The Ryan Izzo makes the 53 thread.

[PP2]

Not making the 53. Sorry, Mrs. Izzo.

 

[Ring 6]

Ok so Dwayne Allen is worth five million to block. But people hand the third TE roster spot to Jacob Hollister as automatic. Is he that proven? Is he that much of a weapon? There are plenty of pass catching RBs as options for this offense. What about another blocking TE, who is not a horrible receiver?

Why not Ryan Izzo?

So you want to cut Allen so we can have worse blocking and boast that we saved money?
Hollister is gaving an excellent camp.

Why not? Because he isn’t as good a blocker as Allen or receiver as Hollister. Pretty simple.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

So you want to cut Allen so we can have worse blocking and boast that we saved money?
Hollister is gaving an excellent camp.

Why not? Because he isn’t as good a blocker as Allen or receiver as Hollister. Pretty simple.

It isn't about "boasting that [the Pats] saved money."

It's that player salary is a finite resource in the NFL, and if you give $5M to Allen, that's $5M you can't use any other way (e.g., extending Trey Flowers).

 

[Ring 6]

It isn't about "boasting that [the Pats] saved money."

It's that player salary is a finite resource in the NFL, and if you give $5M to Allen, that's $5M you can't use any other way (e.g., extending Trey Flowers).

Of course but extending flowers has nothing to do with having a few dollars on this years cap it’s about long range.
$5 mill at this point of the season isn’t a big issue especially for a guy playing 42% of the snaps.

 

[Brady6]

I don’t think it’s 100% that Allen or Gillislee make this roster. I think they are being smart about both and making it appear they are in their plans to maintain value for a late round pick.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Of course but extending flowers has nothing to do with having a few dollars on this years cap it’s about long range.
$5 mill at this point of the season isn’t a big issue especially for a guy playing 42% of the snaps.

That $5M gives him the seventh-highest cap hit on the team.

And, as should have been clear from "e.g.," that was meant as one possibility. The key point is that they can only use that $5M once, and they have to decide if what Allen provides really is worth $5M. I'm not saying they won't see it that way, but I'd be surprised if they did.

 

[Ring 6]

That $5M gives him the seventh-highest cap hit on the team.

And, as should have been clear from "e.g.," that was meant as one possibility. The key point is that they can only use that $5M once, and they have to decide if what Allen provides really is worth $5M. I'm not saying they won't see it that way, but I'd be surprised if they did.

It’s better than losing games because we have to put a lesser player in the role.

There isn’t a lot left to spend the money on.

 

[Tony2046]

I think he had to block better than Allen. 75% is awful.

That's the wrong argument. You're applying that to blocks vs missed blocks instead of duration of blocks. 75% of Allen's blocking might be ok if it's coupled with 150% of his catch rate.

 

[Ring 6]

That's the wrong argument. You're applying that to blocks vs missed blocks instead of duration of blocks. 75% of Allen's blocking might be ok if it's coupled with 150% of his catch rate.

75% of any player is a pathetic player.
Allen’s primary, by far, role is blocking

 

[luuked]

I don’t think it’s 100% that Allen or Gillislee make this roster. I think they are being smart about both and making it appear they are in their plans to maintain value for a late round pick.

To suggest Gillislee and Allen are in the same boat is pretty bold. Just check the snap counts from the first preseason game. Allen more or less finished his evening when the other starters left. Gillislee was still missing lead blocks deep into the fourth quarter.

You are right about neither being 100% but thats true for everyone as injuries can hit at any point. That being said, the writing of where they currently stand is pretty clearly on the wall.

 

[Tony2046]

75% of any player is a pathetic player.
Allen’s primary, by far, role is blocking

So would you say Allen is a better blocker than Gronk?

 

[maineman209]

So would you say Allen is a better blocker than Gronk?

Hard to say. The percentage of Gronk's snaps that is devoted to blocking is far less than Allen's. It seems like Gronk blocks with way more flair, but that may be due to the fact that TV broadcast directors focus on Gronk while ignoring other players. This is especially true in the pre-season, when the camera director is likely to show Gronk on the sideline picking his nose, even while Allen may be in the process of blowing up three would-be tacklers in succession.

 

[DarrylS]

It is less about money, but more about who adds the greatest benefit to this team..

With that being said his contract should be tweaked to lower the salary cap hit..

 

[Family]

The backup TE spots have to be more competitive than people think.

Isn't the team mantra versatility? Does Dwayne Allen do anything, but block? Can he play special teams? For many suggesting his cap hit might lead the team in another direction is unthinkable. One poster listed the comment as "funny."

Jacob Hollister has four career catches for 42 yards and I haven't seen one roster that does not have him listed. Is his spot so secure?

This should be a thread, but instead the title should be, "Tight End position - who other than Gronk is safe?"

Posters are quick to cut Eric Rowe or Jason McCourty, and keep one of their binky CBs. I thought Ryan Izzo looked better than all undrafted CBs in the actual game. And I think the current candidates at backup TE position are thinner than backup CB.

Why not Ryan Izzo?

 

[luuked]

Does Dwayne Allen do anything, but block

Does Hogan do anything other than catch the ball? Does Shaq Mason do anything else than block linemen? Does Gilmore do anything but cover?

For many suggesting his cap hit might lead the team in another direction is unthinkable. One poster listed the comment as "funny."

It is funny because his cap hit literally does not matter. I explained it already once to you and I will do it a second time. There are two options:


a) The Pats think it is not an issue. Then it literally is not a problem unless you think you know those things better than BB and Caserio.

b) It is a problem and they will approach him about reducing it (most probably via incentives). And he will agree and then be on the roster.

Why will he agree? Because otherwise he gets zero (except for what the CBA requires for camp & co) AND is a FA at the worst possible time.

At this point right now his contract does not matter because there are no guarantees.

I thought Ryan Izzo looked better than all undrafted CBs in the actual game.

Thats your right but by not being aware why blocking is important or why Allen is valuable despite his dismal receiving numbers you have kinda made it clear that you dont know how to judge TEs beyond the shallowest fantasy football kind of way: catch and receive.


Izzo has not stood out at all during the first 10 days of practices and then had a some positive snaps with the 3s against the WSH 3s.

I am almost scared to ask about your WR evaluation because if you apply the same rules you would be arguing to keep Lucien over everyone else.


On a final note. In case you are not a troll but a sincere poster that just doesn't understand things beyond the surface yet. Go and spent 10min a day reading up on football (or watch yt clips explaining it) and in a short while you will realize that most people miss 80% of whats happening because they only focus on the ball. But this game is so much more than that and requires everyone to do their jobs in tandem. That is what makes it complex and beautiful to watch and analyze.

11 players, 1 fist.

 

[Snooky97]

Allen is a monster in the run game. The other thing is he’s not here to catch and score TDs. He’s here to block and support the run game. If he catches some TDs then it’s a bonus but if he doesn’t then ah well. They are still going to have to put someone on him as he’s previously proven to be a realistic target

 

[Ring 6]

So would you say Allen is a better blocker than Gronk?

No. Why does that matter? We are talking about the blocking TE2

 

[Family]

Does Hogan do anything other than catch the ball? Does Shaq Mason do anything else than block linemen? Does Gilmore do anything but cover?

I don't get the comparison. Hogan is a starting WR and your #1 option opening day, Gilmore is your shutdown corner, while Mason is an OL. Dwayne Allen is a backup TE who makes more than 2 out of the three.

It is funny because his cap hit literally does not matter. I explained it already once to you and I will do it a second time. There are two options:


a) The Pats think it is not an issue. Then it literally is not a problem unless you think you know those things better than BB and Caserio.

b) It is a problem and they will approach him about reducing it (most probably via incentives). And he will agree and then be on the roster.

Why will he agree? Because otherwise he gets zero (except for what the CBA requires for camp & co) AND is a FA at the worst possible time.

At this point right now his contract does not matter because there are no guarantees

What is funny is that you know the Pats think the cap hit is not an issue. How does anyone know what the Pats are thinking? Have you been around this team for more than ten minutes?

Somehow the fact that they can cut bait with no guarantees means to you that they are more likely to keep Allen. That flexibility may be what BB and Caserio might like. Nice spin.

On a final note. In case you are not a troll but a sincere poster that just doesn't understand things beyond the surface yet. Go and spent 10min a day reading up on football (or watch yt clips explaining it) and in a short while you will realize that most people miss 80% of whats happening because they only focus on the ball. But this game is so much more than that and requires everyone to do their jobs in tandem. That is what makes it complex and beautiful to watch and analyze.

You think you know more than you do. I'm not saying Allen isn't a good, maybe great blocker, but it's all about tradeoffs. We don't know what else the team can do with the cap savings and neither do you. Did you see Jamie Collins or Logan Mankins being traded?

How many surprises do you need to not answer in this arrogant tone that you know all?

 

[Sicilian]

I don’t think it’s 100% that Allen or Gillislee make this roster. I think they are being smart about both and making it appear they are in their plans to maintain value for a late round pick.

I don't think Allen is a lock either. It's more that I haven't seen anything (through our limited viewports) to make me think Izzo has beat him out.

Also on this topic in general, Allen being cut wouldn't automatically mean Izzo made the team. We've seen Belichick leave the cupboard pretty bare at some positions if he doesn't think anyone is really up to snuff. It's how we ended up with Wilson and Ebner getting significant safety reps their rookie year. If Allen isn't worth the money and Izzo doesn't step up, he'll go with 2 TE's (assuming Hollister is the real deal) and carry an extra OL, maybe use Wynn as the big TE like Solder did his rookie year. There's a lot of permutations that could shake out.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't get the comparison. Hogan is a starting WR and your #1 option opening day, Gilmore is your shutdown corner, while Mason is an OL. Dwayne Allen is a backup TE who makes more than 2 out of the three.

Yes those are not good comparisons because hogan has to block, Gilmore has to play run d and mason has to run and pass block.
However Allen is a much more specialized role.

What is funny is that you know the Pats think the cap hit is not an issue. How does anyone know what the Pats are thinking? Have you been around this team for more than ten minutes?

Somehow the fact that they can cut bait with no guarantees means to you that they are more likely to keep Allen. That flexibility may be what BB and Caserio might like. Nice spin.

I think what he said is that if they believe the cap hit is an issue they will force a pay cut on him and he had little bargaining power.

You think you know more than you do. I'm not saying Allen isn't a good, maybe great blocker, but it's all about tradeoffs. We don't know what else the team can do with the cap savings and neither do you. Did you see Jamie Collins or Logan Mankins being traded?

How many surprises do you need to not answer in this arrogant tone that you know all?

Yes there are way too many wannabe coaches/scouts on this board who try to act as if they are analytical savants and talk down to people. Fact is most are just opinionated and want to demean posters. Don’t let it get to you.

As far as this thread, you started a thread announcing Izzo to the 53 when he is a very big long shot with 2 players in front of him that are entrenched and much better at their specialty than he is.
Your comment that Hollister caught 4 passes last year so that’s all he is ignores an understanding of what is going on with the player the rave reports of his development plus his solid role as a core special teamer.
As far as Allen I don’t think a blocking TE, which is a true position in our offense is going to be beaten out for that job by versatility.

Allen isn’t necessarily a lock but to be beaten out you would have to have a better blocker or a very close one with lots of upside.