The Defense: Why I'm Relatively Optimistic

[supafly]

Yeah, in fact is has. Many times.

Super Bowl IIGreen Bay PackersFinished 6-7-1Super Bowl IVKansas City CheifsFinished 7-5-2Super Bowl XIVPittsburght SteelersFinished 9-7Super Bowl XVOakland RaidersFinished 7-9Super Bowl XVISan Francisco 49ersFinished 3-6 (NFL Players Striken Season)Super Bowl XXINew York GiantsFinished 6-9Super Bowl XXIIWashington RedskinsFinished 7-9Super Bowl XXVNew York GiantsFinished 8-8Super Bowl XXXIIIDenver BroncosFinished 6-10Super Bowl XXXVINew England PatriotsFinished 9-7Super Bowl XXXVIITampa Bay BuccaneersFinished 7-9Super Bowl XLPittsburght SteelersFinished 8-8Super Bowl XLIIIPittsburght SteelersFinished 9-7Super Bowl XLVINew York GiantsFinished 9-7Super Bowl XLVIIBaltimore RavensFinished 8-8

I'm stunned that you'd actually have to take the time to point this out to someone. Holy ****.

 

[Angelpats]

The only thing optimistic about this defense is that it can't get any worse, unless we face cutler and he lights us up too.

 

[RobertWeathers]

We've also added Butler and Marsh.

Yea they've been good but not as good as the players they replaced

 

[mosi]

If you're optimistic, i want what you're drinking or smoking. This team couldn't beat a div 2 college team. Not all of them anyway. They are egregiously, horrifically bad.

They may be the first sb winner to not make playoffs. Sorry, could happen.

Dude, people here are *****ing like this every year after every loss. In 2002, 2003 in 2004 after the Steelers and Miami's losses, in 2005 after EVERY game and at the start of every game in 2010-2011 and in 2014. The only year people did not was last year - with the exception of after the Seattle game. People have learned nothing from watching the Pats over the last 16 YEARS!

 

[Bruins29]

I'm stunned that you'd actually have to take the time to point this out to someone. Holy ****.

Yep someone who has been a member here 6 years and has 2500 posts did not know this.

Normally I would have very colorful things to say about this, but its just not worth it anymore. A long time respected member of this forum and I were discussing this place last night. The prognosis is that the board has really gone down hill over the last couple of years and many great posters are not posting anymore. This used to be a great place to read and discuss patriots football. However, it seems that the forum now spends most of its time either trying to calm these crazy panicky posters, educate the completely moronic, defend itself against trolls, or get into political pissing matches.

Some people dont realize that this is a discussion forum, not their personal blog. We have one poster who has over 1200 posts in just over one month. That is not discussing football and to be honest I think a lot of the good posters left or are leaving because they dont want to be on a forum with people who are either mentally ill or just losers.

There are some awesome posters here and they know who they are, but this place needs a major catharsis or its going to lose all the good members and just end up some espn pink hat forum or something.

 

[stephens44]

Nope.

The absence of three decent players is not enough of a talent drain to explain what is going on. Nor is it a sufficient explanation when you add in the difference in schedule (which isn't much, given how much Car and Hou were struggling heading into their respective match ups).

There simply must be something else going on. Which, I suppose, is good news. That "something" might be fixable in ways that a pure talent deficiency isn't.

Well, seems my theory is right in the ballpark. How Did Patriots’ Defense Become So Overrated Over Offseason?
"The Patriots’ defense was slightly overrated by their lack of strength of schedule, however. The Patriots’ defense actually was average last season, according to FootballOutsiders.com’s DVOA metric."
"The Patriots are being forced to start undrafted rookie defensive lineman Adam Butler, who was a summer stud but has regressed since seeing his usage expand. Fourth-round draft pick Deatrich Wise has been a nice surprise, but that he’s playing as much as he is just shows the Patriots’ lack of edge depth."

 

[Ring 6]

Well, seems my theory is right in the ballpark. How Did Patriots’ Defense Become So Overrated Over Offseason?
"The Patriots’ defense was slightly overrated by their lack of strength of schedule, however. The Patriots’ defense actually was average last season, according to FootballOutsiders.com’s DVOA metric."
"The Patriots are being forced to start undrafted rookie defensive lineman Adam Butler, who was a summer stud but has regressed since seeing his usage expand. Fourth-round draft pick Deatrich Wise has been a nice surprise, but that he’s playing as much as he is just shows the Patriots’ lack of edge depth."

Last years defense was great. Measuring it by statistics it is not concerned with achieving is silly.

That said the DT position is definitely a problem. Butler is in over his head and needs to be pulled back to a passing down player. Branch has to get right.
Aside from the broken plays what has stood out the last 2 weeks is the consistent 3+ yard runs. We are living in 2nd and less than 7 and 3rd and short.

 

[Oswlek]

Well, seems my theory is right in the ballpark.

Nope. None of this is new information... and none of it sufficiently explains the dropoff.

 

[JMC00]

Pass rush isn't the problem. Pats are 4th in the league at generating pressure rushing 4. It's the f**king communication problems in the back end.

 

[JMC00]

Fourth-round draft pick Deatrich Wise has been a nice surprise, but that he’s playing as much as he is just shows the Patriots’ lack of edge depth."

What? This is a stupid f**king take. That should have absolutely no correlation. This is like saying Kareem Hunt is playing as much as he is because Chiefs don't have RB depth.

 

[stephens44]

Nope. None of this is new information... and none of it sufficiently explains the dropoff.

Well, like I said, just my opinion. Whats your theory, do you have one or are you here just to sharp shoot?

 

[Oswlek]

Well, like I said, just my opinion. Whats your theory, do you have one or are you here just to sharp shoot?

The obvious answer seems to be a frustrating proclivity toward leaving receivers uncovered.

I don't know the cause of that, other than it isn't rooted in athleticism or the loss of a few mediocre defensive ends.

 

[stephens44]

I don't know the cause of that, other than it isn't rooted in athleticism or the loss of a few mediocre defensive ends.

Obviously the secondary has communication issues, which I acknowledged...
My opinion remains as previously stated: "We're getting killed in the passing game due to a lack of pressure on the QB, lack of leadership and the secondary cant seem to get on the same page. If we had at least one solid pass rusher like Jones, that might be enough to change the current dynamic. This D won't gel without a playmaker in the front 7 IMHO."

 

[Uptown]

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Pretty good breakdown here: [OC] Film Room: Why the Patriots' defense is so bad | Video breakdown looking at their run defense on first downs, secondary miscommunication, and poor assignment execution • r/nfl

I'm very optimistic that they turn things around based on the type of problems they've had. BB/Patricia will fix the issues.

 

[ohiopatsfan]

I don't get to watch too many games out here in NE Ohio but the few that I have seen show me that the team has virtually no pass rush and QB pressure is a forgotten art. Losing three DE's from last year's Super Bowl team as well as a promising rookie (Derek Rivers) left a big hole. Ealy was unable to fit in, forcing BB to improvise (Cassius Marsh and Keionta Davis). Actually, I think the biggest loss was Ninkovich. BB probably hoped to have Nink available for the last year of his contract to give Flowers some rest and allow Wise and Rivers to develop more slowly while learning from a vet. Also, at DT, Branch's quality of play fell off drastically and it showed in the run defense. Lack of a sufficient pass rush and the threat of a running back breaking a big gain put more pressure on the Pats DB's, who must engage receivers longer, sometimes with disastrous results. Last year, everything fell into place for the Pats, aided by a weak schedule. This year, it's like everything bad you could conceive of happening has happened.

 

[Oswlek]

Pretty good breakdown here: [OC] Film Room: Why the Patriots' defense is so bad | Video breakdown looking at their run defense on first downs, secondary miscommunication, and poor assignment execution • r/nfl

I'm very optimistic that they turn things around based on the type of problems they've had. BB/Patricia will fix the issues.

Agreed. What was ostensibly a video about NE's weaknesses paradoxically made me more optimisitc.

 

[Oswlek]

but the few that I have seen show me that the team has virtually no pass rush

Pass rush is, oddly, one of the few areas in the defense that hasn't been a major problem.

 

[ohiopatsfan]

As I said, the times I got to watch a full game were very limited, but, in those times, while the Pats occasionally got to the QB, I didn't see the kind of pressure I saw last year. Most of the QB's in the earlier games were mobile, which might explain it. If the pass rush is not there against a stationary target like McCown, then I sense some real concern.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

I'm optimistic about the future, and realistic about the past.