Manziel and the Patriots

[HawaiianPatsfan]

What no one seems to be mentioning is, even if he doesn’t outplay Hoyer, he still has 2 years of practice squad eligibility left (seen a Rapport interview where he stated that.)
He would make a great scout QB for mobile QB’s, while potentially trying to convert him to WR.

People change their lives people.

I once had heavy alcoholic tendencies in my younger 20’s, which got me into trouble several times. I now work as a software engineer for Google and haven’t had a drink in 4 years. I’m 28. It never ruined my life as much as it did with his, but it did none the less set me back.

I don’t have a ton of sympathy for the guy, but I do believe in second chances. Put him in a program where he has to prove his soberity daily (breath monitoring,) thus assuring he’s not a hazard to the community, and I don’t see the big issue with giving him a shot.

I don’t know, maybe I see things differently because of my past, but there are ways to reduce the liability that he brings, while possibly supporting the turn around of a talented human.

I don’t care what you say, we all makes mistakes at some point.

 

[Kontradiction]

I cannot believe that the Patriots are seriously considering bringing in this turd.

 

[luuked]

Allen's going to be long gone by the time the Patriots pick, and I wouldn't touch him in any case. The Laulettas of the world are extreme dart throws; most QBs after the first two rounds are career backups. I don't know, other than trading up for a falling Josh Rosen or staying put and hoping for Lamar Jackson to fall, both of which are longshots, I don't see the Patriots drafting a Brady replacement in this draft. Manziel has the theoretical ceiling to be that, at least.

Patriots fans have been spoiled by Brady. We want to think we can pluck a guy in the late rounds or off the far end of someone's bench (I saw Pat's Pulpit stumping for Cody Kessler, ugh) and have continuity of play. But that's just very unlikely. Like it or not, eventually the Patriots will need to expend another high pick on a quarterback. Someone like Manziel may provide a second path with very little risk.

The reason I disagree with this is simple: JG.

Nobody talked seriously about him having the ceiling that he has and with a lot of sweat and work from BB and Josh he got where he is now. People overrate the draft spot of QBs notoriously. Being picked early doesn't mean you are an overall better prospect but just have more pro ready traits at the time of the draft.

In my opinion Manziel is not a fit for a EP offense. He is not smart enough for that and is not football obsessed enough to overcome this with intense study. But then again this is based on everything we have seen/heard/read so far about him. So obviously there is a little bit of room for him to surprise people. I doubt it though.

 

[mgteich]

As I understand the consensus of posters here, smoking pot and bringing pot on a plane is fine, but having being a drunk means never playing again. Manziel may need to be in AA, but that doesn't disqualify him from playing QB in the NFL.

Bringing Manziel into camp is the kind of move Belichick would make, whether he drafts a QB in the first 100 picks or not.

 

[mgteich]

Manziel more likely ends up drunk in a ditch.

yes, this is true; but the risk for the patriots is low

 

[Yorkshire Pat]

I would be happy to take johnny on board the BB bus. He will be hungry to prove himself and is a very good thrower of the ball/.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Manziel has all the asshat traits of Cam Newton, minus Cam's height, size, arm strength, and wardrobe. He is just not big enough to play a mobile QB in the NFL. Hard Pass

 

[WinstonSmith]

In my opinion Manziel is not a fit for a EP offense. He is not smart enough for that and is not football obsessed enough to overcome this with intense study. But then again this is based on everything we have seen/heard/read so far about him. So obviously there is a little bit of room for him to surprise people. I doubt it though.

Not a big fan of his but didn't he score a 32 on the wonderlic? While the wonderlic is flawed I think his extremely high score indicates at least a level of intelligence that is needed to grasp the Pats' offense. Doing stupid things doesn't necessarily mean that you're actually stupid.

 

[Kontradiction]

As I understand the consensus of posters here, smoking pot and bringing pot on a plane is fine, but having being a drunk means never playing again. Manziel may need to be in AA, but that doesn't disqualify him from playing QB in the NFL.

Bringing Manziel into camp is the kind of move Belichick would make, whether he drafts a QB in the first 100 picks or not.

The drinking and substance abuse issues are just a part of it. This kid has had a massive sense of entitlement since walking in to A&M. He's merely saying the right things now because he wants a career back.

Furthermore, if we're going to consider a quarterback with a potential attitude issue, I'd rather see them consider Mayfield if he drops in the draft.

 

[luuked]

Not a big fan of his but didn't he score a 32 on the wonderlic? While the wonderlic is flawed I think this indicates some level of basic intelligence that would translate to being able to grasp the Pats' offense. Doing stupid things doesn't necessarily mean that you're actually stupid.

I am sorry but I certainly dont give any credence to the wonderlich but mostly to what he was asked to do on the field. From some of the A&M tape back when he was in the draft and some of the Browns snaps I have seen him rarely (if ever) properly read the defense.

He usually had his first (or at most second read) and if the pass rush came too close or the pass was not there he started to move out of the pocket and it became the wild west. And while he might have been good at finding those completions on "broken plays" in college the windows in the NFL are usually so small that it is pretty difficult to complete those plays and maybe more importantly OCs hate it when their designed plays turn into free-for-alls regularly. It is easier to work with a bad QB who at least can work according to plan than with someone talented who doesn't stick with the plan.

I am not saying that he is guaranteed not able to do it but that nothing he has done so far in his career showed any potential towards that. And what makes this even more complicated is that he has never shown that football is the most important thing for him which goes towards studying the game 24/7 to make up for the missing understanding of presnap and postsnap reads.

If you can get him onto the team as a practice squad member and check on his growth through a year then go ahead and knock yourself out. But apart from that option it seems like a wasted roster spot and wasted opportunity for another QB3 to get some meaningful practice snaps.

 

[Ring 6]

The drinking and substance abuse issues are just a part of it. This kid has had a massive sense of entitlement since walking in to A&M. He's merely saying the right things now because he wants a career back.

Furthermore, if we're going to consider a quarterback with a potential attitude issue, I'd rather see them consider Mayfield if he drops in the draft.

You are comparing using a first round pick to putting a guy on the practice squad to see if he can revive his career. Two totally different things.
Signing Manziel should change nothing about drafting the heir apparent.
I think it’s a smart move to find a guy you can put on the practice squad for a couple if seasons in order to have an emergency QB who could develop into more. Look at 2016 with brissett having to play injured with no backup and what almost happened with brady last year with the thumb.
There is value in having a Qb who knows the system who could be activated in those cases.
B.B. obviously feels Manziel has the talent to play in the league, so it seems he would be a perfect candidate. Let him sit 2 years on the ps and see if his head really is right.

 

[manxman2601]

The drinking and substance abuse issues are just a part of it. This kid has had a massive sense of entitlement since walking in to A&M. He's merely saying the right things now because he wants a career back.

Furthermore, if we're going to consider a quarterback with a potential attitude issue, I'd rather see them consider Mayfield if he drops in the draft.

I suspect te chastening events of the last two years and knowing he’ll be nothing more than a backup to the Goat for a couple of years at least will serve to lessen that sense of entitlement. And there’s little risk. If there’s any shenanigans, cut his ass in camp.

 

[Ring 6]

The reason I disagree with this is simple: JG.

Nobody talked seriously about him having the ceiling that he has and with a lot of sweat and work from BB and Josh he got where he is now. People overrate the draft spot of QBs notoriously. Being picked early doesn't mean you are an overall better prospect but just have more pro ready traits at the time of the draft.

In my opinion Manziel is not a fit for a EP offense. He is not smart enough for that and is not football obsessed enough to overcome this with intense study. But then again this is based on everything we have seen/heard/read so far about him. So obviously there is a little bit of room for him to surprise people. I doubt it though.

Making poor decisions in your personal life and being football smart are 2 different things.
Manziel won the heisman as a freshman. (Referring here to your later post about his college play)
To say a freshman carrying a mediocre team to a lot of wins and winning the heisman illustrates poor football smarts because he EFFECTIVELY used his running ability to escape and overcome poor blocking and had an incredible amount of success is just wrong.
I am sure that is what he was coached to do. You can’t blame a player or call them stupid because they played as they were coached. If he comes here and is coached in our offense there is no reason to believe he won’t absorb that coaching.

 

[Kontradiction]

You are comparing using a first round pick to putting a guy on the practice squad to see if he can revive his career. Two totally different things.
Signing Manziel should change nothing about drafting the heir apparent.
I think it’s a smart move to find a guy you can put on the practice squad for a couple if seasons in order to have an emergency QB who could develop into more. Look at 2016 with brissett having to play injured with no backup and what almost happened with brady last year with the thumb.
There is value in having a Qb who knows the system who could be activated in those cases.
B.B. obviously feels Manziel has the talent to play in the league, so it seems he would be a perfect candidate. Let him sit 2 years on the ps and see if his head really is right.

Mayfield may not go in the first round. Some mocks have him sliding into the second. He also doesn't have a history of substance abuse nor allegedly committing domestic violence. He also hasn't washed out of the league yet. Furthermore, where are you seeing reports that their plans for him are on the practice squad? Legitimately curious on that one.

 

[primetime]

The reason I disagree with this is simple: JG.

Nobody talked seriously about him having the ceiling that he has and with a lot of sweat and work from BB and Josh he got where he is now. People overrate the draft spot of QBs notoriously. Being picked early doesn't mean you are an overall better prospect but just have more pro ready traits at the time of the draft.

In my opinion Manziel is not a fit for a EP offense. He is not smart enough for that and is not football obsessed enough to overcome this with intense study. But then again this is based on everything we have seen/heard/read so far about him. So obviously there is a little bit of room for him to surprise people. I doubt it though.

Garoppolo was a 2nd round pick. I don't understand how that contradicts "most starting quarterbacks in the NFL are taken in the first couple rounds." I also think he's still a question mark. Plenty of quarterbacks have had four or five good games when there are no stakes at all.

Among the top-20 or so starting quarterbacks in the league, only Brady, Wilson, Garoppolo, Cousins, and Prescott were picked outside the first round. If you want to throw Keenum in there based off last year, fine. Unless you get very lucky, you have to expend draft capital to get a franchise quarterback.

Mayfield may not go in the first round. Some mocks have him sliding into the second. He also doesn't have a history of substance abuse nor allegedly committing domestic violence. He also hasn't washed out of the league yet. Furthermore, where are you seeing reports that their plans for him are on the practice squad? Legitimately curious on that one.

His value seems to have solidified in the top-10. If he was available at 31, it would make sense for the Patriots to take him. He won't be, though.

 

[mgteich]

I think top 15 for Mayfield is much more likely than him being available at 31.

Mayfield may not go in the first round. Some mocks have him sliding into the second.

 

[Ring 6]

Mayfield may not go in the first round. Some mocks have him sliding into the second. He also doesn't have a history of substance abuse nor allegedly committing domestic violence. He also hasn't washed out of the league yet. Furthermore, where are you seeing reports that their plans for him are on the practice squad? Legitimately curious on that one.

Just using common sense. Manziel would be getting paid the minimum and be fighting for a roster spot. Given him being out of football for a while and the fact that hoyer and probably a draft pick will be here where else would he go but the practice squad?
I’m not sure why you are comparing him to mayfield that would be the same as comparing bring James ferentz to camp with whether we should draft ol.

 

[mgteich]

Just using common sense. Manziel would be getting paid the minimum and be fighting for a roster spot. Given him being out of football for a while and the fact that hoyer and probably a draft pick will be here where else would he go but the practice squad?
I’m not sure why you are comparing him to mayfield that would be the same as comparing bring James ferentz to camp with whether we should draft ol.

While I agree with your analysis, I think that another team would take a flyer on Manziel if he survived the patriot pre-season and landed on our Practice Squad. It might take a few weeks or even a couple of months, but I wouldn't expect Manziel to be on our Practice Squad for a full season.

 

[Ring 6]

While I agree with your analysis, I think that another team would take a flyer on Manziel if he survived the patriot pre-season and landed on our Practice Squad. It might take a few weeks or even a couple of months, but I wouldn't expect Manziel to be on our Practice Squad for a full season.

I disagree. He is toxic. I think it’s New England or Canada and coming to camp, getting cut and put in a practice squad isn’t going to change another teams mind.

To claim him off the practice squad they have to put him in their active roster which means cutting the other qb they had in camp who knows their offense.

 

[mgteich]

I disagree. He is toxic. I think it’s New England or Canada and coming to camp, getting cut and put in a practice squad isn’t going to change another teams mind.

To claim him off the practice squad they have to put him in their active roster which means cutting the other qb they had in camp who knows their offense.

Claiming him and putting him on the active roster after a couple months only means that a team uses an end of the roster spot to take a flyer. There may be a quarterback-needy team with little hope of the playoffs at midseason who might do that.

And yes, I think that a team COULD change their mind if Manziel keeps clean through camp, preseason and half a season on the patriot Practice Squad. Also, Manziel might get some preseason action to remind folks of his skill set.