Patriots Rumor Butler & Saints working towards finalizing a deal (Thread now UFC Pats Fans Event)

[Plunkett2Vataha]

Pherein should be easy to spot too.

Now that Mardi Gras is over, there can't be too many pigs in NASA gear in New Orleans.

Just curious, and maybe only Saints fans will understand this, but is the "pigs in NASA gear" a reference to Jim Henderson's classic local call when kicker Garrett Hartley nailed the game winning FG against the Vikings (and Favre) to put the Saints in the Super Bowl? If it was, great find. If it wasn't, you can still claim it was, just don't let others know!!

 

[JMC00]

You people can interpret how you like it but it literally says

A Club extending a Required Tender must, for so long as that Tender is extended, have a good faith intention to employ the player receiving the Tender at the Tender compensation level during the upcoming season

EMPLOY. Not trade.

If you really think that means a team can be talking trades about a player who hasn't signed the TENDER they extended then I don't know what to tell you.

And if you think Belichick is gonna sit there and blatantly disregard this rule after all the **** he's dealt with from the league then it shows your ignorance level.

But don't give me the Welker deal. Welker and the Pats had an agreement, the league and the NFLPA knew about it and Kraft decided to throw in a 7th round pick while still giving them the 2nd round pick the lolphins tendered Welker with. Only way the Welker deal and this are the same is if Saints give up the #11 pick as well as throw in a late round pick.

 

[XLIX]

You people can interpret how you like it but it literally says

A Club extending a Required Tender must, for so long as that Tender is extended, have a good faith intention to employ the player receiving the Tender at the Tender compensation level during the upcoming season

EMPLOY. Not trade.

If you really think that means a team can be talking trades about a player who hasn't signed the TENDER they extended then I don't know what to tell you.

And if you think Belichick is gonna sit there and blatantly disregard this rule after all the **** he's dealt with from the league then it shows your ignorance level.

But don't give me the Welker deal. Welker and the Pats had an agreement, the league and the NFLPA knew about it and Kraft decided to throw in a 7th round pick while still giving them the 2nd round pick the lolphins tendered Welker with. Only way the Welker deal and this are the same is if Saints give up the #11 pick as well as throw in a late round pick.

That's funny how you claim a certain interpretation of the CBA and then say "don't give me" the perfect case showing your interpretation is incorrect.

The Patriots are acting in good faith here. That is all anyone is going to care about. If the trade benefits the player, the union sure isn't going to be upset about that.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

It's similar to Welker if Butler has a contract with NO he likes and wants to go there. We don't know that yet but he's been working on it.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

Eli Manning was traded for Phillip Rivers when neither team had them under contract.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Eli Manning was traded for Phillip Rivers when neither team had them under contract.

And, IIRC, from a technical standpoint, once they're drafted, they're automatically extended a tender as a procedural move.

The references to Julius Peppers strike me as a bit of a red herring, because I don't think there was ever a possibility of that happening.

 

[GodBrady]

And if you think Belichick is gonna sit there and blatantly disregard this rule after all the **** he's dealt with from the league then it shows your ignorance level.

The problem I have with your argument is that you come off as incredibly biased. It's like you're saying, "Bill Belichick is a man of incredible honor and dignity. He would never make a handshake agreement that slightly skirted the rules! The only outcome of this situation that I believe is possible is the one that most-positively affects My Favorite Team™. If you're proposing a scenario that involves My Favorite Team™ receiving a lesser pick, then I simply refuse to acknowledge it as a possibility. It's simply incomprehensible!"

Your fervent assertion seems rooted in wishful thinking, not objectivity.

 

[Digit]

But don't give me the Welker deal. Welker and the Pats had an agreement, the league and the NFLPA knew about it and Kraft decided to throw in a 7th round pick while still giving them the 2nd round pick the lolphins tendered Welker with. Only way the Welker deal and this are the same is if Saints give up the #11 pick as well as throw in a late round pick.

I'm not sure the Welker trade comparision can be made here either, although the situation was a bit more different than I recall it.

New England had inserted a poison pill in it to make it hard for Miami to match. Miami protested, and Kraft stepped in and offered a 7th to smooth hard feelings over and allow New England to make a more conventional contract offer that Miami would then not match.

Those poison pill contracts were banned afterwards, so the Welker situation is likely to be the last of its kind.

 

[Huckleberry1]

The problem I have with your argument is that you come off as incredibly biased. It's like you're saying, "Bill Belichick is a man of incredible honor and dignity. He would never make a handshake agreement that slightly skirted the rules! The only outcome of this situation that I believe is possible is the one that most-positively affects My Favorite Team™. If you're proposing a scenario that involves My Favorite Team™ receiving a lesser pick, then I simply refuse to acknowledge it as a possibility. It's simply incomprehensible!"

Your fervent assertion seems rooted in wishful thinking, not objectivity.

After everything the Patriots have been through there is no way Belichick is playing games with the rules around free agency. He knows the fine print backwards and forwards and he isn't going to take chances that would lead to more sanctions. What is going on with Butler is straightforward, the Saints showed interest and his agent brought him down their to discuss money with them. If they come to agreement the Saints can either give up their #11 or try to cut a deal with New England, if that doesn't work out he can sign his tender and play out his contract. Imo people are making this much more complicated than it needs to be.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

What is going on with Butler is straightforward, the Saints showed interest and his agent brought him down their to discuss money with them. If they come to agreement the Saints can either give up their #11 or try to cut a deal with New England, if that doesn't work out he can sign his tender and play out his contract. Imo people are making this much more complicated than it needs to be.

Well, according to JMC00, what you just said is illegal.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Well, according to JMC00, what you just said is illegal.

You guys can argue about that all you want, I have no interest in it at all.

 

[Soliel]

My heads gonna explode

 

[AzPatsFan]

Oh I completely agree but you need more than 2 edge guys, we usually have at least 4 and I dont know if you can rely on 3 round or later picks.

Flowers was a 4th round pick. Ninko is still around too as number 1 reserve. Don't discount Hightower, he is a good sack producer.

 

[Ring 6]

You might be right. If this isn't about RFAs, then we still don't have the actual rule that forbids coaches from discussing potential trades of RFAs. I still haven't found it. Have you?

I haven't looked. Common sense and bill belichick and mike Lombardi both staying it's a rule is enough for me.

 

[JMC00]

After everything the Patriots have been through there is no way Belichick is playing games with the rules around free agency. He knows the fine print backwards and forwards and he isn't going to take chances that would lead to more sanctions. What is going on with Butler is straightforward, the Saints showed interest and his agent brought him down their to discuss money with them. If they come to agreement the Saints can either give up their #11 or try to cut a deal with New England, if that doesn't work out he can sign his tender and play out his contract. Imo people are making this much more complicated than it needs to be.

I also find it funny that people are so adamant Butler was involved in the Cooks trade talks because one person reported that. Absolutely no way was Belichick offering up a player in a trade that was set to become a RFA.

 

[Ring 6]

Article XIV, Section 8(b) of the Collective Bargaining Agreement states that

“[a] Club extending a Required Tender must, for so long as that Tender is extended, have a good faith intention to employ the player receiving the Tender at the Tender compensation level during the upcoming season.”

---
In other words, according to the understanding of Bill Belichick, a team can’t apply the franchise tender to a player for purposes other than using that player on their team in the upcoming season, such as to facilitate a trade, to spark a later contract renegotiation, etc.

A team trying to trade the player contingent on a Tender being signed could provide the foundation for an argument that the team doesn’t have a good-faith intention to employ the player receiving the Tender.

Once the tender is signed (and thus no longer “extended”), the “good faith intention” requirement evaporates, and the player can be traded.

discussed in this archived Florio article:

BELICHICK: PATS HAVEN'T TALKED TO PANTHERS ABOUT PEPPERS

This is extending the assumptions too far.
According to belichick you cannot discuss trading ANY PLAYER not under contract. This is not limited to RFAs. He is not talking about the good faith part of the RFA rules he is taking about every player that is not under contract to you.

 

[Ring 6]

Here's the thing about "the rules" discussion. Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of these so called rules come into play UNLESS there is a triggering complaint from either the Pats for tampering (after he signs his tender) , or Bulter (before signing his tender) feeling his RFA status is being jeopardized or manipulated.

It's like, while deflating footballs is supposedly against the rules, the "NFL" can't do anything about it unless a team files a complaint. (see Steeler/Giants deflategate II) The same here, unless Butler files a complaint, there is nothing to see here and renders the better part of 900+ posts on"RFA rules" moot.

I do not believe that is correct. The league can investigate and punish the patriots for a violation.

 

[XLIX]

I also find it funny that people are so adamant Butler was involved in the Cooks trade talks because one person reported that. Absolutely no way was Belichick offering up a player in a trade that was set to become a RFA.

It's funny you say that because others have said there's no way Belichick is giving up a 1st rounder for another player, so it has to be a de facto Butler-for-Cooks trade.

I have no opinion on the matter but I am honestly wondering: Has he ever done that before? I mean traded his 1st round draft pick for an active player on another team. Yes, he has certainly traded a first rounder for other picks (either moving up or down).

 

[patfanken]

You people can interpret how you like it but it literally says

A Club extending a Required Tender must, for so long as that Tender is extended, have a good faith intention to employ the player receiving the Tender at the Tender compensation level during the upcoming season

EMPLOY. Not trade.

If you really think that means a team can be talking trades about a player who hasn't signed the TENDER they extended then I don't know what to tell you.

And if you think Belichick is gonna sit there and blatantly disregard this rule after all the **** he's dealt with from the league then it shows your ignorance level.

But don't give me the Welker deal. Welker and the Pats had an agreement, the league and the NFLPA knew about it and Kraft decided to throw in a 7th round pick while still giving them the 2nd round pick the lolphins tendered Welker with. Only way the Welker deal and this are the same is if Saints give up the #11 pick as well as throw in a late round pick.

That would be appropriate IF the Pats traded him somewhere where he'd earn less that the $4MM he'd get if came back. Clearly that is not the case here. IF the Pats were to trade him, he'd likely earn 2 to 3 TIMES that with his new team.

Again, I believe if at the end of the process, no one files a complaint to the league, then all the talk so many have spent so much time arguing about, becomes totally moot. If there are no complaints, then no rules are broken. There was no spygate UNTIL the Jets filed a complaint. There was no Deflategate until the Colts filed the complaint. And there will be no problems with this transaction UNLESS someone files a complaint.

 

[XLIX]

I do not believe that is correct. The league can investigate and punish the patriots for a violation.

And that's why all official comments on the matter are going to be "we aren't discussing any trades for so-and-so."

But it is foolhardy to think Butler's name never came up in an unofficial capacity between Payton and Belichick.