Dear Bill - Thanks for Giving Away the Super Bowl.

[102 Pat]

************, some of you need to get together in a circle and sing kumbaya...

 

[RobertWeathers]

That is not a difference between you and me. I never said BB should look the other way when it comes to Butler.

You wanted Malcolm to play when he clearly did not put himself in a position for consideration.

I said he should have come up with a way to punish him alone for his transgression(s), whatever they may be, not the whole team, even benching him for the first half.

So if Butler tells the coaching staff to f-off and hes gonna freelance you would play him?

How can Butler be assigned 100% of the blame when he never got a chance to play? That's 100% on BB.

Coaches decide who plays.

Players put themselves in position to eligible to play.

Malcolm didn't do that.

If Malcolm started and played like Rowe and it came out that he did some or all of those things, then it would be 100% on Butler.

Wrong. Thats on BB for allowing it to happen.BB did not put the team in a position to win because he allowed a freelancer to screw up the defense. See Jamie Collins.

If Rowe started and was pulled for Malcolm and Malcolm played like what was put out there, then that's 100% on Butler.

Mix of both. Coaches might not have done a good job on the matchups or scheme and the player didn't execute.

Malcolm did not put himself in a position to be considered eligible to help the defense so your scenario is irrelevant.

The fact that you do not assign BB any of the blame when 52 other players did (or in the case of the secondary tried, but failed to do) their job, is nuts.

It goes back to the fundamental disagreement.

You think it was worth a shot putting Malcolm out there.

BB didn't think he could have helped.

 

[Ring 6]

If he wasn't eligible he shouldn't have dressed. If it was that bad he shouldn't have dressed. If whatever he did was s

We’ve been over this many times. We had 3 other corners on the roster.

The why matters. It's just your being completely disingenuous saying discussion is futile and that we lack facts.

It is. You can’t judge a decision without knowing why it was made. To think otherwise is what is disingenuous.

We have an abundance of facts about what happened, the effect of it on the team, and the outcome of the game.

Sure we can say butler not playing possibly hurt the team in the field. But we dont know his state of mind either.

But more importantly you can’t judge a decision based upon what happened after it’s made while ignoring why.
If the decision was the defense will be better with zero snaps from a normal butler then it was a bad one. Clearly that wasn’t the decision.

If the decision was butler is out of control and shouldn’t be on the field if we can avoid it, it would depend on what made him out of control and how far gone he was.

If the decision was butler pissed away his right to play for this team then the rraukgnin thr field is irrelevant and the decision being good or bad is based upon the facts of what he did.

There's one question left is whether Butler did something so bad that Belichick was completely justified not playing him and sabotaging his teams chances of winning or even attempting to play him when the defense was getting hosed and there was nothing to lose.

You can’t judge the decision properly without that information

It’s interesting though that you give butler a pass for getting himself benched while not a single teammate or coach has said a word to defend him.

And even if it's something completely justified like he hit a women or fought a coach, or got caught doing some hard drugs.... you still have to answer for why he even dressed.

No you don’t. He was dressed because we had 3 other corners on the roster.
Choosing to play Rowe ahead of him because he let the team down with his actions during Sb week and leaving yourself with amendola at corner are very different things.
Everything is not yes or no, black or white.

 

[Joey007]

I really hope we get closure, but am not the most optimistic we ever will.

This decision will always leave a pit in my stomach.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You left off the fact that that his defense was failing, the players he was using were not getting the job done, and instead of changing it, he decided to try and win a shoot out.

....and you are supremely confident Malcolm would have been the cure? You know for a fact he was ready to play and the coaches could trust him to do his job out there?

He let his ego get in the way of trying to win, plain and simple.

BB or Malcolm?

to not give butler a single snap to see how he played means the BB would rather lose the game, then leave even the tiniest wiggle room for a player to step out of line in any way.

You have no idea what Malcolm did. We know what Malcolm did got his ass on the bench.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not blaming BB for Butler's attitude and actions. I am blaming BB for his lousy coaching decisions that cost my team the Super Bowl. And it took a long time in this thread, if they have even done it at all, for those putting it on Butler to say BB and his defensive coaches did a bad job on Sunday night, yourself included.

So in your eyes there is nothing a starting player can do that would deserve being benched?

I’m not sure who is putting on butler other than making the obvious conclusion that he must have done something and not just be the name thr dart hit when B.B. threw The Who sits out the Sb dart.

 

[chasa]

....and you are supremely confident Malcolm would have been the cure?

Are you being serious right now? How are you not understanding the situation?

The defense was getting gashed. instead of trying something different, the coaching staff decided to continue letting the defense get gashed.

I don't know if butler would have made a difference.

I DO know that by not trying the coaches made a conscious choice not to try and fix the problem.

EVERYONE is questioning why butler didnt play.

Fans, players on other teams, former players of this team, coaches of other teams, the media. Everyone not Bill, or Bill's cult are scratching their heads trying to find out what the deal is.

This is going to be one of those choices that patriot fans will be talking about for a LONG time.

 

[Ring 6]

I was just justifying that it’s more than just speculation that Butler was told of his benching at the Anthem. There is a good deal of circumstantial evidence for it.

What do you make of the fact that not a single player coach or team employee has said anything backing butler?

 

[Ring 6]

Are you being serious right now? How are you not understanding the situation?

The defense was getting gashed. instead of trying something different, the coaching staff decided to continue letting the defense get gashed.

I don't know if butler would have made a difference.

I DO know that by not trying the coaches made a conscious choice not to try and fix the problem.

EVERYONE is questioning why butler didnt play.

Fans, players on other teams, former players of this team, coaches of other teams, the media. Everyone not Bill, or Bill's cult are scratching their heads trying to find out what the deal is.

This is going to be one of those choices that patriot fans will be talking about for a LONG time.

Why would you assume that putting butler in the game us the only way they can make any changes?

 

[PittPatriot]

I think dressing him was purely a matter of numbers, , my belief is that Belichick would have preferred to make him inactive but numbers dictated dressing him.

Is it mandatory to have a certain number of active players?
How about we use that roster spot on someone who would have actually contributed?

 

[PatsDeb]

You wanted Malcolm to play when he clearly did not put himself in a position for consideration.



So if Butler tells the coaching staff to f-off and hes gonna freelance you would play him?



Coaches decide who plays.

Players put themselves in position to eligible to play.

Malcolm didn't do that.



Wrong. Thats on BB for allowing it to happen.BB did not put the team in a position to win because he allowed a freelancer to screw up the defense. See Jamie Collins.

Mix of both. Coaches might not have done a good job on the matchups or scheme and the player didn't execute.

Malcolm did not put himself in a position to be considered eligible to help the defense so your scenario is irrelevant.



It goes back to the fundamental disagreement.

You think it was worth a shot putting Malcolm out there.

BB didn't think he could have helped.

Yes, let's just ignore the entire season, particularly the 2nd half when Malcolm was out there playing, and the D was playing great, and speculate that Malcolm's play deteriorated so much (because you've already said it wasn't a moral issue) between the AFCCG, when he played 98% of the snaps, and the Super Bowl when the coach felt it necessary to bench him and notify his replacement about 5 minutes before the kickoff, and put him in for zero snaps despite said replacement getting torched, and say that BB didn't think he could have helped. You should change your name to robertheadintheclouds. It's more fitting.

 

[lancerman]

What do you make of the fact that not a single player coach or team employee has said anything backing butler?

Hightower

 

[Ring 6]

Are you being serious right now? How are you not understanding the situation?

The defense was getting gashed. instead of trying something different, the coaching staff decided to continue letting the defense get gashed.

I don't know if butler would have made a difference.

I DO know that by not trying the coaches made a conscious choice not to try and fix the problem.

EVERYONE is questioning why butler didnt play.

Fans, players on other teams, former players of this team, coaches of other teams, the media. Everyone not Bill, or Bill's cult are scratching their heads trying to find out what the deal is.

This is going to be one of those choices that patriot fans will be talking about for a LONG time.

And everyone questioning it doesn’t know the facts.

Do you notice that no one in the locker room has made any statement questioning it or supporting butler?
Don’t you find that odd?
If the team felt they “everyone” does why are t they ripping B.B. like you are, or at least making some type of comment?

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, let's just ignore the entire season, particularly the 2nd half when Malcolm was out there playing, and the D was playing great, and speculate that Malcolm's play deteriorated so much (because you've already said it wasn't a moral issue) between the AFCCG, when he played 98% of the snaps, and the Super Bowl when the coach felt it necessary to bench him and notify his replacement about 5 minutes before the kickoff, and put him in for zero snaps despite said replacement getting torched, and say that BB didn't think he could have helped. You should change your name to robertheadintheclouds. It's more fitting.

That clearly isn’t how this went down.

If it weren’t punishment/discipline he would have played at some point.

 

[Ring 6]

Hightower

What did hightower say?

And Hightower wasn’t in the locker room he is on ir.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

What do you make of the fact that not a single player coach or team employee has said anything backing butler?

Since when has anyone from the patriots come out and directly questioned Bill? Just because no one says anything doesn’t mean they aren’t thinking it. Hightower’s like of Browner’s instagram post is telling. He’s part of the organization, isn’t he?

 

[Ring 6]

Is it mandatory to have a certain number of active players?
How about we use that roster spot on someone who would have actually contributed?

Because you couldn’t go into a game with 3 corners. If 2 of them were injured then butler would have played.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Are you being serious right now? How are you not understanding the situation?

The defense was getting gashed. instead of trying something different, the coaching staff decided to continue letting the defense get gashed.

I don't know if butler would have made a difference.

Thats my point. I think the coaching staff tried different things but because the matchups sucked nothing worked.

I DO know that by not trying the coaches made a conscious choice not to try and fix the problem.

They tried to fix the problem but Malcolm was not part of the solution because they did not have the confidence and trust that he would have executed the game plan.

EVERYONE is questioning why butler didnt play.

Fans, players on other teams, former players of this team, coaches of other teams, the media. Everyone not Bill, or Bill's cult are scratching their heads trying to find out what the deal is.

This is going to be one of those choices that patriot fans will be talking about for a LONG time.

At least we can stop talking about Jimmy Grappolo now.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

So in your eyes there is nothing a starting player can do that would deserve being benched?

I’m not sure who is putting on butler other than making the obvious conclusion that he must have done something and not just be the name thr dart hit when B.B. threw The Who sits out the Sb dart.

Andy, I don’t think anyone here is questioning Bill’s authority on benching someone or that Butler screwed up. Just becuase Bill does it, however, does not mean he handled it right. He’s made plenty of mistakes before, as do all coaches/GMs.

 

[Ring 6]

Since when has anyone from the patriots come out and directly question Bill? Just because no one says anything doesn’t mean they aren’t thinking it. Hightower’s like of Browner’s instagram post is telling. He’s part of the organization, isn’t he?

A like of an Instagram post by a player on ir is all you got?
Perhaps you don’t have people questioning him from inside because they know the story.

You know as well as I do that if he was benched for no reason players would be complaining and questioning just like ex players have done, the difference being they weren't there.