Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[Ring 6]

No discussion just mocking people who blindly assume BB is God and perhaps don't know the game that well.

Your choice whether you want to tak about football or ball sacks. Just telling you I won’t be participating in the childish ones.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

By the way Richards was indeed on zach ertz. Ertz made a couple of big plays on him.Wish they got rid of that scrub! Not putting butler change a lot of things scheme wise on defense.

 

[Ring 6]

Fact 1: The defense allowed 41 points in the Super Bowl, second most of any Belichick Pats team in his 18 years, regular season or playoff.

Fact 2: With Butler playing CB#1 last year we allowed 15,6 points per game, number one in the league.

Fact 3: With Butler playing CB#1 for 3 games and CB #2 for the rest, this defense allowed 14.4 points in the last 14 games, number one in the league. 17 per game in the playoffs.

Butler is out, the entire defense is rearranged and it performs at an all time worst level, and people have the temerity to argue that Belichick was right in thinking Butler should be out and that it’s a good decision?

As has been said for 100 pages it depends upon the reason

If Bill Belichick assessed butler this week and felt in his current state, with apparent struggling to execute the scheme, and attitude problems and deemed it so bad that he was afraid to put him on the field and felt Bademosi was a better option, I believe him.
I certainly believe his judgment better than yours.
But please give your reason. It appears that you think butler was 100% and nothing was wrong.
So why would belichick bench him?

[/quote]Once again, a defense that allowed 14.4 points in the last 14 games allowed 41 points and the only missing link was Butler.

The domino effect ruined the defense, ruined the team and whatever Butler did or didn’t do, whether he looked bad in training or not, the coaching stuff sabotaged the players, the fans, the entire organization by not making a change that they could have easily done it when it was obvious, OBVIOUS, that things were not working and we were getting exposed.[/QUOTE]
There was no domino effect. It was butler or Rowe. At best in the scheme they played against this offense cb3 wod gave played maybe 15-20 snaps.
As it was they struggled with the run (which was a bigger problem than the pass and set up the pass for most of the game) so they weren’t likely to go smaller.

 

[patsfan13]

Your choice whether you want to tak about football or ball sacks. Just telling you I won’t be participating in the childish ones.

Never mentioned you or anyone else by name but you just keep replying.

About that great game plan by BB...... it sucked, Butler couldn't have been worse if he just stood there and didn't move.

The Eagle coaches were stunned and delighted that Butler wasn't on the field, Mayo and Ninko thought it was stupid, but what the Hell do they know....

 

[LightSkinSmurf]

Fact 1: The defense allowed 41 points in the Super Bowl, second most of any Belichick Pats team in his 18 years, regular season or playoff.

Fact 2: With Butler playing CB#1 last year we allowed 15,6 points per game, number one in the league.

Fact 3: With Butler playing CB#1 for 3 games and CB #2 for the rest, this defense allowed 14.4 points in the last 14 games, number one in the league. 17 per game in the playoffs.

Butler is out, the entire defense is rearranged and it performs at an all time worst level, and people have the temerity to argue that Belichick was right in thinking Butler should be out and that it’s a good decision?

Once again, a defense that allowed 14.4 points in the last 14 games allowed 41 points and the only missing link was Butler.

The domino effect ruined the defense, ruined the team and whatever Butler did or didn’t do, whether he looked bad in training or not, the coaching stuff sabotaged the players, the fans, the entire organization by not making a change that they could have easily done it when it was obvious, OBVIOUS, that things were not working and we were getting exposed.

I couldn't have said it any better. Belichick lost this SB, period. And that is why I'm pissed off. He did NOT put his team in the best situation to succeed in the biggest game of the year. To lose because of that...............just a tough pill to swallow.

 

[Joey007]

Fun fact: this thread has the most replies of any non official thread (GDT, Jets Suck) in Patsfans history.

Really tells you how flustering this whole situation has been.

 

[50-yard-line]

I didn't realize you were an "expert" of interpreting people's true meanings on social media. There are consequences to "likes" for people with low self-esteem and weak character because they actually put credence into that BS.

It's got nothing to do with interpreting. Brady KNOWS damned well that his public support and effusive praise of Butler at this time would fan flames.

Flames that burn at Belichick.

This thing ain't over by a long shot.

 

[supafly]

About that great game plan by BB...... it sucked, Butler couldn't have been worse if he just stood there and didn't move.

The Eagle coaches were stunned and delighted that Butler wasn't on the field, Mayo and Ninko thought it was stupid, but what the Hell do they know....

I agree about the lousy gameplan etc, but it’s freaking Bill Belichick that we’re discussing, here. Even if he made a costly mistake to lose a big game by sticking to his guns, shouldn’t we be appreciative of the fact that he’s a human being who may have messed up and made a poor choice? Yes, it sucks but it happens. He may have made a bad call. He’s done it before and he’ll likely do it again.

The dude is clearly the greatest coach of all time who has helped to make 13-3 seasons a regular thing around these parts. He’s helped lead us to 12 conference championship appearances in like, 18 years. Should we really continue to bash him and try and run him out of town? He obviously thought that Bademosi and Rowe would play better, and a lot of other factors went into us losing. Yes, the loss stings but I’m moving on from blaming him 100%. Lots of stuff happened that contributed, namely 3 touchdowns that could’ve been overturned but went their way.

 

[RobertWeathers]

That's not amazing. A lot of teams win games and even Super Bowls and don't have Brady. The Eagles did this year. The Vikings went to the AFC championship with two QB changes.

Parcells took Bledsoe to a SB, Carroll took him to the playoffs. Bledsoe's worst record as a QB over all his seasons as a starter came under BB with 5-11.

Ok add the 8 SB appearances.

Better?

 

[RobertWeathers]

He took a team that was 16-0 the year before with Brady to an 11-5 record with Cassell who made the pro bowl 2 years later. So without Brady he wins 5 less games per season.

Oh by the way he got beat in the super bowl by a coach playing with his backup QB. So I guess his not even making the playoffs season is not all that amazing after all.

Add 8 SB using a QB he picked, mentored, coached and built an offensive system around.

Oh but that doesn't fit your narrative....

 

[BradyMoss812]

IMO, Bill Belichick is the greatest NFL coach of all time.

IMO, his coaching & decision-making in Super Bowl LII sucked and I put the loss squarely on his shoulders.

 

[supafly]

I truly believe that Butler could’ve made a difference, then I look back to the 42 points given up to KC and a similar offensive scheme and I’m not as sure. It isn’t like he didn’t have communication issues or play poorly at times this year, that’s for sure.

I believe the lack of QB pressure, missed tackles up front (lack of talent in the front seven + excellent PHI OL), 3 controversial TDs allowed (refs/luck), early poor choices from and subsequent loss of our WR1 (Cooks), missed FG and XP (Allen/Gost), inability to get off the field on crucial 3rd and 4th down situations to Zach Ertz late in the game that allowed the go-ahead TD (Chung in coverage), and finally an untimely strip sack of Brady on the game’s most crucial drive (Mason/Brady/luck/ability of PHI DL to make a timely play) all contributed fairly heavily to the loss; and then I wonder how different things may/may not have been with Butler, and how he may not have been quite the difference maker that some are assuming.

I think he may have likely helped on the early TD to Jeffrey/passes to Agholor, so that may have been the difference in allowing one less TD, but there were a LOT of things that were wrong in this game, and I think it’s faulty to assume that an inconsistent 2017 version of Malcolm Butler may have been some type of savior for us. He may have helped a little, a lot, or not at all—but there were also a lot of things that happened away from him that may not have made it the slam dunk victory that some are suggesting.

 

[GorBelSer]

KC had a long TD because Gilmore lost track of Hill, another long TD when Cassius Marsh forgot to set the edge. Maybe he would not have been a savior but our defensive scheme with Rowe on Jeffery and safety in slot played directly into the hands of the Eagles.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

I truly believe that Butler could’ve made a difference, then I look back to the 42 points given up to KC and a similar offensive scheme and I’m not as sure. It isn’t like he didn’t have communication issues or play poorly at times this year, that’s for sure.

I believe the lack of QB pressure, missed tackles up front (lack of talent in the front seven + excellent PHI OL), 3 controversial TDs allowed (refs/luck), early poor choices from and subsequent loss of our WR1 (Cooks), missed FG and XP (Allen/Gost), inability to get off the field on crucial 3rd and 4th down situations to Zach Ertz late in the game that allowed the go-ahead TD (Chung in coverage), and finally an untimely strip sack of Brady on the game’s most crucial drive (Mason/Brady/luck/ability of PHI DL to make a timely play) all contributed fairly heavily to the loss; and then I wonder how different things may/may not have been with Butler, and how he may not have been quite the difference maker that some are assuming.

I think he may have likely helped on the early TD to Jeffrey/passes to Agholor, so that may have been the difference in allowing one less TD, but there were a LOT of things that were wrong in this game, and I think it’s faulty to assume that an inconsistent 2017 version of Malcolm Butler may have been some type of savior for us. He may have helped a little, a lot, or not at all—but there were also a lot of things that happened away from him that may not have made it the slam dunk victory that some are suggesting.

There lies the issue. Nobody knows for sure if Butler would’ve helped, hurt whatever. My issue is not playing Butler and finding out one way or another when it became clear the gameplan was failing.

 

[supafly]

There lies the issue. Nobody knows for sure if Butler would’ve helped, hurt whatever. My issue is not playing Butler and finding out one way or another when it became clear the gameplan was failing.

I totally hear what you’re saying. It should be noted that we had held Philly to 10 points (increasing their total from 22 to 32) after the switch of Gilmore on Jeffrey, and that lasted up until the last 5 minutes of the game or so until they converted on those 3rd/4th down attempts to Ertz on the controversial TD to move back ahead, so I do think that gameplanning/scheme were initially at fault and things seemed to settle down once the adjustments were made.

In other words, the failing gameplan of not having Gilmore on Jeffrey did seem to be addressed, and things would’ve looked a lot differently on that backbreaking go-ahead TD with around 5 minutes remaining, that saw multiple crucial conversions to the TE and a very gutsy call by Pederson to go for it rather than punt. Would putting Butler in there have made the kind of difference that people are claiming? I’m not as sure, since once they made the adjustments they did seem to limit them much more effectively. Personally, I think Butler would’ve made more of a difference earlier on in the game.

 

[supafly]

KC had a long TD because Gilmore lost track of Hill, another long TD when Cassius Marsh forgot to set the edge. Maybe he would not have been a savior but our defensive scheme with Rowe on Jeffery and safety in slot played directly into the hands of the Eagles.

Yes, but it seems as though lots of people take issue with the fact that he wasn’t put in at halftime when we had allowed 22 points in the first half, and my point is that they did make some necessary adjustments to help limit them by switching Gilmore until the end of the game when the TE was utilized against Chung and their luck played a part on some crucial 3rd/4th down attempts.

We won’t even get into the call of the TD hitting the ground or the subsequent game ending strip sack of Brady on the next drive. These are all areas that I’m not as sure as others that Butler playing would’ve definitely mattered, that’s all.

 

[fair catch fryar]

It's got nothing to do with interpreting. Brady KNOWS damned well that his public support and effusive praise of Butler at this time would fan flames.

Flames that burn at Belichick.

This thing ain't over by a long shot.

Believe what you want. I'll believe that Brady doesn't roll like that, this year will be BB's last season as head coach and that there is blame to go around to both BB and and Malcolm Butler. We'll never know what happened.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

KC had a long TD because Gilmore lost track of Hill, another long TD when Cassius Marsh forgot to set the edge. Maybe he would not have been a savior but our defensive scheme with Rowe on Jeffery and safety in slot played directly into the hands of the Eagles.

I thought it was determined that Hill td was on McCourty not gilmore?

 

[Drewwho]

There is at least one play Bultler would have made 3rd &6 mid field. Badamosi cannot make an easy tackle and Philly converts and scores on that drive. Butler 98% makes that tackle.

...and that's just one play!

 

[pencilneckgeek]

That's the play that stands out to me, too, but that's a four point swing. It changes things, but there was a lot that went wrong on D, and saying Butler could have saved them is a stretch.

Better scheming overall could have helped though. Everybody expected Gilmore to be on Jeffries, and everyone was right about that except BB. Doing that from the outset probably makes a bigger difference than Butler payingp over Rowe in the big nickel or Richards in the dime. BB and the rocket scientist outsmarted themselves.