Kraft admits he sold the team out

[Simpelton]

Civil perjury is rarely prosecuted in that courthouse or the one next door. Federal prosecutors have better things to do. What lying under oath does best is damage your case and reputation.

That's true, but I don't think perjury has to be prosecuted to be perjury.

 

[XLIX]

People should stop talking about fighting these cases in the SCOTUS, as the SCOTUS only decides to hear a select few cases every term.. so to assume that this would have been resolved there is erroneous, there is no evidence that they would have heard the case.

FYI the SCOTUS chooses to hear about 100-150 cases a year, from the 7,000 cases that is asked to rule on....

Agreed.

People are arguing all the reasons about why Brady dropped his appeal. I think it is no more complicated than his lawyers, who have ties to the Supreme Court, did a little background asking around and determined that the appeal had no chance of being heard. They knew it was a losing effort and recommended dropping it.

 

[Soliel]

I’ve been searching through it all looking for transcripts. There’s not much but I’m altering search criteria and finding some things that went on in the Court that I’d say come real close to perjury. It’s hard to read it as it’s almost as dumb as the transcript of Brady’s appeal in front of Goodell. That one is bad man, one part in particular.. the lawyer for Brady pointed out that there was no prescient for punishment of a player for being generally aware of something and that the nfl had never punished on the grounds of equipment. It’s convolluted

 

[lancerman]

This is just idiotic. WTF are you doing? "I'll say whatever it takes to win this argument"

Brady faught it as far as he could. How do you not understand that?

If he continued on and lost the appeal in the SC he could have possibly had the bogus suspension applied during the playoffs. Further, he found out his mother had cancer at that same time and decided that possibly missing games during the postseason and fighting Roger while his mother was fighting cancer wasn't worth it.

You'd have to be a complete f'ing tool to not know or understand that.

Here's what I think of you. You're a f'ing p***y. Plain and simple. You stretch a truth to satisfy your plight to be right..

Go hug your Principle and go f**k yourself.

Brady faught deflategate as far as he could without jeopardizing the season. He played 12 games, won the SB in historic fashion and hugged his Mom at the podium. Roger got the booing of his life.

You're classless bag of ****.

This is beyond pathetic. The hallmarks of a man secure in his opinion, crazy ranting, cursing, and personal attacks. Haha. You sure got me.

Here's the reality. Brady had options. He didn't take those options. Black and white fact right there. His team and NFLPA were ready to go to the SC. HE killed that avenue for his own personal reasons. He DID NOT take the fight as far as he could. There was a blatant legal path to keep the fight going. Hell he actually had a better argument that Kraft because he could say 2 judges ruled in his favor and that made this a disputed legal question for the SC.

You're just willing to excuse Brady for giving up and not Kraft out of pure bias. Just like you are willing to hug some local commercial Brady made that most of the world didn't as some sort of non direct passive aggressive shot at Goodell while the DAY AFTER it came out he was standing on stage smiling for camera's and shaking his hand and didn't say thing. Nor did he at the SB. The only person who even referenced deflategate at the Super Bowl was..... some owner, his name escapes me.

Here's the thing, I don't really care what some whose whose clearly having an unstable meltdown over football controversy from two years ago where we won the SB since and had our QB and coach hailed as the GOATs damn near universally by the sporting world thinks of me. You are ignoring the reality that Kraft only had bad options that were unlikely to succeed (and probably far less likely than Brady who could have taken it a step further). And ignoring that people who actually had their skin in the game and their names on the line, eventually got over it and are on good terms with the owner you hate and hasn't ranted even a fraction of fraction as much as you on this.

There's only one person who had lacked the class that enabled them to drag themselves low enough to go on a crazy expletive filled rant because of this.

But here's just the cold hard truth. You said Brady fought it as far as he could. That was a lie. You just made excuses for why he didn't. And that's just the only response I really even needed to this crazy post you just made. We are at the point now where I think you should just get over it. You clearly aren't able to handle this conversation anymore.

 

[lancerman]

Agreed.

People are arguing all the reasons about why Brady dropped his appeal. I think it is no more complicated than his lawyers, who have ties to the Supreme Court, did a little background asking around and determined that the appeal had no chance of being heard. They knew it was a losing effort and recommended dropping it.

The NFLPA said they were ready to support Brady in a SC court appeal. It's fine to say that it had very little chance of succeeding. But just keep in mind the common opinion on Kraft appealing or suing the league was that it also had next to no real chance of succeeding. Both had really poor hands to play. They could have played them if they REALLY wanted to. But now we are at a point of throwing stones over the reasons two men who had very limited and very bad options elected not to take them.

 

[lancerman]

I’ve been searching through it all looking for transcripts. There’s not much but I’m altering search criteria and finding some things that went on in the Court that I’d say come real close to perjury. It’s hard to read it as it’s almost as dumb as the transcript of Brady’s appeal in front of Goodell. That one is bad man, one part in particular.. the lawyer for Brady pointed out that there was no prescient for punishment of a player for being generally aware of something and that the nfl had never punished on the grounds of equipment. It’s convolluted

The thing was the NFL was arguing that the CBA afforded them a god clause as it pertained to punishments associated with "maintaining the integrity of the game" and unfortunately for us two judges on a three judge panel agreed. The whole thing is convoluted. The fact that Spygate from 7 years prior was invoked in the punishment was convoluted. The fact that the Well's report ignored scientific principles was convoluted. The fact that the Well's investigators just ranomally picked which gauge they wanted to believe was used while the person who used it said it was another one is convoluted.

The ****ty reality is that you had a bunch of jealous owners who were upset about Spygate and how it was handled without them getting any oversight over it (so they could screw us even more) and they used this as their opportunity to get a pound of flesh that they thought they were owed and Goodell and Wells and made sure to find something even if it wasn't really there. From there the CBA, the the appeal process, the clauses in the ownership agreements, were all so stacked against us that we had very little recourse.

 

[IllegalContact]

Leave it alone Andy. You're basically arguing with two jackasses that believe you can only Love Kraft or Hate Kraft. No middle ground. It's an all or nothing argument that has strayed into a Young v Montana tangent. Yay.

Here are your choices:

1. Love Kraft = Cannot criticize or mention that he acted like a coward.

2. Criticize his deflategate stance = Hate = Ungrateful = You must dismiss anything Kraft has done for this franchise or state or region.

3. Like Kraft = Great owner but acted weak and cowardly during both scandals. The first capitulation arguably led to the second.

Unfortunately #3 and other middling positions are not possible or permittable in this ridiculous argument.

Oh btw, If your kid gets punished in school by the Principle in a deflategate like manner ..... hug, praise, kiss and support the principle in public and in front of your kid. Because it's good to teach our sons that if you're going to lose a righteous battle it's better to capitulate like a coward. Holy **** Batman.

lol......you hate him

This was the only other option

 

[Simpelton]

The thing was the NFL was arguing that the CBA afforded them a god clause as it pertained to punishments associated with "maintaining the integrity of the game" and unfortunately for us two judges on a three judge panel agreed. The whole thing is convoluted. The fact that Spygate from 7 years prior was invoked in the punishment was convoluted. The fact that the Well's report ignored scientific principles was convoluted. The fact that the Well's investigators just ranomally picked which gauge they wanted to believe was used while the person who used it said it was another one is convoluted.

The ****ty reality is that you had a bunch of jealous owners who were upset about Spygate and how it was handled without them getting any oversight over it (so they could screw us even more) and they used this as their opportunity to get a pound of flesh that they thought they were owed and Goodell and Wells and made sure to find something even if it wasn't really there. From there the CBA, the the appeal process, the clauses in the ownership agreements, were all so stacked against us that we had very little recourse.

Exactly. In a situation like that Bill Belichick and the Patriot Way are clear. Don't give up prematurely, but don't go looking for hills to die on.

At a certain point the correct response is to be "on to Cincinatti." Fight the good fight, but don't get bogged down emotionally by any one defeat. Take your lumps and get ready to fight the next battle. Finding ways to win from where you are is a lot more like the New England Patriots than wasting time bewailing a defeat that is already virtually irreversible.

Because from my perspective, the Patriots employed the Patriot Way to perfection in Deflategate. They didn't get bogged down in the nonsense, they found a way to turn nearly everything that happened to them to their own advantage. The only thing that hurt was the draft, and the roster is so strong that we can probably absorb the hit, at least until the Brady era ends anyway.

 

[lancerman]

Exactly. In a situation like that Bill Belichick and the Patriot Way are clear. Don't give up prematurely, but don't go looking for hills to die on.

At a certain point the correct response is to be "on to Cincinatti." Fight the good fight, but don't get bogged down emotionally by any one defeat. Take your lumps and get ready to fight the next battle. Finding ways to win from where you are is a lot more like the New England Patriots than wasting time bewailing a defeat that is already virtually irreversible.

Because from my perspective, the Patriots employed the Patriot Way to perfection in Deflategate. They didn't get bogged down in the nonsense, they found a way to turn nearly everything that happened to them to their own advantage. The only thing that hurt was the draft, and the roster is so strong that we can probably absorb the hit, at least until the Brady era ends anyway.

To me it's just even more so about "you can only control the things you can control". Brady fought to a reasonable length. When it became a prolonged long shot that was going to be more of an investment than the reward was worth, he stopped. Kraft from the beginning was faced with options that only were bad one's that had very little if any chance of succeeding.

It's valiant to fight for what you believe in. It's stupid to fight a clear losing battle just for show in the face of more important things, like running and leading a team that's trying to win Super Bowls. Inevitably 4 games wasn't worth spending more of Brady's life in court and potentially being tied up in a Supreme Court case. Just like a 1st and 2nd round draft pick wasn't worth Kraft turning himself into Al Davis (Davis was fighting for a lot more than draft picks). There's a sense of proportions and a sense of what is realistic that you have to keep in mind in these situations. You never do things just for show. An appeal by Kraft would have been symbolic but ultimately meaningless. A suit by Kraft would have been futile and ultimately damaged his reputation with his working partners beyond repair. And at the end of the day, even if you are livid at Kraft for not going full bore, he's going down as one of the greatest owners ever, in the HOF, and the guy who is getting a big chunk of the credit for turning the franchise around.

 

[Real World]

So lies, unfair, and unjust treatment are acceptable if it means protecting the shield. How pathetic. This league under goodell deserves all the criticism and lost ratings it's been getting.

 

[Tunescribe]

This was the only other option

Peeing outdoors into the wind? Why did you do that?

 

[Soliel]

So lies, unfair, and unjust treatment are acceptable if it means protecting the shield. How pathetic. This league under goodell deserves all the criticism and lost ratings it's been getting.

I’ve been reading the court documents all morning and would have to agree with the notion that Goodell sand his team actually did tell a smart of lies in both court cases. They weren’t charged with perjury but did give false testimony and warped everything. Given that fact that the nfl lawyers were willing to take it to that level of twisting reality to fit the outcome. I guess if it were me I’d have tossed in, I’ll never like it that they gave up and I’ll never like the fact kraft didn’t do much about it all but after reading the court docs.. Jeez man what a cluster fok

It’s almost like they were daring Brady to continue in which case they would do the same and possibly the suspension happens at a worse time

 

[lancerman]

So lies, unfair, and unjust treatment are acceptable if it means protecting the shield. How pathetic. This league under goodell deserves all the criticism and lost ratings it's been getting.

The thing is... life isn't fair. You sometimes get a crap hand and you can either circle the tracks complaining about it to no end or you can just deal with what you can control, take care of business elsewhere and keep digging until you finally break through. Again if I thought there was tangible victory to be had by Kraft that he passed up, I'd be on Andy and Tony's side. But I really don't think there was. And I am satisfied that they all moved on and focused on another Super Bowl campaign than devoting time being locked up in appeals and courts with no real prospect of winning. I'll take the moral victory of the Super Bowl and the league having to deal with their lap dog getting booed while the rest of the sports world laughed in their face.

Incidentally, I really don't think the ratings have much to do with anything. Historically ratings in television have been trending down for years. The NFL until 2015 was a complete anomaly, now it's finally feeling the effects.

 

[IllegalContact]

Peeing outdoors into the wind? Why did you do that?

I know you are but what am I?

What is this? ****head hater week?

 

[IllegalContact]

So lies, unfair, and unjust treatment are acceptable if it means protecting the shield. How pathetic. This league under goodell deserves all the criticism and lost ratings it's been getting.

But the *****es won’t quit watching

Take a knee

 

[Ring 6]

No. Wells was responsible for the Wells Report. Goodell was responsible for the penalty. Do try to keep up.

Everything in the Wells Report could be taken for absolute gospel and still be used as grounds for a fine or a slap on the wrist rather than a 4 game suspension, and loss of a first and 4th round pick.

It is Goodell who was ultimately responsible for reviewing the "facts" and deciding what punishment to assess at the end of the day.

Semantics. Wells was hired to determine what happened. It was and had to be accepted as gospel because no one disputed it. When it came time to put on a defense Robert Kraft abstained.
In essence he admitted it was right by refusing to attempt to rebut it at all.
Given that the penalties were reasonable.

You are utterly naive to expect a bunch of rich billionaires to give up on getting their way simply because the facts don't line up with their preconceived notions. It's like you have no idea how rich people work. Once the penalty was assessed, egos are in play and facts go out the window.

What is naive is you thinking “rich people” don’t care about fact aand truth.
They had no reason to doubt the patriots guilt because the patriots ACCEPTED THE PUNISHMENT. You are trying to blame the other owners for not changing a penalty that kraft willingly accepted and never asked anyone to change or overturn. Why in the world would anyone think it was wrong if krafts first and immediate response was to accept it?

I don't believe there was a realistic option left when Kraft folded his hand. There was a bunch of symbolic gestures of defiance that might have boomeranged back on him and a wild goose chase or two, that was about it.

Because you don’t want to.
Filing an appeal and having a hearing is essentially due process. You are saying that someone accused has no realistic option of defending themselves. That is ridiculous.

As for why Kraft is buddy-buddy with Goodell now, I personally believe it's because he's done what a lot of fans in this thread need to do -- accept the penalty and move on. He's been shown that the Commissioner can make life inconvenient for him, so instead of being vindictive or out for revenge, he makes the moves he needs to make to try to prevent that from happening again by making plays to stay in the Commissioner's good graces.

If I am to believe your argument the following happened.
Goodell punished kraft.
Kraft was adamant that he was innocent.
Goodell told him don’t waste your time appealing because I want you to be guilty and even if you are innocent I am taking $1,000,000 of you money (literally stealing from him) I am taking away draft picks and I am going to make Tom Brady look like a lying cheater and make you play a quarter of a season with out him and if you don’t like it F U bevause this is that I want, you are being punished even though you are innocent and if you try to appeal I’m going to shove it further up your ass.
Kraft responded by NEVER EVER PUBLICLY CRITICIZING GOODELL, publicly hugging him, publicly praising and supporting him, offering him an extension, fighting for him when jones tried to squash the extension, essentially taking the guy who said I will screw you for doing nothing because I want to and working to save his job.
If you are right about what kraft did, he is fat worse than I imagined.

again this isn't a democracy, the NFL is an oligarchy, and if an oligarch doesn't know how to get cozy with the enemy, his rule in the oligarchy will be pretty short.

Goodell works for kraft he isn’t the enemy he is the employee. An employee that kraft is fighting to keep in his job.

There is a process. When there is a complaint the league investigates. The commissioner assessed a penalty based upon the investigation then the team and/or player makes there case in appeal. Kraft chose to rest without uttering a word

Your argument is the power is in the ownership so the owner has no power.

I have a question for you. When the league wants to do something their process is that they have this thing, I believe it’s called a vote. And the majority vote decides what is done. I think there is a term for that. Is it democracy?

I understand you learned a new word and want to look smart throwing it around but when you misuse it you look stupid. The league is not an oligarchy

 

[Ring 6]

It's been years since I read the article so I'm not sure I could dig it up now. It was part of the federal court procedings, Goodell's legal team was trying to misrepresent something that Brady said as part of the appeals process as a confession of wrongdoing, Brady's team objected, Judge Berman ordered the league to cough up the transcript of the appeals process to prove who was right, they hemmed and hawed and drug their heels but eventually had to give it to him and it proved the NFL team to be lying. Last time I checked misrepresenting a statement under oath when you either know or should have known better is lying under oath and therefore perjury.

Just admit you are wrong.
Goodell made a statement in his appeal findings to the effect that Brady said the only thing he talked to dorito dink about was ball deflation the next day. In fact the transcript showed that Brady’s testimony was different than that.
The NFL lawyer repeated that in the trail and after that people reviewing the trial pointed out it was factually incorrect.
That is not perjury.
In fact Goodell did not utter a word in federal court so it would be impossible for him to commit perjury.
It will be interesting to see if you can admit you are wrong.

 

[Ring 6]

If I recall correctly, part of the issue was that the statements were not made under oath.

It was a factual misstatement in his appeal findings. He never spoke in federal court.

 

[Ring 6]

How about if the Steelers are already down 30 points and don't alter the game plan? How about if the run game is getting stuffed and losing yards at every turn and the coach keeps stubbornly running on first down?

If after being down 30 the Steelers bring in some developmental guys who need reps and go to the backup quarterback, is that in some way dishonorable to you.

At some point when you're far enough in the red, it becomes about the next game rather than this one. At a certain point you have to accept the reality in front of you and deal with the situation based on where you are right now, rather than where your overinflated sense of justice tells you you "should" be.

I'm seeing this "they should have appealed" thing in light of what happened to Brady's appeal. Remember, not only did Brady's appeal fail spectacularly, but Goodell literally committed perjury to try to lie about the nature of the appeals process to Judge Berman. This is not a man whose mind is open.

I don't actually disagree that it might have been useful to exhaust the process just to say you did it, but you're naive if you think that would have really changed anything. A course of action with a 0% chance of success is not actually, by definition, an "option," so IMHO it doesn't count as not "exhausting your options."

I see this as Kraft altering his game plan. He's an investor. His job is to assess risks and decide where to put his money. He was done putting his money behind bad investments and wrote the Deflategate process off as a sunk cost -- fine, it's literally his job to make that determination. He made the call that the best remaining course of action was to change the playbook and cozy up to the commissioner. I can't say he's wrong.

Your analogy is terrible. Kraft wasn’t down 30 in the 4th quarter. He didnt take the fiekd for the kickoff.

Kraft had a right to appeal. No one who has ever appealed to Goodell has received further retribution. Ever. Kraft would have appealed the prosecutions findings to the “judge”. You argument here is that instead of presenting an argument as to why he felt he was innocent Kraft should suck up to the man who you think would not treat him fairly under any circumstances BEFORE mounting a defense. That is beyond stupid.
You are literally telling him to put his hands down to his side and let the bully beat him to a pulp because maybe that way the bully will become his friend. I serioudly hope that either you don’t have children or you are that saying this because it’s the only way to make argument you know is wrong.
IF you believe this and do have kids please let their mother help them if they ever encounter a bully and stay out of it.

 

[Simpelton]

It was a factual misstatement in his appeal findings. He never spoke in federal court.

If that misstatement was submitted as evidence, that is perjury.