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2018 Training Camp Thread - Days 4 & 5 (7/29-30/18)


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I feel the need to say if Jonathan Jones didn't get hurt against Tennessee, we win the super bowl. He'd have made the big tackle Bademosi missed.

I really hope he comes back healthy and keeps up his great play from last year.
 
Not concerned about this offense at all. I am concerned about this defense
 
I feel the need to say if Jonathan Jones didn't get hurt against Tennessee, we win the super bowl. He'd have made the big tackle Bademosi missed.

I really hope he comes back healthy and keeps up his great play from last year.
Wondering if Jones will start the season on PUP.
 
....C. Jones as a PR which is where there were heading when he got hurt last preseason.

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Best O Line we’ve had in a long time
 
They needed better run defense, no question. And they needed better, and deeper, CB play, too. Basically, it would have been nice if the defense had bothered to at least show up for the game.
No doubt. When your job is to stop the pass, you’d better be able to stop the pass come hell or high water, and without any excuses.

I just think that the struggle against the RPO offense was the root of the issue on the defense in the SB, and that the KC and JAX games helped PHI to keep the Pats off balance. Once you’re off balance, guessing wrong, etc, it can lead to a chain reaction of blown assignments, mismatches and the like. I don’t think the pass defense was nearly as bad as those three games suggest, but I wouldn’t argue against the idea that they needed to improve in order to win the SB, either. We certainly saw the pass D struggle at other points last season, too.

As happy as I am about the additions vs the run, I’m still a bit concerned that they haven’t improved the secondary. Gilmore isn’t likely going to have a better year than 2017, Butler’s obviously gone, and I’m not really that high on either one of Rowe or McCourty.
 
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Well if someone with the big hit/miss record of opinions of Captain Stone criticizes someone like Chatham who at the very least can at least back everything up he is saying with sound reasoning and not just stupid gut feeling or ******ed contrarionism then the entire thing becomes just absurdly funny.

I would love to see how Chatham takes trolls like him apart within a minute and exposes their general lack of football iq.
Interesting to observe that Matt the PR flak didn't mention 3 other top-100 draft picks for the defense: Glitch Richards, GeeNo Gruesome and Cyrus the Virus. Hmm, I wonder why...

So who's trolling whom again?
 
Jesus can we wait at least until after the second preseason game when the team has double digit practices in them to judge players?

Except injuries nothing that could have happened so far matters or constitutes a trend. People already writing off players is just absolutely insane. Especially when it comes from those that dont even attended said practices but just scan discussion on Twitter or on boards.

Keep it in your pants for another 10 days folks.
 
Chatham's ball-washing gets more pronounced every year. Comparing Shelton's situation to Chandler Jones' and Collins'...yeah right.
Between that and his "non-football" comments, no wonder I have him removed from the twitter feed sidebar.

I read this comment as I was scrolling without knowing who wrote it.

It's telling that I guessed, scrolled up and was proved right.
 
Interesting to observe that Matt the PR flak didn't mention 3 other top-100 draft picks for the defense: Glitch Richards, GeeNo Gruesome and Cyrus the Virus. Hmm, I wonder why...

So who's trolling whom again?

Why would he mention them ? I don't even get your point here.
 
Wondering if Jones will start the season on PUP.


JJ together with Ebner, Slater and Cyrus was reportedly doing intensive work on the rehab field and the feeling is they might join the practice soon. Losing entire TC and another 6 weeks of regular season practices would hardly be a recipe for JJ to make the team, at least on D, so hopefully he is back asap.


As happy as I am about the additions vs the run, I’m still a bit concerned that they haven’t improved the secondary. Gilmore isn’t likely going to have a better year than 2017, Butler’s obviously gone, and I’m not really that high on either one of Rowe or McCourty.


IMO Gilmore is very likely to have a better season than last year (baring injury) where he struggled individually and collectively esp. in the first part of the season. Butler struggled throughout the season to the bitter end and Rowe wasn't much of a factor outside or in. As mentioned JJ made a nice progress and stepped up in the slot but was still struggling on slants and could struggle with RPOs as well.

Its really too early to say they haven't improved secondary. They have quite solid competition for #2 outside CB in Rowe, J-Mac, JC Jackson, R.Lewis and Crossen, they drafted best slot DB (also acc. to PFF fwiw) in Dawson and if he shows up his first season that will be a huge upgrade to slot defending. I agree its a lot of ifs at CB at the moment but its still a long way to the games that matter.

We all would love to see better backups at safety but look around the league how many teams have better top 3 safeties and who battles for the backup S/core ST spots..

LBNL - Improved run D can offer significant steps to better secondary play and seems like DE position will be stronger as well. And Flores' reportedly simplified, faster D - so lets see how it pans out.

Hopefully my writing is not too optimistic..;)
 
I read this comment as I was scrolling without knowing who wrote it.

It's telling that I guessed, scrolled up and was proved right.

Why would he mention them ? I don't even get your point here.
It's not jealousy. It's not because BB got the job instead of himself. It's not because Parcells is not coming through that door (again). It's not because the sun'll come up tomorrow. It's not because everyone over the age of 4 has a mobile phone. It's not because of those darned kids' loud music. It's not. It's really not. It's because he cares too much and man, what a beautiful morning....hey, honey, is the coffee ready?
 
3 million is a lot to pay a backup CB who doesn’t play special teams. Plus, the Patriots have exposed some promising DBs to waivers the last couple of years and lost a couple of them. With Rowe and J. McCourty being free agents after the season, I’d keep the best of the two and keep the best two of Crossen, Jackson, AJ Moore along with J. Jones if he’s ready when the season starts or C. Jones as a PR which is where there were heading when he got hurt last preseason.

The Patriots defense did give up 161 yards on 27 carries in the Super Bowl. But, half those yards came on two runs: the Blount touchdown and the long Ajayi run. The Eagles running game was not the deciding factor in the game. The telling statistic was: 12-18. The Eagles converted on 2/3 of their 3rd or 4th down plays. And, not to beat a dead horse, but many of those conversions especially in the 2nd half were converted by attacking the matchup of a Strong Safety covering a quality WR even on obvious passing downs and the total mismatch of a 5’10” 195 lbs free safety trying to cover an athletic 6’4” 250 TE.

The Pats have often kept "$3M veterans" on the roster as backups in "young" units - as insurance. It didn't turn out to be beneficial with David Harris last season, but it has in the past.

Cy Jones (ACL) has had a full rookie season in 2016, and then 2017 Camp (before his injury) to establish himself as a viable PR or STer or DB, and hasn't really done much to accomplish that. He hasn't been back on the field yet this Camp, and his time is probably running out (if it hasn't already). At this point, I'd say he's the least likely to make the 53-man roster (although possibly the Psquad), but I'd be pleasantly surprised if he's a "tough cut" by the end of Camp.

Right now, and until JJ (foot injury) gets back on the field and shows what he has, it seems likely that Gilmore, Dawson and Rowe would be the top-3. Assuming that JJ is close to where he was at the end of 2017, that leaves ...

JMac (9 years experience)
Crossen (rookie)
Lewis (1-yr Psquad)
Wiltz (1-yr Psquad)
JC Jackson (rookie)

... competing for the fifth and final CB spot.

Injuries, perhaps for extended periods, are pretty much a certainty with the CB unit (especially with Rowe, it seems). Whoever is chosed for that fifth spot will be integral to the injury contingency plan. Last year, the Pats had JJ (1-yr active roster experience), and Bademosi (5-yrs active roster experience and about 300 snaps at CB, including 3 starts). JMac is the only candidate for the fifth spot who offers any live-fire NFL experience whatsoever.

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When the DL is a sieve, a legitimate threat to run tends to make everyone else on the defense hesitate, including pass-rushers and mmbers of the secondary. The RPO was specifically designed to create and exploit that hesitation.

When that run-D deficient defense also has lmited personnel at LB capable of both coverage and run-D, it's only logical to compensate by using predominantly safeties in the secondary to help out against the run.

In the Superbowl, Foles and the Eagles coaches used their RPO run threat perfectly against a defense that simply didn't have the personnel anywhere on the roster who were capable of dealing with it effectively. There were no substitutions or adjustments available that would have made any difference.

This is the very last time I'll be addressing the subject. I'm on to 2018.
 
I feel the need to say if Jonathan Jones didn't get hurt against Tennessee, we win the super bowl. He'd have made the big tackle Bademosi missed.

I really hope he comes back healthy and keeps up his great play from last year.
Agree. It certainly wouldn’t have made Butler’s benching as big a deal as it was.
 
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