Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[Ivan]

QB rating when targeting Butlers reciever was 103.3 this year with 8 TDS. He is also the shortest corner we have and all of the eagles receivers are over 6’.

We have some of the lousiest fans ever. You can’t win every game, eagles were the better team. Can’t win the Superbowl every year, we’ve made it to the Superbowl 8 times since 2001 and you rotten spoiled man child’s can only complain.

You’re lucky to have a combo of Bill and Brady. If you think otherwise you’re a fool because most teams are lucky to see one Superbowl in 15-20 years.

It’s a shame this can’t get 100 “ winners.”

 

[Ivan]

Also, let's drop the "nobody knew anything until just before kickoff" crap:



They may not have known until just before kickoff that he wouldn't be playing at all, but they knew days ahead that his role was at a minimum being cut way back.

It’s just speculation on my part but I think everything went seriously downhill after Butler was informed he wouldnt start. And I honestly think that had he responded by setting that aside and busting his ass to show he should be out there he would have ended up playing most of the game. I think he got really upset and emotional and went in the complete other direction and Belichick and the coaches lost complete faith and trust in him, and that led to the total benching.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

When it comes down to it, I really have only two questions about the defensive game:

1) Why did they draw up the game plan they did, which would have had many people out of position even if Butler had played?
2) What exactly happened between Butler and BB that caused Belichick to refuse to put him in even as a desperation move for a single series to see if it helped? Like @robertweathers I think both Butler and BB are lying through their teeth in their statements about what went down.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Ultimately I think Butler got into the same mind set as Collins. “ They won’t pay me what I’m worth, I’m
Underpaid now, I’m not going to make my money sacrificing stats for the team so I’m going to play the way I want to and not as part of the unit.” Both are good players who thought they were better than they are. Belichick lost trust and faith in both because they tuned out the coaches in hopes of upping their value in an open market. Belichick has zero tolerance for those who want to do whatever they want on the field. More than anything I think Butler tuning out the coaches was at the core of his benching, but I’m guessing that there was more to it leading up to the game.

Bolded is what justifies the benching. Case closed.

For the "play him anyway" crowd this is where you either have confidence BB is running the club the right way and deserves the benefit of the doubt or you don't.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

It’s just speculation on my part but I think everything went seriously downhill after Butler was informed he wouldnt start. And I honestly think that had he responded by setting that aside and busting his ass to show he should be out there he would have ended up playing most of the game. I think he got really upset and emotional and went in the complete other direction and Belichick and the coaches lost complete faith and trust in him, and that led to the total benching.

I think that's the most likely turn of events. We'll probably never know if it's true, but it is at least consistent with everything that happened.

 

[RobertWeathers]

QB rating when targeting Butlers reciever was 103.3 this year with 8 TDS. He is also the shortest corner we have and all of the eagles receivers are over 6’.

We have some of the lousiest fans ever. You can’t win every game, eagles were the better team. Can’t win the Superbowl every year, we’ve made it to the Superbowl 8 times since 2001 and you rotten spoiled man child’s can only complain.

You’re lucky to have a combo of Bill and Brady. If you think otherwise you’re a fool because most teams are lucky to see one Superbowl in 15-20 years.

Jesus I knew he had an off year but thats bad.

 

[Soliel]

Bolded is what justifies the benching. Case closed.

For the "play him anyway" crowd this is where you either have confidence BB is running the club the right way and deserves the benefit of the doubt or you don't.

Well said.

I wish there was more information but what you pointed out sounds reasonable. The folks going nutts about B.B. and his ego are entitled to their opinion and yes, he is arrogant. But he’s great and you can’t find coaches that go with letting the news paper run your team and win at the playoff level ball. The ones saying he threw the game are delusional

 

[RobertWeathers]

Well said.

I wish there was more information but what you pointed out sounds reasonable. The folks going nutts about B.B. and his ego are entitled to their opinion and yes, he is arrogant. But he’s great and you can’t find coaches that go with letting the news paper run your team and win at the playoff level ball. The ones saying he threw the game are delusional

The lack of information is maddening.

I think BB has an ego and certainly a level of arrogance but I don't believe for one second those two things got in the way of his decision. There were a multitude of factors.

Its like the last episode of The Sopranos. What happened? Is that it?

 

[upstater1]

Either you don’t understand the meaning of sabotage or you recently lost your mind.

I’m curious though. Why do you think after all these years belichick would suddenly purposely hurt his team for no reason at all? Why would you completely rule out that butler forced his hand?

Out of the choices that butler somehow screwed up or belichick stopped caring about winning the day of a Sb or belichick lost his mind, you seem to dismiss the obvious answer and go with the inexplicable.
I’m shocked that the incredible job Bill Belichick has done here, and the obvious commitment to success he has had leads you to throw him under the bus without facts and jump to the conclusion that he either threw the gsme or lis his mind instead of the obvious answer that there was a valid reason behind it, especially when you admittedly have no clue what prompted the decision.

OK call it self-sabotage then!

 

[Ring 6]

OK call it self-sabotage then!

By butler? I agree.

 

[Ring 6]

The lack of information is maddening.

I think BB has an ego and certainly a level of arrogance but I don't believe for one second those two things got in the way of his decision. There were a multitude of factors.

Its like the last episode of The Sopranos. What happened? Is that it?

When has belichick ever made a football decision based upon ego?
Having team rules isn’t ego.
Making a tough possibly unpopular decision because you believe it’s the right thing when your job is to make the decision isn’t ego.
Having a different philosophy than the crowd isn’t ego.

 

[RobertWeathers]

When has belichick ever made a football decision based upon ego?
Having team rules isn’t ego.
Making a tough possibly unpopular decision because you believe it’s the right thing when your job is to make the decision isn’t ego.
Having a different philosophy than the crowd isn’t ego.

He has an ego but not in a football sense.

 

[Ring 6]

When it comes down to it, I really have only two questions about the defensive game:

1) Why did they draw up the game plan they did, which would have had many people out of position even if Butler had played?
2) What exactly happened between Butler and BB that caused Belichick to refuse to put him in even as a desperation move for a single series to see if it helped? Like @robertweathers I think both Butler and BB are lying through their teeth in their statements about what went down.

Frankly I think we didn’t have the talent on defense to defend the philly game plan scheme or not
Their OL destroyed our front 7. Destroyed them. We couldn’t stop the run at all. They ran 27 for 164. That’s over 6 yards per carry. And when they threw we got no pressure at all. There is a clip on the show with Simms where B.B. says to mp “we can’t get any pressure with 4 so let’s send them and see if we can force a bad play”
The secondary and scheme is irrelevant when you are allowing them to run you over and they have all day to run whatever route combination they want.

I think if this game is graded defensively the secondary will come out with the highest grades. When there is zero pressure but must throws are being made where the Sb has a chance to make a play in the ball or is right there to deliver a hit that’s not bad secondary play.

We had Lawrence guy, Eric lee, James fossil Harrison, multiply cast off Ricky jean, Elandon Roberts playing major snaps and getting shoved all over the field and even the best guys on the front 7 brown, flowers and Van Noy rarely did anything positive.
Philadelphia didn’t exploit butlers absence they exploited a front 7 that spent the season hanging on because of strong scheme and in this gane the OL was too good for scheme to handle.

 

[IllegalContact]

Bolded is what justifies the benching. Case closed.

For the "play him anyway" crowd this is where you either have confidence BB is running the club the right way and deserves the benefit of the doubt or you don't.

so which fantasy is the most believable?

I still see him playing 100% of the snaps against titans and jags, and then 0% against the eagles, but still dressed.......and don't give me that 'protection against injury' crap......they were covering ertz and agholor as though they were injured, and chung was actually injured and missed time and butler still didn't get out there

it's really the piss-poorest time to display a vendetta or to try to make an example........you make examples all season long to get to this point, once you're at the point, making an example that loses the moment literally destroys all the other examples you made all year long

it's garbage, and nobodies love for coach is going to change that........talk about an entire roster that now has something to really question the coach with......don't worry, guys....listen to me and we will be victorious!!!! lol

 

[Ring 6]

He has an ego but not in a football sense.

I mean other than f-int with the media because he believes they are an annoyance and want info he does not want nade public I fail to see ego.
Look at what he says. He credits the players and he takes the blame. He literally told Parcells he couldn’t be where he is without him. How is that ego?

You will get an injury report, or were on to Cincinnati isn’t ego, it’s doing what is best for his team.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

AndyJohnson and Robert Weathers don't base anything on logic here but rather religiously defend a position no matter the facts.

Fact is the run defense was going to suffer when you make your elite in the box SS not play his strengths and have to play slot corner all game

 

[patsfan13]

Fanboy. You refuse to believe possibly Malcolm screwed up. It's all BBs fault. Gotcha.

No I don't discount Butler 'screwing up' at all.

I do think BB response was totally F'd up given the fact of how he weakened the entire secondary with his benching of Butler leading to the horrible result Sunday.

Either remove him from the game day roster and let the team know in advance or play him to at least try to win the game, then let him go elsewhere if you don't want the guy on the team.

Putting Chung, Rowe and McCourty out of position and putting in Badamosi and Richards in for critical snaps in the biggest game of the year was just STUPID on BB's part.

You can't argue with RESULTS.

 

[RobertWeathers]

so which fantasy is the most believable?

I still see him playing 100% of the snaps against titans and jags, and then 0% against the eagles, but still dressed.......and don't give me that 'protection against injury' crap......they were covering ertz and agholor as though they were injured, and chung was actually injured and missed time and butler still didn't get out there

it's really the piss-poorest time to display a vendetta or to try to make an example........you make examples all season long to get to this point, once you're at the point, making an example that loses the moment literally destroys all the other examples you made all year long

it's garbage, and nobodies love for coach is going to change that........talk about an entire roster that now has something to really question the coach with......don't worry, guys....listen to me and we will be victorious!!!! lol

There is no fantasy. What vendetta? What example?

We have 18 years of examples where BB has pissed off the locker room and it had zero impact on winning

 

[RobertWeathers]

AndyJohnson and Robert Weathers don't base anything on logic here but rather religiously defend a position no matter the facts.

Fact is the run defense was going to suffer when you make your elite in the box SS not play his strengths and have to play slot corner all game

Your conclusion is BB didn't apply logic and rational thought to sitting Malcolm. Right.

Chung has played slot DB about 50% of the time this year and excelled at it.

You make it sound he is in the box stuffing run 99% of the time.

You are all over the place.

 

[RobertWeathers]

No I don't discount Butler 'screwing up' at all.

Yes you do. You wanted BB to play Malcolm no matter what he was or wasn't doing. Just admit that and we can move on.

I do think BB response was totally F'd up given the fact of how he weakened the entire secondary with his benching of Butler leading to the horrible result Sunday.

Sure if you actually believe his response.

Either remove him from the game day roster

Sure and leave the team with 2 CBs? I'm willing to assume once they told malcolm he wasn't going to start he freaked. They expected him to handle it like a professional. Boy were they wrong.

and let the team know in advance or play him to at least try to win the game, then let him go elsewhere if you don't want the guy on the team.

Multiple players knew days in advance Malcolm's role would be reduced and they prepared for it. If you want to sat BB didn't prepare them well then that is fine.

Putting Chung, Rowe and McCourty out of position and putting in Badamosi and Richards in for critical snaps in the biggest game of the year was just STUPID on BB's part.

You can't argue with RESULTS.

Sure if you want to base it on speculation. Saying the D would have been better with a ****ed in the head Malcolm out there is speculative.