Bob Kraft's HOF Legacy

[shmessy]

Bob Kraft certainly does deserve a place in the hall of fame. He suckers patsfans into cheering for his ass year after year even though he doesn't give a **** about the fans except for the amount of money he can hustle from the fans. Definitely hall of fame worthy.

Can't wait for the opening night cheers when he comes out with the Lombardi. Disgusting...

**** him as a person.

The only three good things he did as an owner was not moving the team, hiring BB and staying the **** away from football operations. I am happy if he continues to do that and just keeps playing with his blondie girl toy.

Enjoying those metal bleachers at Sullivan Stadium and paying PSL's much?

If you don't think an owner has any bearing on a team, it's stadium and fan experience, then Google Woody Johnson and Dan Snyder.

Honestly, the willful blindness of some people...........

I, too, can't stand the cave-ins for "the good of the league" , and abhor his choice of mentally unstable political pals. But real life isn't a comic book. People are complex. The last purported perfect human died over 2,000 years ago (unless you are North Korean).

In your opinion, if he so personally sold out Brady during Spygate then why is Brady, his dad and mom and entire family all mushy over him now? Is Brady stupid?

Don't you feel slightly silly fighting Kraft on behalf of the QB who absolutely loves him and built his home next to him? Brady does to Kraft almost as obviously as Edelman does to Brady.

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[Wheelman]

Enjoying those metal bleachers at Sullivan Stadium and paying PSL's much?

If you don't think an owner has any bearing on a team, it's stadium and fan experience, then Google Woody Johnson and Dan Snyder.

Honestly, the willful blindness of some people...........

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Why are you quoting me man. I don't want to talk about Bob Kraft right now. And I'm not talking about fan experience. I'm talking about immorally corrupt human beings. But I don't want to talk about them right now. Come back another day. Thanks!

Oh yeah, willful blindness, that works both ways you know. Just think about it! I'm not calling you blind, or insulting you, or anything, just think about it as a human being.

 

[shmessy]

Why are you quoting me man. I don't want to talk about Bob Kraft right now. And I'm not talking about fan experience. I'm talking about immorally corrupt human beings. But I don't want to talk about them right now. Come back another day. Thanks!

Oh yeah, willful blindness, that works both ways you know. Just think about it! I'm not calling you blind, or insulting you, or anything, just think about it as a human being.

Multi-quoted by mistake. My bad. Not sure why your post was included with the one I was responding to. I was responding to the poster who wrote he had very little responsibility to the success of the franchise other than keeping the team here, hiring BB and getting out of the way. It ain't that simple.

There is only ONE reason the New England Patriots exist today and why 68,000 fannies will be sitting in a beautiful stadium on God-forsaken Route 1 in Foxborough on a warm Thursday night in 2 weeks that will be televised nation-wide.

Bob Kraft.

If not for him, Tom Brady would be a quarterback in Jacksonville or Buffalo and Bill Belichick would be devising brilliant game plans in LA or Houston.

The spot where Gillette stands now would be a derelict harness racing/dog track hosting vast flea markets on Sunday mornings.

Best regards.

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[Wheelman]

Multi-quoted by mistake. My bad. Not sure why your post was included with the one I was responding to.

Best regards.

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Ah! No worries! Have a good day!

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

I've been watching the NFL for over 30 years and have seen a lot of owners either suck or can't help themselves from screwing up a good thing. While I can pick apart Bob Kraft's flaws in a vacuum, he actually looks pretty awesome in comparison to his ownership brethren. Historically, not just contemporary.

HOF in that context? Without a doubt.

Regards,
Chris

 

[luuked]

Enjoying those metal bleachers at Sullivan Stadium and paying PSL's much?

If you don't think an owner has any bearing on a team, it's stadium and fan experience, then Google Woody Johnson and Dan Snyder.

Honestly, the willful blindness of some people...........

I, too, can't stand the cave-ins for "the good of the league" , and abhor his choice of mentally unstable political pals. But real life isn't a comic book. People are complex. The last purported perfect human died over 2,000 years ago (unless you are North Korean).

In your opinion, if he so personally sold out Brady during Spygate then why is Brady, his dad and mom and entire family all mushy over him now? Is Brady stupid?

Don't you feel slightly silly fighting Kraft on behalf of the QB who absolutely loves him and built his home next to him? Brady does to Kraft almost as obviously as Edelman does to Brady.

.

I am not fighting him on behalf of anyone. He lost any credibility as an owner with me because of hypocritical behaviour during deflategate and also any empathy I had for him as a human due to ring related decisions.

The only way any owner could screw up the golden goose he signed with BB is by meddling in football operations and thats what I gave him credit for.

There is no discussion on that from my point of view because not even Brady himself coming by and explaining what a wonderful person Kraft is will change any opinion I have on that old ****.

 

[shmessy]

I am not fighting him on behalf of anyone. He lost any credibility as an owner with me because of hypocritical behaviour during deflategate and also any empathy I had for him as a human due to ring related decisions.

The only way any owner could screw up the golden goose he signed with BB is by meddling in football operations and thats what I gave him credit for.

There is no discussion on that from my point of view because not even Brady himself coming by and explaining what a wonderful person Kraft is will change any opinion I have on that old ****.

So you are a better reference source on the subject than Tom Brady. That is remarkable on several levels.

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[MassPats38]

Every time you drive into the parking lot of Patriot Place to either see a game, eat a meal, go to the Hall, etc. sort of contradicts that last statement.

Route 1 in Foxborough is Alabama-level depressing. Kraft built a freaking miracle there.

Contradiction? Not at all. As this is a HOF discussion, how many titles did the mall and stadium win for the Patriots, or is this construction a reflection of the success and marketability of the team on the field due to the head coach and GM?

I credit Kraft for putting money into the team facilities, but none of that really makes a difference if the team consistently has a bad coach and GM. I expect the Jets, Raiders (in the Davis years), and Cowboys (while Jones was actively interfering in personnel management) would not be credited with building a successful organization if they built the same as nobody goes to shrines celebrating consistent losers.

 

[lurker1965]

**** him as a person.

The only three good things he did as an owner was not moving the team, hiring BB and staying the **** away from football operations. I am happy if he continues to do that and just keeps playing with his blondie girl toy.

Um, did you enjoy the tax raise for building a new stadium? Oh, wait, that didn't happen. Nevermind.

The GOAT and the GOAT coach didn't save the team from moving to ST Louis and didn't build Gillette Stadium with his own money.

Kraft is every bit as responsible for what the Patriots are today as Brady and Belichick. They are a triumvirate.

Think about it: If ANY of those 3 weren't in the picture, the picture would be nowhere near it is today.

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Bingo!! He has Bingo!!

I am not fighting him on behalf of anyone. He lost any credibility as an owner with me because of hypocritical behaviour during deflategate and also any empathy I had for him as a human due to ring related decisions.

The only way any owner could screw up the golden goose he signed with BB is by meddling in football operations and thats what I gave him credit for.

There is no discussion on that from my point of view because not even Brady himself coming by and explaining what a wonderful person Kraft is will change any opinion I have on that old ****.

I understand. I don't like it either.

But think of what you are saying. "The old man is not bitter and is too forgiving for my taste."

I agree.... sort of. I just am able to admit my position is, well, douchey - but I kind of agree. (Hey, Jesus forgives, but I ain't Jesus. )

Not to those quoted specifically: Many of you are spoiled. Kraft only hit .600 not 1.000. (Sorry for the baseball.)

 

[shmessy]

Contradiction? Not at all. As this is a HOF discussion, how many titles did the mall and stadium win for the Patriots, or is this construction a reflection of the success and marketability of the team on the field due to the head coach and GM?

I credit Kraft for putting money into the team facilities, but none of that really makes a difference if the team consistently has a bad coach and GM. I expect the Jets, Raiders (in the Davis years), and Cowboys (while Jones was actively interfering in personnel management) would not be credited with building a successful organization if they built the same as nobody goes to shrines celebrating consistent losers.

1) Who went out and got Belichick when he was not such a hot commodity?

2) Why did Belichick quit as HC of the NYJ?

Both answers begin and end with the respective owners of the two franchises involved.

Anyone who cannot see the importance of that misses the foundation of what wins and loses in the NFL over the long-term.

Your post makes it sound as if it was such an easy and obvious thing to simply hire Belichick in January 2000 and voila, all is set.

Regarding "how many titles did the mall and stadium win for the Patriots, or is this construction a reflection of the success and marketability of the team on the field due to the head coach and GM? ",

your post mistakenly puts the team's BB success as having resulted in the stadium getting built. WRONG. CMGI Field broke ground on March 24, 2000 - 5 months before BB's first glorious year with the Patriots when they went 5-11.

Facts count.



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[MassPats38]

1) Who went out and got Belichick when he was not such a hot commodity?

2) Why did Belichick quit as HC of the NYJ?

Both answers begin and end with the respective owners of the two franchises involved.

Anyone who cannot see the importance of that misses the foundation of what wins and loses in the NFL over the long-term.

Your post makes it sound as if it was such an easy and obvious thing to simply hire Belichick in January 2000 and voila, all is set.

Regarding "how many titles did the mall and stadium win for the Patriots, or is this construction a reflection of the success and marketability of the team on the field due to the head coach and GM? ",

your post mistakenly puts the team's BB success as having resulted in the stadium getting built. WRONG. CMGI Field broke ground on March 24, 2000 - 5 months before BB's first glorious year with the Patriots when they went 5-11.

Facts count.



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Why don't you read the rest of my posts in this thread before you go postal on me. You pick one of my posts, quote part of it and then appear to want to pick a fight with me. I was not attacking Kraft with this successive post that apparently unhinged you inexplicably and necessitated your reply, so feel free to read the thread before you endeavor to educate me on something I myself stated. Noting that Gillette wasn't crapped out in a few months after the Super Bowl is not particularly enlightening. I have attended games at both stadiums, so, yeah, I know that.

I am well aware the stadium was in the works. Did I say otherwise? No. Call me out on the facts, but I expect you can read your own post and employ basic English to discern "mall and stadium" is not just the stadium. As you said, facts count and the mall, which you brought into this conversation, is not the stadium. So to answer your snark. WRONG. Hall at Patriot Place opened 2008. Patriot Place? First phase 2007. Mentioned in your reply? Yup. Was that 2000? Nope. Did you say Patriot Place and not just Gillette? Sure did, chief. Want to go another round with your 'facts' snark after that? I wouldn't advise it until you grasp the facts you yourself offered in your post.

I am not a Kraft hater, and have said so repeatedly. Don't move the chains in the argument in order to feel insightful. The most inane arguments here are the ones cherry-picking parts of posts and ignoring the context of the quotes. I replied to what you replied, and you either lack reading comprehension skills or choose to create an argument that simply isn't there by contorting/misreading the post in order to transform it into something that serves your ire. If it makes you feel like you're 'winning' an argument, then whatever floats your boat. You can have it, because I'm not playing that game.

 

[luuked]

1) Who went out and got Belichick when he was not such a hot commodity?

2) Why did Belichick quit as HC of the NYJ?

This is most probably gonna be my final post in this thread but I just want to point out that nobody disputes that he deserves credit for hiring BB. There really is no point in keeping to bring this up because it really is undisputed and doesnt add anything to the conversation.

 

[luuked]

So you are a better reference source on the subject than Tom Brady. That is remarkable on several levels.

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I am saying this is my personal opinion. Brady likes avocado ice cream. I dont like it. Nothing will change my mind about that.

 

[DarrylS]

Will never read a Borges article as if I click on it will be giving him some cred.. he has none, he is lower that whale crap. For those who do a little girl's new puppy dies every time you click on anything Borges..

Despite the negativity about Kraft as a fan am lucky to have him as an owner, those of us who followed the team from the early days are forever grateful.. he backed away from battles he thought he might lose and may cause detriment to the Patriots.. none of us are privy to the inner workings of the NFL owners..

He is definitely HOF material, he allowed this franchise to exist and get very good for a long time now.. somehow "Jerruh"is being sanctified in this thread, while he praised Goodell when Brady was raked over the coals.. Owners are what they are, billionaire businessmen who might be fans, but care mostly about he bottom line.

 

[shmessy]

Why don't you read the rest of my posts in this thread before you go postal on me. You pick one of my posts, quote part of it and then appear to want to pick a fight with me. I was not attacking Kraft with this successive post that apparently unhinged you inexplicably and necessitated your reply, so feel free to read the thread before you endeavor to educate me on something I myself stated. Noting that Gillette wasn't crapped out in a few months after the Super Bowl is not particularly enlightening. I have attended games at both stadiums, so, yeah, I know that.

I am well aware the stadium was in the works. Did I say otherwise? No. Call me out on the facts, but I expect you can read your own post and employ basic English to discern "mall and stadium" is not just the stadium. As you said, facts count and the mall, which you brought into this conversation, is not the stadium. So to answer your snark. WRONG. Hall at Patriot Place opened 2008. Patriot Place? First phase 2007. Mentioned in your reply? Yup. Was that 2000? Nope. Did you say Patriot Place and not just Gillette? Sure did, chief. Want to go another round with your 'facts' snark after that? I wouldn't advise it until you grasp the facts you yourself offered in your post.

I am not a Kraft hater, and have said so repeatedly. Don't move the chains in the argument in order to feel insightful. The most inane arguments here are the ones cherry-picking parts of posts and ignoring the context of the quotes. I replied to what you replied, and you either lack reading comprehension skills or choose to create an argument that simply isn't there by contorting/misreading the post in order to transform it into something that serves your ire. If it makes you feel like you're 'winning' an argument, then whatever floats your boat. You can have it, because I'm not playing that game.

Wow.

That's quite the late night emotional explosion from you right there. Not sure what necessitated the vitriol as reading my post again, it is clear that it was not any statement about you but a reasoned argument about your post.

My entire post was about "facts count" - there was no personal attack. "Going postal"? Anyone reading the two posts can clearly see only one of them is "postal". Sorry if it hit such a hidden nerve with you, though.

I hope you are feeling better this morning and are taking it easy.




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[shmessy]

I am saying this is my personal opinion. Brady likes avocado ice cream. I dont like it. Nothing will change my mind about that.

Perfectly understandable, and I can respect that.

At that same time, it can be noted that the one person most directly affected by the 4 game suspension and the NFL's personal attack on his reputation has absolutely no problem with the way Kraft handled it and considers him one of his closest friends - just as close now as before.

Is Brady that blind to it?

Shouldn't the people who are so upset at Kraft for what they perceive as the selling out of Brady also be upset at Brady for increasing his support of the guy?

It doesn't seem to make sense.

Perhaps its just a cold calculation by Brady that he's better off with the Patriots and BB at this stage and has to make nice with the owner.

We'll know the answer better after he retires.

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[Pape]

Jerry Jones inherited a Super Bowl caliber franchise and when all those good players left they've been total shi.t. It's a joke he's in the HoF as anything.

Kraft on the other hand took a franchise that was the worst in the league and, well, look where we are today.

Jones did not inherit a super bowl caliber team. Whatever you want to say about him, you can't say he fell into a winner. He and Jimmy Johnson - and I don't care which one you think built the team b/c it doesn't matter - built those Super Bowl teams.
---
As for Kraft, he absolutely belongs in the HoF. He will get in when its his turn. Kraft has done too much for this franchise and for the League not to be honored.

 

[Alternator]

I, too, can't stand the cave-ins for "the good of the league" , and abhor his choice of mentally unstable political pals. But real life isn't a comic book. People are complex. The last purported perfect human died over 2,000 years ago (unless you are North Korean).

The last perfect human died on February 27, 2003.

 

[Bruins29]

The last perfect human died on February 27, 2003.

Even he said no human is perfect

 

[Jlaff]

If you watch the full video, Kraft is actually taking a $20 out of that woman's hand.