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Stephon Gilmore

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I like the poster but hate the post. Gilmore didn't give up 140 yards rushing. He didn't miss an easy tackle like Rowe did. He didn't fail miserably to set the edge like Flowers did ( Nink says hi ). Gilmore got beat on fewer plays in man than Butler. Even McCourty had some bad plays in coverage. You can get on Gilmore for his bonehead penalties and the Whitaker play but this is a collective failure of gross proportions.

Maybe Gilmore gets benched. Maybe not. A lot of this will be fixed between weeks 5 and 6. One way or another.
 
Gilmore said he jammed the receivers chest and the movement of the receiver brought his hands up to his face.
Typically this isn't called it is what it is.
Gilmore is not the weak link it's playcalling and scheme.
Coaching is absolutely to blame here.
If their are communication issues it's the defensive coaching staff
 
We have been poor in every aspect of the game this season. If we didn't have Brady we would be 1-3 and some will argue saying 0-4.

Positives though for this season so far;
Wise looks a very capable pass rusher, flowers has done good as well.

Brady is doing his best with the pressure that is on him. We are missing jules more than anyone can think.

Negatives;

Secondary have been woeful. There's some major problems but by the sounds of it from the players they just don't seem to be communicating enough. This can be fixed, takes time. People need to remember Revis and Browner picked the system up very quickly. It's taken Gilmore longer, he needs to develop a friendship with his fellow corners and safety's.

Linebackers; Have been on and off... worst thing is setting the edge, but nothing great. Having Hightower back is a huge bonus and will help. We need to get some speed in there.

D-Line;
Setting the edge needs to be improved. Really poor this year. Ninko has been a bigger lost than we all thought it would be. Ninko had a very high football IQ. Brown & Branch haven't done well.. few plays last night they stopped the run but still not effective enough.

Flowers and wise; Wise has been good for us, him and flowers could make a nice combo in a few years time. Both need work on setting the edge. Hopefully will happen sooner than later.

Penalties;

To many stupid ones. Has cost us the game yesterday and the amount of field positions we must give up scares me

Large chunks of yardage;
I cannot remember from last season when we gave up yardage as easy as we have done this year. Our D is set up for bend but don't break.. well at the moment it's to easy. At least make one stop before the 4th QTR before they punt.

Lastly...

We have to as fans remain positive, despite the poor start. We haven't been great, good or anything we have been poor. I have full faith in BB, JMD and MP that this will turn around. We can still finish the season 14-2 or 12-4. Yes it's going to hard but the team is good enough. We need to fix the stupid mistakes and start trusting each other.


We go again on Thursday. Remember we gotta believe guys!
 
Gilmore said he jammed the receivers chest and the movement of the receiver brought his hands up to his face.
Typically this isn't called it is what it is.
Gilmore is not the weak link it's playcalling and scheme.
Coaching is absolutely to blame here.
If their are communication issues it's the defensive coaching staff

I dont see how I can agree with it being playcalling and scheme when Gilmore just cant get his coverages straight and by multiple accounts the schemes played are pretty basic and can't be dumbed down any further.

As broken down in the rewatch thread, the play at the end of the first half was just Gilmore not paying attention to Rowe because he was repositioning Butler for whatever reason.

I think it is very telling that Reiss included this little paragraph in his newest blogpost:

That might explain why defensive coordinator Matt Patricia yanked Gilmore for the start of the second half, replacing him in the base defense. But Gilmore returned one play later when his replacement, Rowe, left with a groin injury.

Similarly, I think Dussault on PatsPropaganda also said it well:

I’ll review the film before crucifying him too hard, but what’s apparent is that New England’s defense has been tough for Gilmore to pick up. Coming in we knew he could play man, but what we didn’t know was that he would struggle with the varied zone/pattern read coverages the Patriots like to run. If there’s a silver lining here it’s that we don’t have to hear about how the problem is the kinds of coverages the Pats are playing. It’s just that they’re not playing together.
 
IMO Gilmore is the being treated as the easy scapegoat for fans but I don’t really have a big issue with him. There were communication issues across the board with the secondary yesterday and Rowe, Butler and McCourty all messed up at times as I recall. Gilmore seemed a little more lost but that’s understandable considering he is the newest in the system, and when his elders are out of position then he’s definitely gonna he lost as hell. Yes, he had some game breaking penalties but I’m extremely hesitant to put blame on him for the hands to the face stuff. The one, he basically just gently caressed the receiver’s chin guard with his fingertip and it was a penalty which is insanity. The second, they didn’t even show the replay at an angle that shows the offense - all we saw was him jam a guy and the WR’s head jerk back - which could happen for whatever reason and isn’t necessarily due to Gilmore’s hands being in his face. Furthermore, that happened far far away from the play so it seems really hard to beat on him for it even if it really did happen. Was more like Team Boger hunting for any little thing looking like an infraction on third down.

Y’all can hate on him if you want but I don’t think he was “the problem” that the board appears to think he is. The secondary as a whole is not playing together which only confuses the new guy further. If they can get it together then he will be in better shape too. Don’t worry about the idiotic “penalties.”
 
IMO Gilmore is the being treated as the easy scapegoat for fans but I don’t really have a big issue with him. There were communication issues across the board with the secondary yesterday and Rowe, Butler and McCourty all messed up at times as I recall. Gilmore seemed a little more lost but that’s understandable considering he is the newest in the system, and when his elders are out of position then he’s definitely gonna he lost as hell. Yes, he had some game breaking penalties but I’m extremely hesitant to put blame on him for the hands to the face stuff. The one, he basically just gently caressed the receiver’s chin guard with his fingertip and it was a penalty which is insanity. The second, they didn’t even show the replay at an angle that shows the offense - all we saw was him jam a guy and the WR’s head jerk back - which could happen for whatever reason and isn’t necessarily due to Gilmore’s hands being in his face. Furthermore, that happened far far away from the play so it seems really hard to beat on him for it even if it really did happen. Was more like Team Boger hunting for any little thing looking like an infraction on third down.

Y’all can hate on him if you want but I don’t think he was “the problem” that the board appears to think he is. The secondary as a whole is not playing together which only confuses the new guy further. If they can get it together then he will be in better shape too. Don’t worry about the idiotic “penalties.”

It’s pretty evident he isn’t comfortable with the defensive system.
 
BB in his career never struck gold on corners except the one year when we had Revis and Browner and we did pretty good.
Letting Logan Ryan go was a mistake.
Malcolm Butler says "Hi"
 
I don’t understand the gilmour hate. I see upside, I see fewer completions against gilmour. I see a corner that tackles.
Blame the 0 pass rush and suspect safety play. Oh and Monty Beisel is back under the name Kyle vannoy
 
IMO Gilmore is the being treated as the easy scapegoat for fans but I don’t really have a big issue with him. There were communication issues across the board with the secondary yesterday and Rowe, Butler and McCourty all messed up at times as I recall. Gilmore seemed a little more lost but that’s understandable considering he is the newest in the system, and when his elders are out of position then he’s definitely gonna he lost as hell. Yes, he had some game breaking penalties but I’m extremely hesitant to put blame on him for the hands to the face stuff. The one, he basically just gently caressed the receiver’s chin guard with his fingertip and it was a penalty which is insanity. The second, they didn’t even show the replay at an angle that shows the offense - all we saw was him jam a guy and the WR’s head jerk back - which could happen for whatever reason and isn’t necessarily due to Gilmore’s hands being in his face. Furthermore, that happened far far away from the play so it seems really hard to beat on him for it even if it really did happen. Was more like Team Boger hunting for any little thing looking like an infraction on third down.

Y’all can hate on him if you want but I don’t think he was “the problem” that the board appears to think he is. The secondary as a whole is not playing together which only confuses the new guy further. If they can get it together then he will be in better shape too. Don’t worry about the idiotic “penalties.”
Trouble is, Gilmore is lost but he's directing other players and screwing everybody else up too. Fozzie's TD where Gilmore got all excited about McCaffrey and got both himself and DMac out of position. Someone pointed out another play where he was trying to direct Butler and misread something. He's just not doing his job and he's keeping his teammates from doing theirs.
 
Trouble is, Gilmore is lost but he's directing other players and screwing everybody else up too. Fozzie's TD where Gilmore got all excited about McCaffrey and got both himself and DMac out of position. Someone pointed out another play where he was trying to direct Butler and misread something. He's just not doing his job and he's keeping his teammates from doing theirs.

Which is probably why he was benched to start the 2nd half. It’s good to direct another teammate on where to position himself before the play. It’s bad to not know who you’re supposed to be covering.
 
I am annoyed with Gilmore as anyone, he was the reason the Patriots lost the game. He had two penalties that nullified good plays by the defense on 3rd down and he has been lost in coverage.

However, the problems are much more pervasive than Gilmore. Nobody is in the right spot, people aren't tackling well. Gilmore isn't the reason Newton looked like a hall of fame QB out there. Guys were wide open, Newton had all day, and that makes it easy.

This defense is worse than even 2011. At least in 2011, they turned the ball over. This team isn't even doing that very well.
 
I'm going to agree with the posters here who are a little more optimistic. What we are seeing is a systemic breakdown, caused by communication issues, and confusion regarding the defensive playcalls. In 2011, we had a pretty serious talent issue. If you asked me which one is easier to fix, I'd say our current situation is easier to fix. I'm not panicking yet.
 
I notice Gilmore being out of position at times (in real time and either my mental processing is getting significantly better or the errors were that glaring...and I don't think my mental acuity is getting better).

That said, we'll have to see some progression from here and we'll trust BB and the staff as he won't keep a player out there because he has a big paycheck (if he isn't doing his job). Definitely feels wrong that we are having such mental lapses and Gilmore seems to be one of the biggest differences in the backfield.

Hoping our D can make it's way back to middle of the pack by Thanksgiving.
 
If you asked me which one is easier to fix, I'd say our current situation is easier to fix.
I don't think our situation is fixable. Certainly not for this year, that's clear.

The problem is for future years. Gilmore has little trade value at this point, so if he's traded we'll eat the $32M or so remaining on his K.

Unfortunately for that option, the Gilmore signing has signalled to other players that teamwork and football intelligence are not valued, at least financially. So players are not going to work with the team, but instead on their own stats; nor will they give the Patriots a discount. And the loss of this season will make it that much harder to recruit.

All of this was utterly obvious to me and to anyone else who looked at the Gilmore signing objectively. That it wasn't obvious to the Patriots staff is profoundly concerning, maybe even more concerning than Gilmore's play. I called what's happening on the field now pretty precisely many times in the preseason: the team is playing like a team without chemistry, which is precisely what I said Gilmore's signing would do. And I'm hardly a football expert - so why couldn't the Pats staff see this?

In conclusion, I don't see a path to recovery, for a minimum of seven or eight years. Basically Gilmore's contract is going to have to expire and then there will have to be a rebuilding. That's assuming, optimistically, that this Gilmore signing was a one-off, $40M error. But if we take a pessimistic, worst case scenario, and if we posit that the Gilmore signing was not a one-off error but was instead a symptom of a change in the decision-making process or efficiency of the organization, then we are talking about decades, not years, to recover. However, there is insufficient information yet to suggest that this latter scenario applies.
 
In conclusion, I don't see a path to recovery, for a minimum of seven or eight years.

I mean there are overreactions and then there is this... mindblowing..

But if we take a pessimistic, worst case scenario, and if we posit that the Gilmore signing was not a one-off error but was instead a symptom of a change in the decision-making process or efficiency of the organization, then we are talking about decades, not years, to recove

...
 
Just a reminder guys - Gilmore is new to the team this year and it’s week 4. I think it’s a little foolish to declare his signing a total bust and give up on him completely already.
 
Gilmore is being paid like a Shut Down CB so he shouldn't be making Rookie mistakes. Mike Evans and Julio Jones are coming up and the Schedule good luck trying to outscore them.
 
Gilmore had a bad game and ultimately cost the Patriots the game yesterday because of his penalty - though I'm not certain there's anything he could do; it was a legitimate call but ticky-tack and one of those things that's physically impossible to prevent and could be called on every play, since he went for the jam, the receiver put his head down, and Gilmore jostled his facemask rather than his chest.

However, on the year he's been pretty solid overall. Hasn't given up too many completions. Miscommunications happen, and it's not entirely uncertain to me any of those plays were on him rather than Rowe.
 
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