Patriots Rumor Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[ralmat55]

I would say his approach to leadership and authority has worked out pretty well since he came here.

I prefer to not dishonor the man by treating him differently than he treats others. There are no lifetime achievement awards in Bill Belichick’s world and no one is above criticism.

There’s a fine line between the need to discipline and the need to control. The Walker and Seymour examples I gave earlier are instances where, I believe, he overreacted because he was on the wrong side of that line. The former didn’t help an offense that could have used a strong start to push back the bully that fueled Rex Ryan’s defense. The latter damaged a relationship with the best and most influential defensive player of his tenure as coach.

I’m sure there are many more instances of this over the years of which we are not aware. Perhaps, it explains why he got rid of his entire safety group that season without adequate replacements. For the life of me, I can’t remember what season it was, but that defense never recovered from that purge of experience and talent.

I’m not a psychologist or anything but I’m just reading from the book of Bill Belichick’s past. He’s been in the league for 40 years and during that time he developed a reputation as a petty and vindictive guy with a temper who sometimes let his temper as well as his need to be in control get in the way of his judgement.

That reputation explained why it took so long for him to get a HC job in the first place despite his brilliance as the DC of the NY Giants. He lived up to his negative reputation in Cleveland and if the franchise didn’t leave for Cleveland, he would have been ridden out of town anyway.

Personalities rarely change dramatically though one’s life. You are what you are. Success is the very best mascara and perfume. It hides blemishes and odors. Thankfully for Belichick and all of us, he obtained success with the Patriots very early and sustained it thanks in no small part to his QB for all those years.

HOF Coach Belichick is still Cleveland Bill. We’ve just looked past his mistakes and forgave them because of the success, but he still sometimes acts out of anger and need to control and not in the best interest of his team’s chances of winning. Belichick’s just human folks. Realizing that truly allows you to celebrate his accomplishments.

 

[signbabybrady]

I didn’t say that. You did. Your response when I brought that quote up was to tell me that his words aren’t what he REALLY meant. That literally means he lied to his players. You want me to Venmo you some money for a dictionary so you can figure out what the word “lie” means?

Who the hell cares if he lies

 

[Kontradiction]

Who the hell cares if he lies

You seem to. But if wasn’t right in what he said, then explain to me why (going back 10 years) Tomlin has two rings, Gary Kubiak has a ring, and Mike McCarthy has a ring. Those are not good coaches and yet they were able to get over the top. Why could that be?

 

[Tony2046]

The only reasons I can see for benching Butler for the entire game and therefore making the entire defense a weakness (since the secondary was the strength) also involve not dressing him at all and possibly booting him off the team. Being sick is not a good reason for benching him the entire game after getting a whole half to digest that your defense was getting picked apart. Missing a flight is not a good reason for benching him the entire game after getting a whole half to digest that your defense was getting picked apart. Getting into a verbal altercation with the coaching staff (especially when Brady has done the same in the past... ON CAMERA) is not a good reason for benching him the entire game after getting a whole half to digest that your defense was getting picked apart. Missing curfew is not a good reason for benching him the entire game after getting a whole half to digest that your defense was getting picked apart. Being drunk and/or smoking a little weed in Minnesota is not a good reason for benching him the entire game after getting a whole half to digest that your defense was getting picked apart.

This is all ESPECIALLY considering the fact that you’re letting the guy go in the offseason. You bench him for a quarter. Maybe a half even. Then you do what you set out to in the NFL. Your ultimate goal as a head coach: win the Super Bowl. You simply cannot do that without fielding your BEST players and unless you want to make the argument that Rowe or Bademosi were better than Butler (which I’ll dismantle with ease), Belichick didn’t do that.

We don't know what the reason was but do know BB had one. It's the same coach that has made some "shocking" decisions in the past. It's the same coach that did not call a timeout with a minute left in Super Bowl 49 for which he would've been roasted for if they had not won. It's his coaching style that has netted 8 Super Bowl trips thus far. His decisions don't always work out but they do far more than any other coach in NFL history. He had a reason whether we agree with it or not but that reason was a product of his coaching style.

If you want to speculate and say that benching Butler cost them the Super Bowl I'll counter that with it is those type of decisions, that coaching style that has won 5. That decision and others have set the tone for future seasons.

 

[chasa]

Who the hell cares if he lies

So you are angry if someone says he lied(Which is what you said he did)

But then when someone correctly points out that your logic seems to say that he lied it turns into.. oh well who cares if he lied.

Make up your mind please.

 

[chasa]

We don't know what the reason was but do know BB had one.

And thus we have this thread, Where instead of posting in every single thread where the Butler scenerio could be brought up, we consolidate all our grievences and confusion here.

Until there is concrete information for why BB dressed. activated, and then benched for 100% of the defense snaps the #2 CB, this thread and honestly this topic, will NEVER go away. Anytime i player steps out of line and doesn't get punished, Butler will be brought up. Anytime a player steps out of line and gets punished slightly Butler will be brought up. Anytime Butler picks off brady when he's targeting jules, Butler will be brought up and wishful thinking about what COULD have been if we had put butler in after half time to cover the speedier guys chung has trouble with, which would have allowed chung to cover the bigger guys that our third strings struggle with, which might have completely changed the superbowl.

 

[aluminum seats]

We don't know why he benched Butler or if benching him cost the Patriots a super bowl. We do know he had a reason.

That decision was a product of BB's coaching style or system. He had a reason to bench Butler. Was it because of his performance in practice, something he said, being late or a combination of things? I don't know. I do know it's how he coaches and it has netted the team 8 trips to the Super Bowl resulting in 5 wins and 3 losses.

It's the same coaching style that chose to trade Collins and Jones, bench Tom Brady, not call a timeout at the end of SB 49, and a slew of other things that have been or could have been clickbait fodder in the past. This was no different.

His coaching style, whether we like all of the decisions or not, has led this team on a ridiculous two decade long run. Those decisions, whether we agree with them or not, set a tone for the entire team and for future players who decided to sign here. That tone, that environment and those decisions are the foundation to why they have won or been to so many big games. It's why veterans who want to win a championship come here.

It's not perfect but it is definitely historically great.

You say, "things can change over time". What changed? They just lost in a Super Bowl. They just made it to their 7th straight AFCCG. That's an insane accomplishment. And yes Tom Brady has "covered up some mistakes" or "carried" the team but BB has covered up or carried as well. It has been the perfect tandem.

If it's true that something has changed or "they hate their coach" or "the cliff" or "BB has lost his locker room" stuff is finally becoming true then it's been a hell of a ride but I think there's still more to come. The players they signed this offseason are coming here knowing BB's reputation and they also know that if they fall in line they'll have a chance at a championship. And I'll bet whatever it was that got Butler benched won't be something those players will do.

I appreciate the amount of time that went into this post, so I feel like it’s worth a response. But honestly, all you’re really saying is that Belichick has had tremendous success, therefore we can’t say that he screwed up. The problem is, he did.

 

[Tony2046]

I appreciate the amount of time that went into this post, so I feel like it’s worth a response. But honestly, all you’re really saying is that Belichick has had tremendous success, therefore we can’t say that he screwed up. The problem is, he did.

No that's not entirely what I'm saying. I'm saying BB has had tremendous success because of the way he coaches. The decision to bench Butler is a part or a product of the way he coaches. It has resulted in 12 AFCCG's over the last 18 years. Fans and players know, more so now I'd guess, that BB is consistent and that he'll bench you if you give him the reason to even during a SB.

 

[Tony2046]

And thus we have this thread, Where instead of posting in every single thread where the Butler scenerio could be brought up, we consolidate all our grievences and confusion here.

Until there is concrete information for why BB dressed. activated, and then benched for 100% of the defense snaps the #2 CB, this thread and honestly this topic, will NEVER go away. Anytime i player steps out of line and doesn't get punished, Butler will be brought up. Anytime a player steps out of line and gets punished slightly Butler will be brought up. Anytime Butler picks off brady when he's targeting jules, Butler will be brought up and wishful thinking about what COULD have been if we had put butler in after half time to cover the speedier guys chung has trouble with, which would have allowed chung to cover the bigger guys that our third strings struggle with, which might have completely changed the superbowl.

I guess we could start a thread about how BB's decisions have resulted in 12 AFCCG's in the last 18 years but I guess being butthurt over one SB loss is the more rational way to go especially when we can create a bunch of speculation supported by "if" statements such as "anytime Butler picks off Brady". hahaha

Loved the rant though.

 

[signbabybrady]

You seem to. But if wasn’t right in what he said, then explain to me why (going back 10 years) Tomlin has two rings, Gary Kubiak has a ring, and Mike McCarthy has a ring. Those are not good coaches and yet they were able to get over the top. Why could that be?

So you are angry if someone says he lied(Which is what you said he did)

But then when someone correctly points out that your logic seems to say that he lied it turns into.. oh well who cares if he lied.

Make up your mind please.

When did I ever say I was mad at someone for lying?

 

[Ring 6]

I prefer to not dishonor the man by treating him differently than he treats others. There are no lifetime achievement awards in Bill Belichick’s world and no one is above criticism.

That’s fine but I didn’t realize you were his boss.

There’s a fine line between the need to discipline and the need to control. The Walker and Seymour examples I gave earlier are instances where, I believe, he overreacted because he was on the wrong side of that line.

And I am 100% confident that a) Bill Belichick had a better understanding of the situation and more knowledge of details than you and b) Bill Belichick is more capable of determining how to motivate, discipline, and manage a team of football players than you are so I disagree with your opinion that he was on the wrong side.

The former didn’t help an offense that could have used a strong start to push back the bully that fueled Rex Ryan’s defense. The latter damaged a relationship with the best and most influential defensive player of his tenure as coach.

See above.

I’m sure there are many more instances of this over the years of which we are not aware. Perhaps, it explains why he got rid of his entire safety group that season without adequate replacements. For the life of me, I can’t remember what season it was, but that defense never recovered from that purge of experience and talent.

Now you are making up hypothetical criticisms. Good job.

I’m not a psychologist or anything

Clearly

but I’m just reading from the book of Bill Belichick’s past. He’s been in the league for 40 years and during that time he developed a reputation as a petty and vindictive guy with a temper who sometimes let his temper as well as his need to be in control get in the way of his judgement.

That is a lie. Please give examples of anyone ever characterizing him like that. You made it up and it is not true.

That reputation explained why it took so long for him to get a HC job in the first place despite his brilliance as the DC of the NY Giants.

You are joking right?
He was 38 years old, one of the youngest HCs in the league, and had been a coordinator for 6 years. There was no negative reputation and it didn’t take long.

He lived up to his negative reputation in Cleveland and if the franchise didn’t leave for Cleveland, he would have been ridden out of town anyway.

He had the sand relationship with the media there he has here. The media wasn’t riding him out of town.
He was building a winner. If the move hadn’t happened he may still be in Cleveland.

Personalities rarely change dramatically though one’s life. You are what you are. Success is the very best mascara and perfume. It hides blemishes and odors. Thankfully for Belichick and all of us, he obtained success with the Patriots very early and sustained it thanks in no small part to his QB for all those years.

All the characteristics you lambaste are the ones that make him a winner.
I’d love to hear your list of better coaches.

HOF Coach Belichick is still Cleveland Bill. We’ve just looked past his mistakes and forgave them because of the success, but he still sometimes acts out of anger and need to control and not in the best interest of his team’s chances of winning. Belichick’s just human folks. Realizing that truly allows you to celebrate his accomplishments.

You made something up and now use it as your lynchpin
If there has ever been a coach who puts aside personal things and cares only about what is best for the team it’s Bill Belichick.
It’s too bad that something evidently snapped in you in February and you have decided to make it your mission to trash the GOAT HC who is responsible for all the success the team you like has had that you puff your chest out about. It’s reaaly bizarre.

 

[aluminum seats]

No that's not entirely what I'm saying. I'm saying BB has had tremendous success because of the way he coaches. The decision to bench Butler is a part or a product of the way he coaches. It has resulted in 12 AFCCG's over the last 18 years. Fans and players know, more so now I'd guess, that BB is consistent and that he'll bench you if you give him the reason to even during a SB.

But that is what you’re saying. You’re saying the patriots have had a lot of success, Belichick made a decision to bench Butler, therefore the decision to bench Butler is reflective of their success. It’s circular reasoning.

 

[Tony2046]

But that is what you’re saying. You’re saying the patriots have had a lot of success, Belichick made a decision to bench Butler, therefore the decision to bench Butler is reflective of their success. It’s circular reasoning.

It's not what I said and it's not circular reasoning rather perspective reasoning. You and others are looking at one game, which is fine, I'm looking at the entire historic run.

I did not say benching Butler is reflective of their success. What I did say was that benching Butler was a product of BB's coaching style which has been responsible for their success.

I also never said you could not criticize his decisions.

I also never said BB has never made a mistake.

I have said that BB's coaching style, whether you agree with his decisions or not, are responsible for 12 AFCCG trips over the last 18 years. It works.

 

[chasa]

When did I ever say I was mad at someone for lying?

I didn't say that.

I said you got mad at someone Saying that BB lied(you):
Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

 

[signbabybrady]

I didn't say that.

I said you got mad at someone Saying that BB lied(you):
Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

You completely misunderstood what your quoting.

 

[chasa]

I guess we could start a thread about how BB's decisions have resulted in 12 AFCCG's in the last 18 years but I guess being butthurt over one SB loss is the more rational way to go especially when we can create a bunch of speculation supported by "if" statements such as "anytime Butler picks off Brady". hahaha

Loved the rant though.

I think it would be a pretty short thread.

it would go something like:

poster 1: Wow 12 AFCcG's in 18 years! Crazy I wonder how that happened

poster 2: Well it started off with getting really lucky with finding a QB in the 6th round, that had both the drive to play, and the foresight to know to take below market deals to surround him with talent

Poster 3: Yeah plus consistently good coaching, and decent enough drafts continuing to bring in young affordable stars

poster 4: don't forget sometimes letting players walk a year early as opposed to ****ing up the cap by extending them past their prime for high dollar values

poster 5: yeah its pretty crazy how good a team can be dealt while constantly at the back end of a draft, and missing draft picks. but when the rest of the league has fallen behind so far, and constantly have to gamble to catch up, you might just stay in the lead

poster 1: oh uhh i guess that settles it then.

IMO thats far different then this topic which basically boils down to

Poster 1: I'm still so confused about why butler was benched for the entire game

poster 2: my source says he yelled at someone

poster 1: but why would that result in a full game benching?

poster 2: its butlers fault

poster 1: but why would BB bench someone an entire game for yelling at someone

poster 2: the defense got out played it has nothing to do with coaching

poster 3: But the coaching put out a defense with players out of position and with the #2 cb on the bench

poster 2: thats not a coaching mistake, thats butlers fault

Poster 1: Explain how any of that makes sense

poster 2: I trust my source

poster 4 in some other thread a week later: Gronks probably a little upset because BB benched butler and it cost the team the title

poster 1: I saw a post about butler benching and it reminded me how frustrated i still am that we have no answers

poster 2: You have answers its butlers fault

poster 1: what did butler do?

poster 2: im not going to tell you, i already said it and blah blah blah blah self fellating nonsense

poster 1: if BB benched him the entire game for getting into a VERBAL only arguement, why didnt he ever sit brady after the blow ups with mcdaniels and O'brien

poster 2: its butlers fault. i have only been programmed with 4 responses.

 

[chasa]

You completely misunderstood what your quoting.

I think you should go back and read your posts because you don't seem to remember saying things you said,

 

[supafly]

Why is the speculation simply that he yelled at someone, or that he was late to curfew or even the flight?

There could have been a ton of reasons, which is exactly why it’s pointless to try and guess. Whatever it was, one of the greatest coaches in the history of the game made the decision to sit him, so it is what it is, but I’m guessing that he felt like the choice was justified.

Belichick may have gotten away with the choice too, had the run defense not been gashed for 164 yards and a 6.1 YPC, and yet the choice to make Branch a healthy scratch doesn’t even come up, because we know for a fact that there were some issues. That could be the same for Butler, too, although likely on a lesser scale.

 

[aluminum seats]

What I did say was that benching Butler was a product of BB's coaching style

If horrific decisions that cost Super Bowls are now products of Belichick’s style, then that style has curdled and turned rotten. Which might help explain why Tom Brady, the ultimate team player, has apparently gotten so tired of him.

 

[chasa]

Why is the speculation simply that he yelled at someone, or that he was late to curfew or even the flight?

There could have been a ton of reasons, which is exactly why it’s pointless to try and guess. Whatever it was, one of the greatest coaches in the history of the game made the decision to sit him, so it is what it is, but I’m guessing that he felt like the choice was justified.

Belichick may have gotten away with the choice too, had the run defense not been gashed for 164 yards and a 6.1 YPC, and yet the choice to make Branch a healthy scratch doesn’t even come up, because we know for a fact that there were some issues. That could be the same for Butler, too, although likely on a lesser scale.

Do you think the run defense might have played better if chung had been able to play in the box more instead of helping out int he secondary?

I'm just using what SBB provided because thats the only thing he believes could possibly been the reason for the benching.