Does Rob Ninkovich make the Pats Hall of Fame?

[Biffins]

I think they should start adding 2 players per year.

 

[Bruins29]

So.....so far we have Dan Connolly, Randy Moss, and Ty Warren deserving to be in before Ninko. Is this a joke?


I have no words......

 

[jmt57]

Assuming the current format continues (one player via fan vote every year, plus one from the veteran's committee every four years; player must be retired for four years), the next few years will look something like this (obviously some of these can be flip flopped, especially not knowing when current players will retire):

2018: Richard Seymour
2019: Rodney Harrison
2019 veteran: Julius Adams
2020: Vince Wilfork
2021: Wes Welker
2022: Adam Vinatieri
2023: Tom Brady
2023 veteran: Russ Francis
2024: Matt Light
2025: Jerod Mayo
2026: Julian Edelman
2027: Mike Vrabel
2027 veteran: Fred Marion/Leon Gray/???
And at some point you can add Bill Belichick.


That's ten years worth of team hall of famers. By that time Ninkovich will be just as forgotten as a more deserving guys like Houston Antwine was for so long, or Julius Adams still is.

Here's a question: who is more deserving: Rob Ninkovich, Dante Scarnecchia, Ernie Adams or Randy Moss?

 

[Jangles]

Jet beams can't melt steel fuel

 

[JPPT1974]

Yeah as really he never went to the Pro Bowl but still did a great job over with the team.

 

[luuked]

Assuming the current format continues (one player via fan vote every year, plus one from the veteran's committee every four years; player must be retired for four years), the next few years will look something like this (obviously some of these can be flip flopped, especially not knowing when current players will retire):

2018: Richard Seymour
2019: Rodney Harrison
2019 veteran: Julius Adams
2020: Vince Wilfork
2021: Wes Welker
2022: Adam Vinatieri
2023: Tom Brady
2023 veteran: Russ Francis
2024: Matt Light
2025: Jerod Mayo
2026: Julian Edelman
2027: Mike Vrabel
2027 veteran: Fred Marion/???
And at some point you can add Bill Belichick.


That's ten years worth of team hall of famers. By that time Ninkovich will be just as forgotten as a more deserving guys like Houston Antwine was for so long, or Julius Adams still is.

Here's a question: who is more deserving: Rob Ninkovich, Dante Scarnecchia, Ernie Adams or Randy Moss?

Moss has been here for what ? Essentially 3 years ? He won't make it. Similarly, after how everything played out I think Welker will get pushed far down the line. Finally, I don't see how Vrabel is much more deserving of the spot than Ninkovich but I guess you have a similar view given how far down Vrabel fell (2027).

 

[jmt57]

The current (retired) 53-man roster of the Patriots Hall of not-yet/never will HoF

QB: Jim Plunkett, Doug Flutie
RB: Curtis Martin, Tony Collins, Don Calhoun, Larry Garron, Mack Herron
TE: Russ Francis, Jim Whalen, Daniel Graham
WR: Wes Welker, Randy Moss, Deion Branch, Jim Colclough, Irving Fryar
OT: Matt Light, Sebastian Vollmer, Brian Holloway, Shelby Jordan
G: Logan Mankins, Leon Gray, Sam Adams, Stephen Neal
C: Bill Lenkaitis, Pete Brock

DE: Julius Adams, R Seymour, Ty Warren, Rob Ninkovich, Larry Eisenhauer
DT: Ray Hamilton, Ted Washington, Mike Wright, Tim Goad
LB: Jerod Mayo, Mike Vrabel, Ted Johnson, Vincent Brown, Lawrence McGrew
S: Rodney Harrison, Fred Marion, Lawyer Milloy, Roland James
CB: Ronnie Lippett, Maurice Hurst, Asante Samuel, Don Webb

K: Adam Vinatieri
P: Rich Camarillo
LS: Lonie Paxton
ST: Mosi Tatupu, Larry Whigham, Larry Izzo

HC: Chuck Fairbanks, Raymond Berry, Mike Holovak
OC: Ron Erhardt, Charlie Weis
DC: Romeo Crennel

 

[BTTA]

Plus, there will be fresh, stellar careers that develop over that ten year period that will put Ninkovich further in the rear view mirror.

Assuming the current format continues (one player via fan vote every year, plus one from the veteran's committee every four years; player must be retired for four years), the next few years will look something like this (obviously some of these can be flip flopped, especially not knowing when current players will retire):

2018: Richard Seymour
2019: Rodney Harrison
2019 veteran: Julius Adams
2020: Vince Wilfork
2021: Wes Welker
2022: Adam Vinatieri
2023: Tom Brady
2023 veteran: Russ Francis
2024: Matt Light
2025: Jerod Mayo
2026: Julian Edelman
2027: Mike Vrabel
2027 veteran: Fred Marion/Leon Gray/???
And at some point you can add Bill Belichick.


That's ten years worth of team hall of famers. By that time Ninkovich will be just as forgotten as a more deserving guys like Houston Antwine was for so long, or Julius Adams still is.

Here's a question: who is more deserving: Rob Ninkovich, Dante Scarnecchia, Ernie Adams or Randy Moss?

 

[Huckleberry1]

That is the question. I doubt anyone thinks if he does make it that it will be quickly but will he get in sooner or later?

Career numbers with the Pats in 8 years.

46 sacks, 12 FF, 24 PD. More than his stats though were the amount of snaps he played which was the most in the league for any front 7 player I think at least 2 years and maybe more. I would need to check on that to be sure. Also one other thing which doesn't show up in his stellar run defense. He was one of the best run blocking DEs in the NFL for a time really knew how to set the edge.

I think in 10 years he will gain serious consideration. There is a bit of a back log of greats but I think he will be seriously discussed at some point in the future and make it.

I doubt his "run blocking" will help him get in.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Really good player, won't get in the PHOF.

 

[DarrylS]

If there was not such a back log of Patriots Greats would say he would make it in 4 or 5 years, but the amount of really great NFL players coming through the "Pats Pipeline" might have to wait a while..

When you look at JM57's rundown a fan realizes how difficult it will be.. none of these guys are on the bubble..

Then there are guys like Julius Adams who did the dirty work for a long time, very well and received no recognition.. not sure I see Vrabel in front of Ninkovich..

Assuming the current format continues (one player via fan vote every year, plus one from the veteran's committee every four years; player must be retired for four years), the next few years will look something like this (obviously some of these can be flip flopped, especially not knowing when current players will retire):

2018: Richard Seymour
2019: Rodney Harrison
2019 veteran: Julius Adams
2020: Vince Wilfork
2021: Wes Welker
2022: Adam Vinatieri
2023: Tom Brady
2023 veteran: Russ Francis
2024: Matt Light
2025: Jerod Mayo
2026: Julian Edelman
2027: Mike Vrabel
2027 veteran: Fred Marion/Leon Gray/???
And at some point you can add Bill Belichick.


That's ten years worth of team hall of famers. By that time Ninkovich will be just as forgotten as a more deserving guys like Houston Antwine was for so long, or Julius Adams still is.

Here's a question: who is more deserving: Rob Ninkovich, Dante Scarnecchia, Ernie Adams or Randy Moss?

 

[Ring 6]

You think Ninkovich's contributions to the Pats to date is in the same ballpark as Blount and White and less than Moss, Malcolm Butler, Nate Solder and Ty Warren.............. come on............. get real.

Yes.
Warren was here about just as long and was a better football player.
Solder has protected Brady's blindside for 6 years.
White and butler are not done yet.
Moss was dominant but short term.
Blount is in the ballpark if push came to shove I'd rank nink higher but not drastically.

I love nink but he was a very average player.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not sure what the precedent is, but imo the short tenured players shouldn't be considered.

I don't think I included many short tenured players other than ones currently playing.
Moss. Who else?

 

[Ring 6]

Was Vrabel really that much better than Ninkovich............. I don't think so.

Here are the stats which are very comparable.
Vrabel 2001-2008, 8 years, 47 sacks, 411 tackles, 14 Forced Fumbles, 5 Fumble Recoveries, 11 interceptions
Ninkovich, 2009-2016, 8 years (7 on defense), 46 sacks, 460 tackles, 10 Forced Fumbles, incredible 14 Fumble Recoveries, 5 interceptions

And I believe the intangibles favor Ninkovich, Ninkovich is more of a team leader in the same mold as Bruschi. Vrabel near the end was whining about his contract, and saying "There's a Place for more pay" when Kraft was building Patriot Place, and hence was shipped off to KC in the Cassell trade when they probably didn't even ask for him. On the other hand we held a special presser for Ninkovich's retirement and got glowing praise from BB.

For me Nink gets in before Vrabel.

Did you purposely count tackles plus assists for nink and only tackles for vrabel or was it a mistake?
If you compared the same thing vrabel has about 50% more than nink.

 

[Ring 6]

No. These players are ahead of him, off the top of my head.
Brady
Edelman
Welker
Moss
Light
Solder
Mankins
Seymour
Warren
Wilfork
Hightower
Vrabel
Harrison
Butler
McCourty
Vinatieri
Ghost
Milloy
BB



Others that are in the same ballpark
Woody
Andruzzi
Volmer
Francis
Gray
Blount
White (projecting)
Chandler jones ( better but not as long)
Veris
Adams
Hamilton
Vincent brown
Slade
Lippet
Fox
James
Chung
McDaniel
Weiss
Dante
Crenell
Patricia


I'm sure I missed others but the list is way too long.

Big gaffe leaving mayo off the list.

On further thought Blount doesn't belong.

 

[Biffins]

Assuming the current format continues (one player via fan vote every year, plus one from the veteran's committee every four years; player must be retired for four years), the next few years will look something like this (obviously some of these can be flip flopped, especially not knowing when current players will retire):

2018: Richard Seymour
2019: Rodney Harrison
2019 veteran: Julius Adams
2020: Vince Wilfork
2021: Wes Welker
2022: Adam Vinatieri
2023: Tom Brady
2023 veteran: Russ Francis
2024: Matt Light
2025: Jerod Mayo
2026: Julian Edelman
2027: Mike Vrabel
2027 veteran: Fred Marion/Leon Gray/???
And at some point you can add Bill Belichick.


That's ten years worth of team hall of famers. By that time Ninkovich will be just as forgotten as a more deserving guys like Houston Antwine was for so long, or Julius Adams still is.

Here's a question: who is more deserving: Rob Ninkovich, Dante Scarnecchia, Ernie Adams or Randy Moss?

Why do Vrabel or Mayo get in before Nink0vich? Or atleast why do you think that's automatic? Also Brady might still be playing by 2023, let alone 4 years retired. Same for Vinatieri.

Also Harrison had only 9 of his 30.5 career sacks with the Pats. He gave us 2 good seasons (2003-2004). Played less than 30 games from 2005-2008 and his most memorable play cost us a Superbowl. Only 300 or so of his 900 career tackles are with the Pats. Not sure he gets in.

I think Ninkovich can get in before Vrabel, Mayo, Harrison.

So it could look like this:

2018: Richard Seymour
2019: Matt Light
2019 veteran: Julius Adams
2020: Vince Wilfork
2021: Logan Mankins
2022: Wes Welker
2023: Rob Ninkovich (Brady, Edelman, Vinatieri not yet eligible)

 

[Biffins]

Did you purposely count tackles plus assists for nink and only tackles for vrabel or was it a mistake?
If you compared the same thing vrabel has about 50% more than nink.

That was a mistake. Thanks for pointing out. I fixed it, Vrabel has 604. Not 50% more than 460 but I get your point.

 

[Ring 6]

Why do Vrabel or Mayo get in before Nink0vich? Or atleast why do you think that's automatic?

They were much better football players.

Also Brady might still be playing by 2023, let alone 4 years retired. Same for Vinatieri.

Also Harrison had only 9 of his 30.5 career sacks with the Pats. He gave us 2 good seasons (2003-2004). Played less than 30 games from 2005-2008 and his most memorable play cost us a Superbowl. Only 300 or so of his 900 career tackles are with the Pats. Not sure he gets in.

Come on. Harrison was a huge difference maker and leader.
I can tell you love nink but he was just an average player.

I think Ninkovich can get in before Vrabel, Mayo, Harrison.

So it could look like this:

2018: Richard Seymour
2019: Matt Light
2019 veteran: Julius Adams
2020: Vince Wilfork
2021: Wes Welker
2022: Rob Ninkovich (Brady, Edelman, Vinatieri not yet eligible)

There are others still more deserving.
I'm not going to trash the guy because he was a fine patriot but no way he is a HOFer.

 

[Ring 6]

That was a mistake. Thanks for pointing out. I fixed it, Vrabel has 604. Not 50% more than 460 but I get your point.

Tackles, without assists. 411 to 279 hence the 50% more comment.

 

[Biffins]

They were much better football players.


Come on. Harrison was a huge difference maker and leader.
I can't tell you love nink but he was just an average player.


There are others still more deserving.
I'm not going to trash the guy because he was a fine patriot but no way he is a HOFer.

You seem to discount all intangibles etc. Noone can seriously say that Faulk is a "better" football player than e.g. Seymour. But he got in before him. Clearly there are intangibles at work here as well and I believe those favor Ninkovich.