An Interesting Ranking List

[cmasspatsfan]

what was illegal? last i checked bad judgement isnt illegal...

Yeah, it was that legal marijuana he took.

 

[DarrylS]

I absolutely agree. And our last few drafts haven't been great either.

Since 2014, in Rounds 1 & 2, we've drafted Easley (bust), Garoppolo (an elite backup), Malcom Brown (fine), Jordan Richards (vomit), 2016 NFL/Deflategate Thievery™, Cyrus Jones (surprising bust), and then last year we spent a 1st rounder on Brandin Cooks.

I'm not blaming Bill for any of these individual decisions, but realistically it's been a 4 year run of draft failure at improving the team.

Look, by the very nature of our success, we're penalised every season by having to draft at the end of each round. So it's tough, and there'll never be any easy home-runs in the draft for us.

But we need a couple of good drafts to reload the team, and I think the 'end of an era' narrative has some foundations in this. Free agency can only get us so far.

Left out a few guys, eh??? Not every good player gets drafted in rounds 1 and 2. 4 years of draft failure???
2014... James White, Cameron Fleming and David Stork
2015.. Trey Flowers, Joe Cardona, Shaq Mason
2016... Joe Thuney, Vincent Valentine, Malcolm Mitchell, Ted Karras
2017.. Deatrich Wise and three promising guys who got hurt (Rivers, McDermott and Garcia)

Need to provide context to this argument about draft busts, if you look at most other teams there area always hits and misses in the draft.. we are going into the 2018 draft with 5 draft picks, 3 of the first 63 picks..

 

[Nonentity]

PATRIOTS DRAFTS under BB:

Left out a few guys, eh??? Not every good player gets drafted in rounds 1 and 2. 4 years of draft failure???
2014... James White, Cameron Fleming and David Stork
2015.. Trey Flowers, Joe Cardona, Shaq Mason
2016... Joe Thuney, Vincent Valentine, Malcolm Mitchell, Ted Karras
2017.. Deatrich Wise and three promising guys who got hurt (Rivers, McDermott and Garcia)

Need to provide context to this argument about draft busts, if you look at most other teams there area always hits and misses in the draft.. we are going into the 2018 draft with 5 draft picks, 3 of the first 63 picks..

Gents, you're absolutely right to call me out on my post. I didn't properly explain my reasoning for looking only at Rounds 1 & 2, and it made me look as if I was snobbishly ignoring Rounds 3-7, where you can find NFL starters of course.

However, the flip side is this - that you mostly find average starters in the later rounds, and that the majority of Pro Bowlers come from Rounds 1 & 2.

Players with the best game tape, college success, athletic ability and overall upside generally go in the first 2 rounds.

Looking at our roster, many of our most capable players were drafted in the first 2 rounds - Cooks, Gronkowski, Solder, Hightower, Van Noy, McCourty, Gilmore, Chung, Rowe.

Yes, you can get good players in other rounds, but often the most irreplaceable players come in Rounds 1 & 2. That was why I referenced those rounds directly, and why I think it's so damaging (over the long-term) for a team's high-round picks to not be long-term contributors.

 

[Deus Irae]

Left out a few guys, eh??? Not every good player gets drafted in rounds 1 and 2. 4 years of draft failure???
2014... James White, Cameron Fleming and David Stork
2015.. Trey Flowers, Joe Cardona, Shaq Mason
2016... Joe Thuney, Vincent Valentine, Malcolm Mitchell, Ted Karras
2017.. Deatrich Wise and three promising guys who got hurt (Rivers, McDermott and Garcia)

Need to provide context to this argument about draft busts, if you look at most other teams there area always hits and misses in the draft.. we are going into the 2018 draft with 5 draft picks, 3 of the first 63 picks..

Your post actually provides plenty of context, if you look at your list, though I don't think it shows what you hoped it would. Take away the QB who's gone (and who's ceiling is still unknown), and that's an impressively unimpressive list.

 

[maineman209]

Gents, you're absolutely right to call me out on my post. I didn't properly explain my reasoning for looking only at Rounds 1 & 2, and it made me look as if I was snobbishly ignoring Rounds 3-7, where you can find NFL starters of course.

However, the flip side is this - that you mostly find average starters in the later rounds, and that the majority of Pro Bowlers come from Rounds 1 & 2.

Players with the best game tape, college success, athletic ability and overall upside generally go in the first 2 rounds.

Looking at our roster, many of our most capable players were drafted in the first 2 rounds - Cooks, Gronkowski, Solder, Hightower, Van Noy, McCourty, Gilmore, Chung, Rowe.

Yes, you can get good players in other rounds, but often the most irreplaceable players come in Rounds 1 & 2. That was why I referenced those rounds directly, and why I think it's so damaging (over the long-term) for a team's high-round picks to not be long-term contributors.

But, then, that's exactly the issue. BB doesn't really view the draft quite that way.

 

[Tony2046]

Yeah, in many ways, this Defense played well over its head. Their best player, a guy I think most people would agree they could not lose, they lost (Hightower). The second guy I would have said at the start of the season would have been Butler (no need to discuss) and McCourty. This defense just lacks playmakers in the front 7 (without Hightower). I can think of only 1-2 starters on the Eagles D that would be starters for a team like the Eagles or Jags or Vikings. They just lack talent.

They lack cap space as well.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Would you invest 83 million into that position though?

Its also not just a question of would you invest that much into a specific position, but would you invest that much into Chandler Jones at that position

Keep in mind he was at a police station high on synthetic marijuana during a playoff prep week. Not the type of behavior you want from one of your team leaders that you have invested a top contract into

You can only have a few of those top of the market players, so you have to choose wisely

 

[mgteich]

Consider the personnel situation after the first few games.

The defense won some games after that. They were a good enough defense to get us to the Super Bowl. They were among the best in the league in preventing points in that time period (a high defensive goal I think).

Yes, the patriots were outmatched in the Super Bowl by a team that did fantastically well with their acquisitions. They are now also many millions over the cap. BTW, how good was the PHI defense in the Super Bowl?

In the end, I think that the defense (compared to most others in the playoffs) was so good (especially given their injuries and personnel available) that the DC should have been offered HC positions and have been made a head coach.

Don’t forget the “defense is fine” banner, awarded from weeks 6-17.

(Ducks)

 

[mgteich]

The comparison of the patriots in the first round to the average others is a bit of apples to oranges. Yes, lots of prowlers come from the first half of the first round of drafts. I believe that the patriots have done well under Belichick with those picks.

Gents, you're absolutely right to call me out on my post. I didn't properly explain my reasoning for looking only at Rounds 1 & 2, and it made me look as if I was snobbishly ignoring Rounds 3-7, where you can find NFL starters of course.

However, the flip side is this - that you mostly find average starters in the later rounds, and that the majority of Pro Bowlers come from Rounds 1 & 2.

Players with the best game tape, college success, athletic ability and overall upside generally go in the first 2 rounds.

Looking at our roster, many of our most capable players were drafted in the first 2 rounds - Cooks, Gronkowski, Solder, Hightower, Van Noy, McCourty, Gilmore, Chung, Rowe.

Yes, you can get good players in other rounds, but often the most irreplaceable players come in Rounds 1 & 2. That was why I referenced those rounds directly, and why I think it's so damaging (over the long-term) for a team's high-round picks to not be long-term contributors.

 

[ATippett56]

Don’t forget the “defense is fine” banner, awarded from weeks 6-17.

(Ducks)

In the last twelve (12) regular season games, the New England Patriots played the Bills twice, Dolphins twice, Jets twice (86 points allowed in 6 games).

2017 New England Patriots Statistics & Players | Pro-Football-Reference.com

The AFC East is the cure for all the supposed defensive woes. (heads for cover)

 

[Deus Irae]

The comparison of the patriots in the first round to the average others is a bit of apples to oranges.

No, it's not. The difference is in degree, not kind.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes, the patriots were outmatched in the Super Bowl by a team that did fantastically well with their acquisitions. They are now also many millions over the cap. BTW, how good was the PHI defense in the Super Bowl?

In the end, I think that the defense (compared to most others in the playoffs) was so good (especially given their injuries and personnel available) that the DC should have been offered HC positions and have been made a head coach.

They were a weak defensive squad that had deficiencies covered by the coaching staff, until the opponents were able to overcome the coaching, partly due to a higher than usual amount of execution failures on the part of the defensive personnel.

This was neither novel nor shockingly unexpected. It was the topic of many discussions over the course of the season, just as it's been the topic of discussion in past seasons.

 

[supafly]

Consider the personnel situation after the first few games.

The defense won some games after that. They were a good enough defense to get us to the Super Bowl. They were among the best in the league in preventing points in that time period (a high defensive goal I think).

Yes, the patriots were outmatched in the Super Bowl by a team that did fantastically well with their acquisitions. They are now also many millions over the cap. BTW, how good was the PHI defense in the Super Bowl?

In the end, I think that the defense (compared to most others in the playoffs) was so good (especially given their injuries and personnel available) that the DC should have been offered HC positions and have been made a head coach.

It was a joke to go along with the other banners that were discussed, but there was a real concern that things would change when the competition improved. I think that was evident in the Pittsburgh game, too.

 

[DarrylS]

Gents, you're absolutely right to call me out on my post. I didn't properly explain my reasoning for looking only at Rounds 1 & 2, and it made me look as if I was snobbishly ignoring Rounds 3-7, where you can find NFL starters of course.

However, the flip side is this - that you mostly find average starters in the later rounds, and that the majority of Pro Bowlers come from Rounds 1 & 2.

Players with the best game tape, college success, athletic ability and overall upside generally go in the first 2 rounds.

Looking at our roster, many of our most capable players were drafted in the first 2 rounds - Cooks, Gronkowski, Solder, Hightower, Van Noy, McCourty, Gilmore, Chung, Rowe.

Yes, you can get good players in other rounds, but often the most irreplaceable players come in Rounds 1 & 2. That was why I referenced those rounds directly, and why I think it's so damaging (over the long-term) for a team's high-round picks to not be long-term contributors.

You need to quantify this somewhat better, as there is a lot of conjecture and little evidence offered in your argument.. #12 comes to mind immediately.

One of the things I have never seen is a longitudinal study of who succeeds and who fails in the NFL, along with which team has been the most successful.. the economics of the Patriots dictates that you can only have so many top tier players on your team as salary cap issues will prevail, quality depth is a value for this team. This year for example, Cannon went down, LaWaddle did not play.. Cameron had to step in. Not sure you can have really good depth if you have a bunch of pro bowlers..

 

[primetime]

Its also not just a question of would you invest that much into a specific position, but would you invest that much into Chandler Jones at that position

Keep in mind he was at a police station high on synthetic marijuana during a playoff prep week. Not the type of behavior you want from one of your team leaders that you have invested a top contract into

You can only have a few of those top of the market players, so you have to choose wisely

I would have preferred a big investment in Jones over Hightower given his injury history and subsequent failed physical with the Jets, but the counterpoint is the strip sack against the Falcons I suppose and it's all water under the bridge now.

Truth be told, they missed Ninkovich a lot this year.

 

[Jangles]

It's unfortunate the Pats won SB51 without both Chandler and Hicks. How did they do that?

Unlike in this years superbowl they played defense

It was a bold move by Belichick only bringing his offense and most of his special teams this year. Didn't really pan out though

 

[bigballas]

Yeah, it was that legal marijuana he took.

i get your sarcasm, but all the info that came out concluded it was "synthetic marijuana" which actually doesnt contain "marijuana"...and many variants were legal in the area and sold at gas stations at that time. big issue regulating it - dooesnt make it right. but lets get the facts straight