After 53 cutdown thoughts

[captain stone]

That "handful" of games was actually 11.

The Pats may well have won in week-9 @IND, if not for a stupid "behavior penalty" by TE David Thomas on their last possession (the Pats lost 15-18)...

...and if not for Bill running halfway down the sidelines to call time out while Cassell was QB-sneaking his way to a 1st/Goal at the Clots' 5 yard line on a 4th and <1. Very likely a 4-point swing right there...Then deciding to go for a 2-point conversion in the 3RD Feckin Quarter and not make it, which was followed by the Clots making a 2-point conversion on their subsequent TD. Definite 2-point swing there.

And, no, the defense wasn't "exceptional". It ranked 8th in points allowed, 10th in yards allowed and 20th in turnovers generated.

10th in Yards Allowed is indeed exceptional for a Belichick defense.

 

[Urgent]

Similar situation, apparently, last year with the Jets and former 49ers receiver Bruce Ellington:
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/jets-waive-former-49ers-receiver-after-failed-physical
The Jets claimed Ellington on waivers after he was released by the 49ers during preseason, on August 3 2017. He was waived with a failed physical designation on August 5 2017.
He later signed with the Texans on August 11 2017.

Bruce Ellington Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap
This shows Ellington's earnings and cap fees by team. The Jets show up as a line item with $0.
So from this I would assume that the Patriots do not face a salary cap charge of $450K or whatever.

 

[Uptown]

 

[PatsFan2]

No thanks on Maclin take your hamstring cramps elsewhere.

 

[long distance]

significant waste of roster spot confirmed (lost a few guys they probably wanted back in the process..) . uncharacteristically strange move from the start..

 

[Patsgofor4]

significant waste of roster spot confirmed (lost a few guys they probably wanted back in the process..) . uncharacteristically strange move from the start..

A few guys?

 

[long distance]

A few guys?

Congrats on your effort!

(Bolden, Tobin, Izzo's IR-R option, possibly someone lost on waivers etc. - plenty to work with an open spot imo..)

 

[DarrylS]

No, I expect it would be a value-generating transaction, if nothing else, to have a young, intelligent QB with some tools who gets to sit on the bench all year and watch the greatest who ever did it.

If we have to start Hoyer for any extended length of time, consider the season over. It doesn't matter. I'm not trying to be a defeatist, but Hoyer sucks.

We are not built like the Eagles. We will not weather that storm. We're not even built like the Patriots of several years ago who won a handful of games with Matt Cassell at the helm.

FYI when Matt Cassell was the QB of the NEP they went 10-5.. missed the playoffs, but not too shabby for a back up and more than a handful. Cassell has a QB rating of 65.3 that year...

Most teams operate in the here and now for back up QB's and with the exception of the most recent class, most will end their careers as backup QB's...

Guess one of the byproducts of having such a string of excellence is arguing about Hoyer, a career backup, who knows how to execute this offense.. not always pretty, but if #12 goes down he is prepared.

 

[Sicilian]

I don't think this deserves a new thread, so I'll just stick it here. Regarding our WR situation, a thought I had:

When Brandon Cooks went down in the Super Bowl, it was right at the beginning of the 2nd quarter, and we were down 9-3. That means that in three quarters of football, against a top 5 defense, we put up 30 points and the vast majority of the 500+ yards with the following WRs:

Danny Amendola
Chris Hogan
Phillip Dorsett
Matthew Slater

Yikes. This year, after week 4, we'll have:

Julian Edelman
Chris Hogan
Phillip Dorsett
Cordarelle Patterson

Even assuming that Patterson gives you minimal offensive contribution, and/or Dorsett doesn't take any steps forward, I still would rate a healthy Edelman as better overall than Amendola. Which means who we have is almost guaranteed to be better than the group that put up 500+ yards and 30 points on the Eagles in the Super Bowl.

Now, the caveat here is depth. Because last year we were able to sustain the loss of Edelman and eventually Cooks and have that group, so health will be extremely important. But what can mitigate that this year is improvement in year 2 from Dorsett, contribution from Patterson (any really, to improve from Slater in that role), and ANY contribution from the TE2 position, whether it be Allen getting more comfortable or Hollister making a year 2 jump.

Lots to consider once the snaps start for real.

 

[luuked]

Congrats on your effort!

(Bolden, Tobin, Izzo's IR-R option, possibly someone lost on waivers etc. - plenty to work with an open spot imo..)

To quote BB:

“In the end, you’ve got to make the decision that you feel like is best for your football team, and if you really want that player and you just can’t bear to live without them, then you shouldn’t be exposing them to the wire,” he concluded. “That’s the reality of it. We keep an eye on them, but I don’t think it’s an overriding factor. If you’re prepared to waive them, then you’ve got to be prepared to lose them. That’s just the way it is.”

If Izzo or any of the others really were that much of importance then the team would have approached the situation differently. They obviously felt like 2 young WR -- who they were interested in during their drafts -- were more intriguing than the risk of losing the players (or not having the option of bringing them back).

 

[Oswlek]

Congrats on your effort!

(Bolden, Tobin, Izzo's IR-R option, possibly someone lost on waivers etc. - plenty to work with an open spot imo..)

The only one that is even debatable is Izzo, since the others were already released by the time the claim came in.

It's an ultimately inconsequential transaction unless you had a strong attachment to Izzo returning this year.

 

[maineman209]

when Matt Cassell was the QB of the NEP they went 10-5

I credit Cassell for all 11 wins. Brady started week-1, but left the game halfway through Q1 with the score 0-0. The win 17-10 was all Cassell and the rest of the team.

 

[primetime]

Are there people who really think a late 7th round rookie tight end not being able to return midseason (even assuming he'd be physically able to) is a big deal

 

[luuked]

The only one that is even debatable is Izzo, since the others were already released by the time the claim came in.

It's an ultimately inconsequential transaction unless you had a strong attachment to Izzo returning this year.

I mean it is pretty telling that he went to IR based on an ankle injury. It is just another victim of the good old Foxboro flu.

Would it be nice to have simply the option in case of injury to have added depth ? Yeah. But it would not have any substantial impact on the season anyway. Or at least less than getting a look at a young WR had.

 

[long distance]

If Izzo or any of the others really were that much of importance then the team would have approached the situation differently. They obviously felt like 2 young WR -- who they were interested in during their drafts -- were more intriguing than the risk of losing the players (or not having the option of bringing them back).

Its never as simple and we're all just guessing. They always have more wishes than roster spots so every year there's tactics and also some gambling involved in creating final roster, hidden roster, PS etc. Unlike some poster geniuses here BB cares about depth well beyond 53 roster.

Id prefer to have Tobin on the roster right now instead of one of Schwenke or Karras. My guess is Pats would also (before they waived Darboh Tobin was gone). I believe they'd want to bring Bolden back as well. He would be quite important part of week 1 ST puzzle. My guess is they might have underestimated his market and ambition. Just my guess.

Lombardi - as you know - is full of stories losing players they wanted to have/keep (BB incl.) bc they took a “gamble“ (trading down, underestimating market, waiving etc etc)..

___
btw - if they really didn't care about Izzo as late season depth why would they keep him on 52 and not just IR-ed him keeping a precious roster spot for somebody else..

 

[luuked]

Its never as simple and we're all just guessing. They always have more wishes than roster spots so every year there's tactics and also some gambling involved in creating final roster, hidden roster, PS etc. Unlike some poster geniuses here BB cares very much about depth well beyond 53 roster.

Id prefer to have Tobin on the roster right now instead of one of Schwenke or Karras. My guess is Pats would also (before they waived Darboh Tobin was gone). I believe they'd want to bring Bolden back as well. He would be quite important part of week 1 ST puzzle. My guess is they might have underestimated his market and ambition. Just my guess.

Lombardi - as you know - is full of stories losing players they wanted to have/keep (BB incl.) bc they took a “gamble“ (trading down, underestimating market, waiving etc etc)..

I don't disagree with any of this. My point is that they felt obviously stronger about claiming the players than the risk involved in exposing the others. BB & co are clearly fully realistic about how if you waive someone you have to be fine with losing them.

I don't think there is any regret or feeling bad about the entire thing. It simply is what it is.

 

[Oswlek]

Its never as simple and we're all just guessing. They always have more wishes than roster spots so every year there's tactics and also some gambling involved in creating final roster, hidden roster, PS etc. Unlike some poster geniuses here BB cares very much about depth well beyond 53 roster.

Id prefer to have Tobin on the roster right now instead of one of Schwenke or Karras. My guess is Pats would also (before they waived Darboh Tobin was gone). I believe they'd want to bring Bolden back as well. He would be quite important part of week 1 ST puzzle. My guess is they might have underestimated his market and ambition. Just my guess.

You're speaking in generalities as if they apply to this situation. No one questions that Bill would love to keep guys 54-60 around, but the specific argument that the waiver claim somehow cost them Bolden or Tobin lacks substance. Other than Izzo's IR status, every other player you've introduced was transacted prior to being awarded Darboh.

 

[long distance]

You're speaking in generalities as if they apply to this situation. No one questions that Bill would love to keep guys 54-60 around, but the specific argument that the waiver claim somehow cost them Bolden or Tobin lacks substance. Other than Izzo's IR status, every other player you've introduced was transacted prior to being awarded Darboh.

Last year Bolden and Karras were “transacted“ as well before cutdown deadline and they clearly intended to have them back with the team (brought them both back before week 1). This year Bolden's equipment was still in Foxboro a full day after cutdowns which normally indicates general intention of both parties a guy's coming back..

 

[Oswlek]

Last year Bolden and Karras were “transacted“ as well before cutdown deadline and they clearly intended to have them back with the team (brought them both back before week 1). This year Bolden's equipment was still in Foxboro a full day after cutdowns which normally indicates general intention of both parties a guy's coming back..

Of course, but how does this have anything to do with this situation? Are you saying if Darboh hadn't been claimed, Bolden wouldn't have signed with Miami?

 

[long distance]

Of course, but how does this have anything to do with this situation? Are you saying if Darboh hadn't been claimed, Bolden wouldn't have signed with Miami?

1. both managing the bottom of the roster around cutdown deadline. one worked one didn't work. just my guess.
2. no.