Duke Dawson to IR: still plans for him to return.

[condon84]

We should stop drafting DBs in the second round for a while.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I hate the draft. But I also love it. But my god we really don’t seem to have a lot of luck

Welcome to the NFL Draft.

 

[TheRainMaker]

2016-2018 will go down as worse than 2006-2008 drafts

It’s definitely on its way.

 

[Nunchucks]

This is terrible news, another wasted year for an early round draft pick.

 

[Ring 6]

If he is back mid season I see no big deal. Rookie dbs often are not used much early in the season.

 

[RobertWeathers]

This is terrible news, another wasted year for an early round draft pick.

Drama

 

[PlainOldEd]

Already had called it.

Bust.

This now confirms it.

The 2016/17/18 drafts have been nothing short of rancid, fetid Garbage.

I'm putting the # of INTs on Sunday by Justin Reid at 1-1/2.

Thanks Nostradamus.

 

[WinstonSmith]

Not great news but look on the bright side: if he comes back he won't hit the rookie wall until 45 minutes after the super bowl.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Drama

Groundhog day

 

[DaBruinz]

Not sure I follow. Then what do you think is the reason he was traded out of the blue?

JAG wasn't "traded out of the blue". He was traded at the last possible moment the Pats could trade him without using the franchise tag on him and tying up loads of money until a trade DID happen. The Pats had been in that place before and they probably felt they lost out on some potential players would would have helped the team.

 

[DaBruinz]

Chung.

BB has a 39% hit rate on 2nd rounders lasting over 5 years. That's about the league average

BUT.. Butt... BUT.. Capt. Stone and others say that BB sucks at drafting..

 

[DaBruinz]

What a waste.

Yes. You are.. But you insist on haranguing us with your presence....

 

[RobertWeathers]

Groundhog day

There are an unusual amount of IRs but part of me wonders if these kids aren't really all that hurt as a part of the reason is they just aren't physically ready or all that up to speed on the playbook to contribute.

 

[RobertWeathers]

BUT.. Butt... BUT.. Capt. Stone and others say that BB sucks at drafting..

According to Ron Wolff in the era of free agency and the cap, if a GM hits on 2 starters and 2 role players each draft they are doing their job. Before the 1990s and the salary cap and FA a GM needed to hit 1 starter and 1 role player.

So if we look at BBs record the last few years in that framework hes doing fine and we aren't even counting UFAs

2017
Starter: Wise
Role player: Rivers

2016
Starter: Thuney
Role players: Brissett (Dorsett), VV (maybe), MM (maybe), Roberts, Karras

2015
Starters: Brown, Flowers, Mason
Role Players: Grissom, Cardona, Richards (maybe)

2014
Starters: Stork (maybe), White (I consider him a starter),
Role Players: Jimmy, Flemming, Easley (not really but he did play)

2013
Starters: Collins, Ryan, Harmon

2012
Starters: Jones, High
Role Players: Wilson, Ebner, Dennard

2011
Starters: Solder, Vereen, Ridley, Cannon
Role Players: None

 

[WaterfallJumper]

According to Ron Wolff in the era of free agency and the cap, if a GM hits on 2 starters and 2 role players each draft they are doing their job. Before the 1990s and the salary cap and FA a GM needed to hit 1 starter and 1 role player.

So if we look at BBs record the last few years in that framework hes doing fine and we aren't even counting UFAs

2017
Starter: Wise
Role player: Rivers

2016
Starter: Thuney
Role players: Brissett (Dorsett), VV (maybe), MM (maybe), Roberts, Karras

2015
Starters: Brown, Flowers, Mason
Role Players: Grissom, Cardona, Richards (maybe)

2014
Starters: Stork (maybe), White (I consider him a starter),
Role Players: Jimmy, Flemming, Easley (not really but he did play)

2013
Starters: Collins, Ryan, Harmon

2012
Starters: Jones, High
Role Players: Wilson, Ebner, Dennard

2011
Starters: Solder, Vereen, Ridley, Cannon
Role Players: None

While I like your emphasis on starters and role players, my guess is that people's concern stems from how many of those players are not with the team any longer.

2011: Cannon

2012: Hightower

2013: Harmon

2014: White

2015: Brown, Flowers, Mason, Grissom, Cardona

2016: Thuney, VV, Roberts, Karras

2017: Wise, Rivers

2018: ???

I'm a big fan of BB and Caserio as overall roster-builders, but the draft hasn't exactly been exceptional lately. Thankfully, drafting is way overrated, and the Patriots do as good of a job as anyone in filling in the gaps and maintaining a solid "middle class" so to speak in the roster, which is important for depth. I do hope we can convert more draft capital into results for next year, though. It will be important soon to begin to build a new, young core now that many of our vets are older. I just don't think it's as big of a deal as some make it out to be, but it's at least worth monitoring.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Way too early to call that. But the last four drafts before this one have been underwhelming. Furthermore, four of the last five drafts have seen the Patriots' #1 pick lost for the year. Bill is very lucky he's had Brady. That kind of luck (or lack thereof) with the draft would set many teams back years, maybe even a decade. But this team keeps humming along because they have Brady and a solid core of leadership.

If he didn't have Brady he would probably draft differently -- probably more conservatively.

 

[Kontradiction]

If he didn't have Brady he would probably draft differently -- probably more conservatively.

I probably agree with you here but can you elaborate?

 

[RobertWeathers]

While I like your emphasis on starters and role players, my guess is that people's concern stems from how many of those players are not with the team any longer.

2011: Cannon

2012: Hightower

2013: Harmon

2014: White

2015: Brown, Flowers, Mason, Grissom, Cardona

2016: Thuney, VV, Roberts, Karras

2017: Wise, Rivers

2018: ???

I'm a big fan of BB and Caserio as overall roster-builders, but the draft hasn't exactly been exceptional lately. Thankfully, drafting is way overrated, and the Patriots do as good of a job as anyone in filling in the gaps and maintaining a solid "middle class" so to speak in the roster, which is important for depth. I do hope we can convert more draft capital into results for next year, though. It will be important soon to begin to build a new, young core now that many of our vets are older. I just don't think it's as big of a deal as some make it out to be, but it's at least worth monitoring.

Agree 100%.

I'm not sure where the NEP are compared to other teams as it pertains to how long a drafted player stays with its original team. For all I know they could be 1st or 31st. I think that was Wolff's point which because of free agency and how short careers are that FOs need to be very good at replenishing the roster every year whereas in the 60s, 70s and 80s you can miss on 7 of 10 drafts but if you nailed 3 of them you were all set.

There is no doubt BB/Caserio totally screwed the pooch on several picks. Whether they misjudged the player's fit in the system, injury concerns, attitude or physical ability. It doesn't matter. All teams do.

The problem is there are posters who think BB should hit on every pick. The thing is there are many here who do not believe in the fundamental truth the NFL Draft is a crap shoot which is why they think that way. Maybe its an entitlement thing. I dont know.

Overall, I think the NEP are pretty freaking good at acquiring talent. BB has built the pro & college personnel orgs to cover for each other. Some years they'll have drafts that are lacking in talent so they'll put more of an emphasis on FAs or trades. Other years its the opposite or both.

 

[AlexB]

According to Ron Wolff in the era of free agency and the cap, if a GM hits on 2 starters and 2 role players each draft they are doing their job. Before the 1990s and the salary cap and FA a GM needed to hit 1 starter and 1 role player.

So if we look at BBs record the last few years in that framework hes doing fine and we aren't even counting UFAs

2017
Starter: Wise
Role player: Rivers

2016
Starter: Thuney
Role players: Brissett (Dorsett), VV (maybe), MM (maybe), Roberts, Karras

2015
Starters: Brown, Flowers, Mason
Role Players: Grissom, Cardona, Richards (maybe)

2014
Starters: Stork (maybe), White (I consider him a starter),
Role Players: Jimmy, Flemming, Easley (not really but he did play)

2013
Starters: Collins, Ryan, Harmon

2012
Starters: Jones, High
Role Players: Wilson, Ebner, Dennard

2011
Starters: Solder, Vereen, Ridley, Cannon
Role Players: None

I also think Pats drafting record overall is pretty good. But even as your list shows, the early evaluations from the last two drafts haven't been good. 2016 and 2017 seem to have only provided 1 starter each. There's also not much room for this to improve since there are only 2 total draft picks left from 2017. The 2016 draft also looks like it's just Thuney, though losing the 1st round pick really hurts here. 2017 could also look a bit better if you include the Wynn pick as a carryover from the Cooks trade.

2015 and 2014 are both solid drafts. 2015 provided 4 starters (Brown, Flowers, Mason, and Andrews) and 2014 provided 3 (JG, White, and Butler). I'm including JG since Pats got a (higher) 2nd round pick back.

The other issue with recent drafts have been a lack of star power. The 2010 draft resulted a pro bowl CB/ S and a HOF TE. In 2012, Pats got a pro bowl LB and a 1st team All Pro edge rusher. The best they've gotten in the last 4 drafts is Butler, whose no longer with the team. This is especially important because you can always find players who are solid starters or role players through means other than the draft, but if you want difference makers without overpaying for them, you usually need to find them in the draft.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I also think Pats drafting record overall is pretty good. But even as your list shows, the early evaluations from the last two drafts haven't been good. 2016 and 2017 seem to have only provided 1 starter each. There's also not much room for this to improve since there are only 2 total draft picks left from 2017. The 2016 draft also looks like it's just Thuney, though losing the 1st round pick really hurts here. 2017 could also look a bit better if you include the Wynn pick as a carryover from the Cooks trade.

2015 and 2014 are both solid drafts. 2015 provided 4 starters (Brown, Flowers, Mason, and Andrews) and 2014 provided 3 (JG, White, and Butler). I'm including JG since Pats got a (higher) 2nd round pick back.

The other issue with recent drafts have been a lack of star power. The 2010 draft resulted a pro bowl CB/ S and a HOF TE. In 2012, Pats got a pro bowl LB and a 1st team All Pro edge rusher. The best they've gotten in the last 4 drafts is Butler, whose no longer with the team. This is especially important because you can always find players who are solid starters or role players through means other than the draft, but if you want difference makers without overpaying for them, you usually need to find them in the draft.

Yea I didn't even add the UFAs and BB is most likely the GOAT in that dept.