Are Patriots Giving Butler away for a 2nd Round Pick?

[AzPatsFan]

Best case scenario:
- After having shopped himself around, Butler comes back with informal offers in hand that demonstrate his market value and agrees to a similar contract extension with the Pats.

Unlikely scenario:
- A team submits a formal offer sheet that exceeds what the Pats are willing to pay and they give up their 2017 1st rounder.

Second best scenario:
- The informal contract offers that Butler comes back with exceed what the Pats are willing to pay, so they enter into an agreement with another team to trade Butler to them for something less than their 2017 1st round pick.

Worst case scenario:
- The Pats play hardball and insist on following the formal offer-sheet/1st round pick process. If no team agrees to that, the Pats would effectively be attempting to force Butler to:
1) agree to their terms, acceptable to him or not
2) play 2017 for $3.91M (and hope he doesn't get hurt)
3) sit out until Wk-10 (or go through all of this all over again in 2018)

The week 10 rule is no longer there. The player must report to training camp and even some period prior to it to avoid daily fines. The latest CBA corrected that loophole for the player.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Gilmore did not cost the pats any picks

just sayin'

or was this all about taking the best corner off the FA market to create a bigger market for butler, therefore getting a higher pick for him
I mean if Ryan was worth 10M........

Technically, by signing Gilmore it off sets the loss of Ryan in FA. So technically it probably costs the Pat's a late 3rd round comp pick in 2018.

 

[IllegalContact]

Technically, by signing Gilmore it off sets the loss of Ryan in FA. So technically it probably costs the Pat's a late 3rd round comp pick in 2018.

but it doesn't offset Bennett, Sheard......

anyway, point stands

 

[jboston19]

Another point to consider, and if anyone mentioned it earlier and I missed it I apologise, is that if we keep Butler, it's possible Rowe's snaps stay below 40% and we give a fourth instead of a third to Philly. If Butler goes, it just about assures Rowe will have cost a third.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

The week 10 rule is no longer there. The player must report to training camp and even some period prior to it to avoid daily fines. The latest CBA corrected that loophole for the player.

Are you sure you're not confusing what happens to an under contract player that holds out with a player that's not under contract? Technically Butler would not be holding out because he wouldn't be under contract. Also, I don't see how a team can fine him if he's not a legal employee of the team (which, without a contract, he would not be.)

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

I think its dumb to trade Butler.. Stupid. This secondary would be legit with him here.

What are you talking about? Do you think you know better than Belichick? Armchair GM, how dare you suggesting keeping Butler and paying him what he's worth?!?!? TWO elite CBs on the same team, and both paid at market or near-market value? NEVER!!!

 

[XLIX]

The week 10 rule is no longer there. The player must report to training camp and even some period prior to it to avoid daily fines. The latest CBA corrected that loophole for the player.

You can't fine a player not under contract.

Now it's worth noting that if Butler doesn't sign the tender and holds out (even though it's not technically a "hold out") then he still loses a lot of money when NE reduces the offer to 110% of his 2016 salary. So we can call that a fine if we'd like I suppose....

 

[borisman]

Also, Ray Lewis killed a guy.

 

[deroc5050]

Butler is gone unless he wants a Chris Harris deal - and play a similar role to Harris - along the lines of $8-9M, which he doesn't. He wants to be paid like a bonafide elite cornerback. The Patriots signed Gilmore to be their guy, and Butler's role would be different based on the team's needs. Clearly BB thinks Gilmore is an all-pro player in the works, or he wouldn't have given him that giant contract.

Why pay through the nose when the Patriots field a championship, caliber defense with guys like Kyle Arrington, Brandon Browner, Eric Rowe, and many other cheaper options. They are already paying a ton to Gilmore, McCourty, and a nice sum to Harmon. They have two excellent safeties to cover for shortcomings at their #2 cornerback position.

There are a lot of other needs at all times. Offensive line depth and linebackers to name a few. I don't think it would be wise to give another megadeal to Butler. Pats are now spending as much as Seattle in their secondary. If they gave Butler the deal he wants, we are looking at about 25% of their cap on one area, the secondary. The Seahawks understand the idea of overkill as well. They are also usingg cheap options at CB2 realizing the scheme and surrounding talent can overcome mediocre talent at that position. They've had the best secondary in the league for years now. At some point, there becomes diminished return.

I ageee with you about what Butler should do, but by all indications, he wants tomcah in on a long-term deal now.

Contracts aside having 2 top tier CB's would be a really great thing to have on a team. Apparently BB and Peyton have already worked out a deal with the Cooks trade. So its moot. Reports say Butler is gone but I would have loved to see this secondary with 2 great CB's... however with a 1st round pick this is probably the better move for the long term. But having to shut down CB's this season would have been devastating.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

Someone give me

Contracts aside having 2 top tier CB's would be a really great thing to have on a team. Apparently BB and Peyton have already worked out a deal with the Cooks trade. So its moot. Reports say Butler is gone but I would have loved to see this secondary with 2 great CB's... however with a 1st round pick this is probably the better move for the long term. But having to shut down CB's this season would have been devastating.

It would have been but bill had no choice if this was a wink wink trade for cooks. Personally i am defensive guy. Brady has done less with lesser wrs.

 

[Bruins29]

What are you talking about? Do you think you know better than Belichick? Armchair GM, how dare you suggesting keeping Butler and paying him what he's worth?!?!? TWO elite CBs on the same team, and both paid at market or near-market value? NEVER!!!

Ironically you seem to think you know more than BB

 

[ausbacker]

The Patriots do not "hold all the cards". Specifically, they don't hold any cards on what other teams are willing to pay. NE can scream to the wind all it wants that a team has to give up its original 1st for Butler, but none of that screaming can force any other team to do anything. If no one will pay NE's price NE has two choices: keep the player, or -- if NE does in fact want picks for the player -- negotiate with another team.

As for Butler, he has done nothing wrong whatsoever by not signing the tender. First, why the hell on earth should he sign the tender even a second before the deadline (21 April) for other teams to make offers?? Second, the team can do nothing to him as long as he signs it before 15 June (after 15 June the team can unilaterally reduce the tender amount from $3.9mil to 110% of previous salary). Finally, he's given no reason to expect that he'll hold out. In fact, his camp has already leaked that if worse comes to worse he'll sign the tender and play out the season.

You've basically made my argument for me and described why New England holds all the cards. Butler has no leverage, New England has it all.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

You've basically made my argument for me and described why New England holds all the cards. Butler has no leverage, New England has it all.

They don't have leverage if they agreed to a trade a week ago.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

They don't have leverage if they agreed to a trade a week ago.

This was a wink wink deal from the start. It's like bill can't go back on his word. Still didn't like giving up selection 103 in a draft.

 

[Jangles]

Also, Ray Lewis killed a guy.

This is one of the bigger details that is getting overlooked

 

[ausbacker]

They don't have leverage if they agreed to a trade a week ago.

There's not one piece of information that supports they have or did. It's all speculation, mostly on behalf of commentators.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

You've basically made my argument for me and described why New England holds all the cards. Butler has no leverage, New England has it all.

You're again mistakenly framing it as Butler vs. NE. Yes, in that confrontation NE does have all the cards. But that confrontation doesn't have much bearing on NE vs. NO.

If Belichick wants draft choices for Butler more than Payton wants Butler, then Payton has the leverage. The fact that NE has control of Butler doesn't change that.

 

[ausbacker]

You're again mistakenly framing it as Butler vs. NE. Yes, in that confrontation NE does have all the cards. But that confrontation doesn't have much bearing on NE vs. NO.

If Belichick wants draft choices for Butler more than Payton wants Butler, then Payton has the leverage. The fact that NE has control of Butler doesn't change that.

No, I'm looking at it from the position of which outcome has the least negative impact for each side.

NO can be ruled out as they have nothing right now, Butler ain't in a strong position as he's a RFA (unsigned I might add) who'll either be on the sidelines, be a Patriot or be traded where New England can replace (and has with Gilmore) him if he's on the sidelines, is traded or he returns and they get a year of his services at an attractive price or extend him.

New England controls the board here Quantum. Whether they're going about it the right way is an all together different discussion.

 

[deroc5050]

What if Butler is just trying to use the Saints as leverage and get some more money from the Patriots? Lets say the Patriots offered Butler 7m a year for 3-4 years and he turned it down and maybe the Saints offer 8-9m a year there is nothing stopping the Patriots matching the offer. The media sometimes starts to assume things before they happen. And until this deal goes down I am going to be optimistically hoping Butler is coming back for another year and maybe even signs an extension.

 

[RayClay]

Except the Patriots hold all the cards and don't have to trade Butler. In fact, Butler is the only one who truly loses out by not signing his RFA tender, holding out etc. Why his agent can't see this is beyond my understanding.

You are correct. However, it isn't a slave market. If Butler isn't happy and doesn't have complete focus, he could hurt the team. See Collins and many other examples. Team chemistry is important over all else.