Is This Defense As Good As 2017?

[sambam94]

it better be because the offense won't be

 

[maineman209]

That phrase means a team being judged by media fans and message boards. Obviously teams have good games and bad games.

I've said many times that a perfect pass is almost indefensible. Foles went off dropping balls out of the sky into recievers juggling hands and also a trick play from an illegal formation... The fallout from that game will play out with adjustments and improvements hopefully so that result doesn't happen again...

"New you" DC looks good too.

My point is that it's difficult for me to even think of it as the same team/defense. New DC and less than 50% the same players.

 

[Thelonious]

There are some improvements at the margins - Bentley, interesting young db prospects - but team speed is still lacking and, though it is WAY too early to be definitive about it, I don't see as many "play makers" as great defensive units typically have. I'd call it a Corolla: dull, a little slow, not disappointing but zero excitement and nothing to brag about. A lot depends on injuries, but if (as) injuries come, we won't go from great to good; we'll go from adequate to marginal.

I'm pessimistic about this year, to a degree, which in the sparkly, rarified world of a Pat's fan means they might not play in the Super Bowl this year. We really are spoiled.

 

[mgteich]

There are some improvements at the margins - Bentley, interesting young db prospects - but team speed is still lacking and, though it is WAY too early to be definitive about it, I don't see as many "play makers" as great defensive units typically have. I'd call it a Corolla: dull, a little slow, not disappointing but zero excitement and nothing to brag about. A lot depends on injuries, but if (as) injuries come, we won't go from great to good; we'll go from adequate to marginal.

I'm pessimistic about this year, to a degree, which in the sparkly, rarified world of a Pat's fan means they might not play in the Super Bowl this year. We really are spoiled.

The additions to front six are hardly at the margins.
DE: Clayborne, Rivers, Davis
DL: Shelton
LB: Hightower, Bentley

 

[1960Pats]

My novice opinion so take it fwiw.

I was rewatching the 3rd preseason game vs the Panthers and there is some good defensive stuff the Pats were doing in it.

Some of the game seemed experimental with double stunts etc.. and leaving the edge wide open. But during the end of the first and into the second quarter they looked solid if not great.

1. Shelton looks solid at NT. This is, imo, is the key improvement over last season. He can two gap which means the LB's have less to worry about than they did last season.

2. They moved Malcolm Brown around during the game. Either on the left or right side of Shelton. Looking for match up opportunities during the game. Last season he was asked to be a quasi NT with 3rd down DT's anchoring his left or right side. That didn't work out well.

3. During one series Davis sealed the left side of the line perfectly, Brown pushed the LT back into Cam, Hightower got through a gap and flushed Cam out of the pocket. KVN chased him out of bounds for a two yard gain. It was perfect..

4. During another series they handed off to McCaffery. Their intent was to create a cutback lane but Shelton strong armed the guard, Davis kept the edge sealed by avoiding the TE block, and KVN plugged the lane. MB and Hightower held the left side of the Oline while Wise broke through and Chung maintained the edge. KVN, Shelton, Wise and Davis were in on the tackle.. (See image below)

So I disagree. I think this defense will be better if not much better than last season and give up less points.


I've circled Shelton handling two Oline guys which allows KVN to plug the lane. Good stuff.

This is the kind of stuff that makes this such a great place. The re-watch thread is the best of them all.

I remember having a discussion around here many moons ago about my theory on defense. I believe that all facets of the game are contributors to the defense and control points against, the most important stat. That includes the ST's and the offense. Maybe that's why I feel less confident about the defense than many here.

 

[1960Pats]

The Pats gave up 42 to the Chiefs' RPO attack in week-1. Butler played every snap in that game.

One last time:

Butler's absence was NOT the reason that the Pats lost the Superbowl to Philly's RPO attack. If you disagree, I strongly recommend that you confine your comments to that effect to the Butler Mega-thread.

I was asked the question HERE and I answered it HERE.

 

[Tony2046]

This is the kind of stuff that makes this such a great place. The re-watch thread is the best of them all.

I remember having a discussion around here many moons ago about my theory on defense. I believe that all facets of the game are contributors to the defense and control points against, the most important stat. That includes the ST's and the offense. Maybe that's why I feel less confident about the defense than many here.

Very true. It's a complimentary game.

But it works for the offense "stats" as well. For instance, if the defense is able to generate one extra possession for TB per game it could equalize the theoretical offensive drop off.

But personally I think the defense has improved quite a bit more than that. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

[Thelonious]

The additions to front six are hardly at the margins.
DE: Clayborne, Rivers, Davis
DL: Shelton
LB: Hightower, Bentley

I understand, but it is far from a foregone conclusion that these players are anything other than marginal improvements (if that, in some cases) over last year's players. When you replace a player, you gain what he offers, but you lose what the player he is replacing had to offer. It is easy in our early-season giddiness to forget this.

 

[1960Pats]

Very true. It's a complimentary game.

But it works for the offense "stats" as well. For instance, if the defense is able to generate one extra possession for TB per game it could equalize the theoretical offensive drop off.

But personally I think the defense has improved quite a bit more than that. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

The Pats game was a good example of what we're talking about. The Texan's fumbling on their first play and the fumbled punt by the Pats set up both defenses for some points they didn't deserve.

The defense did look better but it's still early and it was Houston.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The Pats game was a good example of what we're talking about. The Texan's fumbling on their first play and the fumbled punt by the Pats set up both defenses for some points they didn't deserve.

The defense did look better but it's still early and it was Houston.

Houston with Watson at QB put up a ton of points last year.

 

[Snooky97]

Bentley was brilliant all game when he was in. I think he maybe missed one or two plays in coverage and that was it.

Gilmore on Hopkins was completely shut down for the majority of the game. Did give up to penalty’s though but he had a really good game.

Rowe was good as was JJones!

The D-line was very good at times but there was one drive where we got hampered by the run.

All in all it was a very very positive game for the defence.

 

[Nunchucks]

Patriots defense looked a lot better. Guys were co testing catches, players were covered, and the Texans ran a ton of bunch sets that the defense covered well.

And a pass rush on a mobile qb. What?

 

[maineman209]

The D-line was very good at times but there was one drive where we got hampered by the run.

That was in Q4, when time was running out for the Texans. The Pats defense was focused on shutting down Watson's passing with 7-8 players in coverage, which encouraged the Texans to keep going back to the run, over and over, thus burning valuable clock time. I think that was a deliberate tactical decision by the Pats, rather than a fault with the run-D.

 

[Sicilian]

That was in Q4, when time was running out for the Texans. The Pats defense was focused on shutting down Watson's passing with 7-8 players in coverage, which encouraged the Texans to keep going back to the run, over and over, thus burning valuable clock time. I think that was a deliberate tactical decision by the Pats, rather than a fault with the run-D.

And interestingly, despite the run being successful, it worked. Pats forced a punt, and if it wasn't for the muffed return, the game wouldn't have been as close as it was.

 

[Ring 6]

Hard to call the defense anything but excellent when it takes the field once on its own 16 once on its own 17, allows just 10 on those drives and 10 in the other 12 drives it faced.

 

[mosi]

Compared to the first game last year (which I watched again), they did better.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Patriots defense looked a lot better. Guys were co testing catches, players were covered, and the Texans ran a ton of bunch sets that the defense covered well.

And a pass rush on a mobile qb. What?

And knew right off the bat Watson was going to struggle his first game back. It’s going to be a tough year for him and Wentz.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Houston with Watson at QB put up a ton of points last year.

Credit to the defense, but the Watson we saw yesterday was a shell of the Watson from 2017.

 

[Kdo5]

It certainly looked better but the sample size is very small. I don't think Watson is right yet, he needs some time so it wasn't the same guy we were playing last season.

The coverage seemed strong for the most part and the ability to get pressure is always a pretty sight. We'll see if that continues.

 

[Joey007]

Hard to call the defense anything but excellent when it takes the field once on its own 16 once on its own 17, allows just 10 on those drives and 10 in the other 12 drives it faced.

Not to mention keeping points off the board altogether despite Gronk’s fumble giving Houston great field position.