Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[RobertWeathers]

So he accidentally had worse players play?

Are you implying BB put other players in even though he knew MB would give him a better chance of winning the SB?

 

[Ring 6]

So he accidentally had worse players play?

He put the players out there that were the best ON THAT DAY

 

[RobertWeathers]

If you're putting a lesser player out there when a better player at the same position is now healthy and ready to go

You are assuming MB was healthy enough to play and execute the defensive game plan.

you're intentionally putting a lesser unit out there and are therefore intentionally making the team weaker.

If i'm a rock band and my lead guitarist was sick as a dog or had a sprained hand and can maybe play 1-2 songs or a couple of frets do I play the lead guitarist and let him screw up the whole show or do I pick a roadie to play the whole set list? Iin that scenario I am not intentionally making the band worse. I am trying to keep the show going and do the best we can.

His fault was thinking that the team, as a whole, could still get the job done and the offense would be able to bail them out. They almost did.

This is 100% truth. Bill thought the sum of the parts could overcome a less than 100% Malcolm. The logic was faulty.

 

[chasa]

Are you implying BB put other players in even though he knew MB would give him a better chance of winning the SB?

Yes.

If he thought those other players were better then butler, Butler wouldn't have had 98% of the snaps up until the superbowl.

Butler went from 98% to 0% in the two weeks between the AFCCG and the superbowl.

The patriots gave up 41 points, and at no point did Butler go in for a single snap on defense.

That is to me, a huge, out of character error by BB.

When Arrington wasn't getting it done he put someone else in.

When Bademosi/Rowe/Jones were not getting it done, butler continued to sit on the bench.

 

[Kontradiction]

The results of the game don't determine right or wrong here. What Butler did does.

The results of the game and how the game played out certainly do determine right or wrong here. Unless you want to make a case that team “discipline” should be priority number one and not fielding your best players to win the Super Bowl.

I justify very easily by pointing out that it is Butler's fault and that he obviously did something that BB deemed warranted benching.

You haven’t actually justified anything at all. You’ve tossed out rumors from a source that are shaky at best when everything is taken into consideration and now you’re assuming that it was a behavioral issue when the only thing we know is that it was because Butler was sick in the lead up to the game. That said, neither a behavioral issue nor Butler’s illness in the lead up to the game excuses the action (or inaction) when you take into account that Butler dressed, played on ST, and then got signed to a very lucrative deal by a team with which Belichick has a close working relationship. The only thing you’ve done here is fall back on some variation of IBBIT which has gotten taken apart thoroughly in this thread.

That's just disingenuous to say your not a fan of BB or Brady just the laundry.

This is an exceptionally flimsy straw man in that I’ve never claimed that I’m not a fan of either. My allegiance is to the laundry first and them second. In that regard, it’s why it’s easy for me to point out mistakes by either while still rooting for them in the end. Another problem in this forum is that either A) people have become fans of the men before the laundry over time or B) people were never fans of the team and just latched onto them because their admired either Belichick or Brady. Because of that, people such as yourself can’t logically compute that being critical of something like this =/= no longer being a fan of the coach. That’s why, when this team hits the skids, the first people to bolt and never be heard from around here again will be those people.

But I will say that I guess a valid answer is that the laundry means more to you. Still got to be tough rooting for the laundry when you think the HC will bench anyone for no warranted reason.

This is another flimsy straw man. I believe Belichick thought that the reason was warranted. He wouldn’t have made the call otherwise. The problem is... he was wrong. The results of the incorrect decision he made on top of a failure to reconsider at halftime resulted in a 41 point output by the opponent and the Patriots being in the locker room as the confetti fell on the Eagles in spite of a all time great performance by the offense.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

Bravo on the title change.

Regards,
Chris

 

[Kontradiction]

You are assuming MB was healthy enough to play and execute the defensive game plan.

IF he wasn’t healthy enough to play, then why did he dress at all? What was different about this game plan vs the other game plans that Butler was a part of? Be specific. Why has this team had a history of bringing veterans in mid-week just to give them a ton of snaps that Sunday?

If i'm a rock band and my lead guitarist was sick as a dog or had a sprained hand and can maybe play 1-2 songs or a couple of frets do I play the lead guitarist and let him screw up the whole show or do I pick a roadie to play the whole set list? Iin that scenario I am not intentionally making the band worse. I am trying to keep the show going and do the best we can.

If the lead guitarist is clearly better and ready to go, you’re intentionally making the band worse if you go with a roadie.

This is 100% truth. Bill thought the sum of the parts could overcome a less than 100% Malcolm. The logic was faulty.

There you go. So we’re in agreement.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Butler himself said he knew he would have a lesser role. I suspect McCourty knew as well and it wasn't just damage control.

“The week in New England, I knew I’d have a lesser role,” Butler said. “As the week kept going on there with the practices in Minnesota, it was even less.”

Mississippi native Malcolm Butler benched by the Patriots, made rich by the Titans in NFL free agency

Rowe was practicing as the #2 corner.




I've already said I don't think Butler violated any curfew or that his benching was a punishment. I think it was based on his practice performance and gameplan. BB's past decision making history allows me to trust or not trust the man himself. It's a pretty simple concept. I know what his "shocking" decisions in the past have netted and will continue to trust his decision making process. It doesn't mean he's never wrong it just means that I trust that his decisions are more right than anyone else's has ever been.

You have to apply that "logic" to every aspect of your life at some level. You don't have any sources you'd trust? Mike Reiss over Trollin Volin?

BB made a decision. We don't know why.



In principle I agree. But it sounds like what the Viking's #1 or #2 (depending on your trusted source ) top defensive unit tried to do and they got torched. Nick Foles had the post season of his life. Their offensive line played extremely well. I think that's what led to the game plan we saw.

We also don't know what Butler looked like in practice. BB does and made a decision. I think he thought they the right personnel on the field to slow them down enough for Tom Brady. Would they have had they changed their game plan? I don't know.



Oh I agree. Richards, the Marsh experiment, Branch's retirement tour, injuries etc.. severely hurt the team. I think it hurt Butler and the secondary as well. When the QB gets extra time to throw it can make the secondary look like ****.



This is hindsight analysis. The game plan almost worked. They held them to one punt and two field goals (I'm not counting the last one). They got a turnover and almost survived a couple of iffy calls, a missed field goal, a missed extra point and a couple of concussions.

Would've Butler made the difference? You say he would have but I think it would have just allowed them to run more but admit we'll never know.

Really good stuff Kontra as always. I'm not saying you're wrong because you make very solid points but I'm not going to call it a "huge" mistake because I don't know how Butler was practicing or whatever but I will admit that I wish that he had played more than 0 defensie snaps if not only to know why he wasn't starting.

Fair enough. Let’s say Butler knew as the week went on that he would play less. Two years ago against seattle he would have figured the same thing. But then Arrington stunk up the joint and butler was pressed into action. To me if it wasn’t a health issue, wasn’t a huge violation of team rules then why wasn’t he pressed into action in half#2?

 

[Ring 6]

Yes.

If he thought those other players were better then butler, Butler wouldn't have had 98% of the snaps up until the superbowl.

Butler went from 98% to 0% in the two weeks between the AFCCG and the superbowl.

The patriots gave up 41 points, and at no point did Butler go in for a single snap on defense.

That is to me, a huge, out of character error by BB.

When Arrington wasn't getting it done he put someone else in.

When Bademosi/Rowe/Jones were not getting it done, butler continued to sit on the bench.

Jones?

 

[captain stone]

Bill owes Shank and the media nothing.

He still owes all of the season ticket holders - hell, he still owes EVERY SINGLE FECKIN PERSON who bought merchandise, concessions, parking space, single-game tickets last season - an explanation.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yes.

If he thought those other players were better then butler, Butler wouldn't have had 98% of the snaps up until the superbowl.

Butler went from 98% to 0% in the two weeks between the AFCCG and the superbowl.

The patriots gave up 41 points, and at no point did Butler go in for a single snap on defense.

That is to me, a huge, out of character error by BB.

When Arrington wasn't getting it done he put someone else in.

When Bademosi/Rowe/Jones were not getting it done, butler continued to sit on the bench.

You seem to forget Malcolm saying he was sick and not 100% locked in going into the Super Bowl.

If he was 100% fine I'm sure he would have started.

 

[Ring 6]

You seem to forget Malcolm saying he was sick and not 100% locked in going into the Super Bowl.

If he was 100% fine I'm sure he would have started.

People don’t want to hear this because then they can’t cry about decisions.

 

[captain stone]

How did Bill's ego ensure the Patriots lose the Super Bowl? Be specific. in the 18 seasons coaching this team when has Bill let his ego get in the way of winning?

4th and 13?

4th and 2?

The Safety?

Stork instead of Andrews?

 

[chasa]

You seem to forget Malcolm saying he was sick and not 100% locked in going into the Super Bowl.

If he was 100% fine I'm sure he would have started.

i hate to rehash this for the 15 millionth time but if what we got was a 100% locked in defense, I'd rather have seen what a sick no locked in butler would have done in the second half.

Do you think Brady was 100% going into the Jax game with a 3 inch long, one inch deep gash on his throwing hand? Somehow he still manned the **** up when it was game time and got it done.

There is no logical reason to dress and have active a player that took 98% of the defensive snaps during the season, and for him to not see a single snap in a game where the defense gives up 41 points and almost 600 yards.

Zero.
NONE.

 

[Ring 6]

He still owes all of the season ticket holders - hell, he still owes EVERY SINGLE FECKIN PERSON who bought merchandise, concessions, parking space, single-game tickets last season - an explanation.

No he does not.

 

[Ring 6]

4th and 13?

4th and 2?

The Safety?

Stork instead of Andrews?

How is any of that ego?

 

[QuantumMechanic]

789 to go!

 

[RobertWeathers]

IF he wasn’t healthy enough to play, then why did he dress at all? What was different about this game plan vs the other game plans that Butler was a part of? Be specific. Why has this team had a history of bringing veterans in mid-week just to give them a ton of snaps that Sunday?

BB has sat players who were less than 100% before and/or played them on a limited basis. I'm not rehashing every possible scenario. He played one snap and he said he wasn't 100%

IIf the lead guitarist is clearly better and ready to go, you’re intentionally making the band worse if you go with a roadie.

But he isn't.

There you go. So we’re in agreement.

Sure

 

[RobertWeathers]

He still owes all of the season ticket holders - hell, he still owes EVERY SINGLE FECKIN PERSON who bought merchandise, concessions, parking space, single-game tickets last season - an explanation.

Nope.

 

[RobertWeathers]

i hate to rehash this for the 15 millionth time but if what we got was a 100% locked in defense, I'd rather have seen what a sick no locked in butler would have done in the second half.

Everyone would have. Including myself.

Do you think Brady was 100% going into the Jax game with a 3 inch long, one inch deep gash on his throwing hand? Somehow he still manned the **** up when it was game time and got it done.

Brady said he was fine. Malcolm said he wasn't.

There is no logical reason to dress and have active a player that took 98% of the defensive snaps during the season, and for him to not see a single snap in a game where the defense gives up 41 points and almost 600 yards.

Zero.
NONE.

There are plenty. Competitive advantage. Last minute assessment of Malcolm's health. Gameplan. Matchups. Some are plausible. Some are nonsensical. Some are potentially plain 'ole brain farts by BB.