Butler & Saints working towards finalizing a deal (Thread now UFC Pats Fans Event)

[Ivan]

So now the guy's overrated? He gives up plays but he's a solid corner.

Agree, but he's actually a really good Corner, he's just not going to match up well with the big receivers.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

I agree with you 100%.

There's an easy benchmark: Cooks. Cooks was worth #31 (and a swap of later round picks, so in essence, he was worth a mid-late first round pick.) Cooks is a better player than Butler - that is, he would receive more money if both were on the open market...there isn't much question on that. In addition, Cooks has one cheap year left on his deal and one team option that isn't outrageous to exercise.

So Cooks is the better player and offers financial advantages. Butler does not offer financial advantages, since they need to sign him to a big deal immediately to get him.

Given that information, there is no way Butler is worth a first round pick, since Cooks was worth a first round pick. Second round (pick 43) is questionable, as it isn't that far away from the first round.

Give me a good defensive player over an offensive one. Brady has done this already. It seem's like bill just wants to make his life a little easier with a game changer on offense.

 

[Keyser Söze]

If we had to pay either Gilmore or Butler I think BB made the right choice. Gilmore is a better CB

 

[ViperGTS]

Getting the #32 back for a system CB who will be irrelevant in New Orleans and who we replaced with a better and younger player in Stephon Gilmore.

Belichick still dominating the offseason.

Agreed. He is a system DB. So was Samuel. How did he work out in Philly? He will be a good solid corner in NO, not elite. People give not near enough credit for the culture and coaching in NE impacting players' success.

 

[ZoisKing]

Would rather just keep Butler. Not going to worry about it though. Would have liked better compensation on both Collins and Jones. That didn't happen either, and it worked out anyway.

If the report is true, then its sad, because I really liked him, his story, and his production. I would rate him as a better corner than Gilmore, but we'll see how that plays out.

 

[patfanken]

1. Until Butler actually signs his tender this is nothing but speculative fluff. He CANNOT be traded until it is.

2. The "momentum" stuff has to be taken with a grain of salt since the "source" is likely to be an agent, who has every reason to push the momentum hype.

3. IF this has any validity, the terms of Butler's contract will be of great interest, given the Saints cap situation and what the Pats have previously offered.

4. The Saints are not going to give up the 11th pick, AND pay a market deal, so a trade is the ONLY way Butler can be moved.

5. Ultimately it could be Butler and his agent became more aggrevation than he was worth, so like in the Bennett situation BB replaced him (Allen) and moved on to Gilmore, trusting he could replace Ryan's loss either through a FA or Jones. I would NOT be surprised to see the deal the Saints give him to be a lot lower than Gilmore's $13MM/.

6. Again if he goes, it will be a shame. If all things are equal I would always keep the CB over the WR, but at least the WR lovers will be happy.

 

[BradyFTW!]

BB is not stupid but he is oftentimes impetuous and dumps people for less than
their actual value: see Easley, Collins, and Chandler Jones. He might dump Butler
to his buddy Payton for 10 cents on the dollar. Minimum value should be the Patriots
get the picks back that they traded for Cooks or the 32nd pick back plus a #2 next year.

Belichick got equal value for (a half-season of) Collins and (one year of) Jones. Because of the Jones trade, we now have Thuney and Mitchell for the next 3 years for cheap, while AZ is paying Jones $17M per year. That's a good trade.

The Pats were never going to give Jones the contract he got. So because they made that trade last year, they now have two solid assets under cost control through 2019, as opposed to the nothing they would've had if Jones had walked. Not even a comp pick, given how this offseason is going.

The only way to argue against this trade is to claim that it hurt them badly in 2016, which is har to argue considering that we went 17-2 and won the Super Bowl.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

Agree, but he's actually a really good Corner, he's just not going to match up well with the big receivers.

He held his own against marshall at times. Go look at a guy like chris harris from denver. He can hang with big wrs

 

[FourierSeries]

So now the guy's overrated? He gives up plays but he's a solid corner.

He was rated appropriately while playing under Belichick - the greatest coach of all time who took a nobody in Wes Welker and made him a great slot receiver, a QB in Julian Edelman and made him into a very good WR, a very limited Kyle Arrington who he got a lot out of during the 2014 SB run. We can go back even further to find more examples.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

If this is true, it's very disappointing that this is the only return, when they were entitled to more.

NE isn't entitled to anything.

When you buy a car do you pay sticker price because that's the number the dealership put on the car and thus they are "entitled" to it? After all, the dealership has total control over the car.

This is the same thing.

 

[FourierSeries]

Agreed. He is a system DB. So was Samuel. How did he work out in Philly? He will be a good solid corner in NO, not elite. People give not near enough credit for the culture and coaching in NE impacting players' success.

Stephon Gilmore will be a much better CB than him next season. Without a doubt.

 

[BelichickFan]

These reactions crack me up. We all know the deal was worked out in the Cooks talk and the #32 pick was a placeholder as Butler couldn't be traded at the time. Assuming that is the "new" trade, it's just the completion of the Cooks trade. Talk about "holding out for more" is silly as it was already agreed to a week ago and we aren't reneging on the accepted deal. It's really that simple, it's not whether Butler is worth 1.32, it's a matter of whether (2 cheap years of) Cooks and a #4 is worth (1 cheap year of) Butler and a #3.

 

[Ivan]

Give me a good defensive player over an offensive one. Brady has done this already. It seem's like bill just wants to make his life a little easier with a game changer on offense.

Agree, if they get the #32 back I want them to go after an edge rusher or a CB. The CB class is so strong that they could very well get a Corner that could be as good as Butler in a year or two.

 

[Bruins29]

6. Again if he goes, it will be a shame, but at least the WR lovers will be happy.

Love MB but the WR crew needs help and its not easy to get a player the calibre of Cooks who apparently has the intangibles as well as stats/talent at the price we did from a team with no incentive to give us bogus info on him.

Everyone should be happy about that. It improves the O tremendously.

 

[Ivan]

He held his own against marshall at times. Go look at a guy like chris harris from denver. He can hang with big wrs

I like Butler, I'm not knocking him on the way out at all, but he still does not match up well against the big WRs.

 

[Edelmania]

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

The idiots are now saying he's a system CB lol. If it wasn't for butler our secondary would be in shambles. Pay respect to the guy here and what he did for us. Geez

 

[Ivan]

Love MB but the WR crew needs help and its not easy to get a player the calibre of Cooks who apparently has the intangibles as well as stats/talent at the price we did from a team with no incentive to give us bogus info on him.

Everyone should be happy about that. It improves the O tremendously.

Cooks is exceptional imo, I won't be surprised if he ends up being an All Pro this season.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

I like Butler, I'm not knocking him on the way out at all, but he still does not match up well against the big WRs.

He was far from perfect but he was good and held our secondary. I will always be grateful for what he did for us here. Class act. Hope he fires his agent!

 

[FourierSeries]

The idiots are now saying he's a system CB lol. If it wasn't for butler our secondary would be in shambles. Pay respect to the guy here and what he did for us. Geez

People overrate him [Butler] on this board.

Official Game Day Thread- Week 12...... Pats @ Jets