Butler case

[Huckleberry1]

I disagree on Butler completely. The Patriots will deal him if the return is off the charts, they wouldn't give him up for Cooks, who is off the charts good, so he won't come cheap, but that doesn't mean they can't afford he and Gilmore.

What the Patriots could very well be looking at is a "reverse Welker" situation. The Patriots offered Welker a 2 year 16 million dollar deal, Welker rejected it and chose the Franchise tag at 10 million, seriously pissing Belichick off but leaving him little choice but to swallow it. The next season Welker went free agent hoping the Patriots would re-sign him, however Belichick didn't forget and would go no higher than 6 million for him, which was exactly what he would have made under their 2 year 16 million offer. Now go to Butler, the Patriots don't want to give him 14+ a year as RFA, and at this point he really has no choice other than to play his @ss off for his UFA year, however the Patriots can still franchise him at around 16-17 million for one year, which means he makes 10-11 a season over these two seasons, a total of 20-22 for two seasons. So while they may still move Butler they in no way have to, at least imo.

 

[K. Dog]

I assume that the Patriots are not allowed to speak directly to Butler, correct, but must speak only to his agent, Our Attorneys - Warren & Simpson, PC , about contractual issues?

Hopefully all will end will for all sides. At the same time, if the rumors are correct, then this situation could turn tragic. It felt like Butler had overcome all the obstacles that had been placed in front of him since he was in high school.

 

[Kontradiction]

I really hope they work out something long term. If not, and he's only back for a year, I'd honestly like to see Rowe and Gilmore on the outside with Butler in the slot. That would be the most effective combo to put on the field. One of the Jones brothers can come in as the dime corner if needed.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Hmmmm.... interesting perspective here

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

This has been mentioned a few times, but one solution (proposed by @Miguel) is to simply split the difference between Gilmore's and Logan Ryan's contract as a sort of middle ground between a ceiling and floor

 

[long distance]

And Reiss' take along those # from today's quick-hits along this line. Somewhat naively taking agents tweet for granted but still a good read on the topic..


Cornerback Malcolm Butler and the Patriots have a difference of opinion on his value when it comes to a potential contract extension. It isn't the first time a player and team have seen things differently, and it won't be the last. That's business. But the point that Butler's agent Derek Simpson was making last week when he said the Patriots haven't talked to Butler about a contract extension since last year was that it's unfair for anyone to paint Butler as someone who keeps asking for more money when there haven't been talks. What Butler has done is kept his mouth shut, busted his butt, played at a high level and put the team first while vastly outperforming a contract that paid him $510,000 in 2015 and $600,000 in 2016. Those are the types of players to reward and in that sense it would be a major disappointment if the team trades without exhausting every possibility to retain him.

3b. More compelling to me with the Butler-Patriots situation is if the team truly views him as a bonafide No. 1 corner. The Patriots obviously see the taller, longer Gilmore (6-1, 190) that way based on the generous contract they gave him, but my sense is they view Butler a cut below -- somewhere between Logan Ryan (reported average of $10 million per season in Tennessee) and Gilmore ($13 million per season). So if both sides are committed to remaining in New England, and focus on striking a compromise, that's the sweet spot to hit. Butler is scheduled to earn $3.91 million this season as a restricted free agent. Add on three years and $34.5 million to the end of the 2017 year ($11.5 million per season on extension), with some of that money paid out in an up-front signing bonus to give Butler more immediate security, and maybe that gets it done. Then you have Gilmore and Butler paired together for at least the next four seasons, which is more appealing than, say, dealing Butler to the Saints in exchange for a first-round pick (No. 32 overall).

 

[Uptown]

I love Butler. However, Gilmore IS a better overall CB (even if it's not by a significant margin). Gilmore's just the better player. That being said, I believe the BB & Caserio view his current situation in the same light. They may believe Butler falls somewhere between Gilmore & Ryan (contract-wise), which may be where the discord lies.

 

[zipster9]

Let him play out his contract, see what happens next year.

If Butler does not sign, which forces Patriots hand, I would blame his agent for giving him dumb advice....

 

[n1997y]

I love Butler. However, Gilmore IS a better overall CB (even if it's not by a significant margin). Gilmore's just the better player. That being said, I believe the BB & Caserio view his current situation in the same light. They may believe Butler falls somewhere between Gilmore & Ryan (contract-wise), which may be where the discord lies.

One point on which Butler may be far superior to Gilmore is attitude. We have yet to see how Gilmore responds to the Patriots' locker room culture, or affects it. Between him and Cooks there are a couple of new additions that concern me because of their past. It worries me that Gilmore has been inconsistent and Cooks has been crying about not getting more targets. I'm just hoping we don't see BB forced to make a high profile mid-season move to fix the locker room attitudes. With Butler there has been absolutely zero evidence to suggest such a thing in any of his past.

 

[RobertWeathers]

If Butler does not sign, which forces Patriots hand, I would blame his agent for giving him dumb advice....

How does not signing the tender force the Patriots hand?

 

[RobertWeathers]

One point on which Butler may be far superior to Gilmore is attitude. We have yet to see how Gilmore responds to the Patriots' locker room culture, or affects it. Between him and Cooks there are a couple of new additions that concern me because of their past. It worries me that Gilmore has been inconsistent and Cooks has been crying about not getting more targets. I'm just hoping we don't see BB forced to make a high profile mid-season move to fix the locker room attitudes. With Butler there has been absolutely zero evidence to suggest such a thing in any of his past.

Your point is reasonable but something tells me BB wouldn't have dropped THAT money and THOSE picks on players which he did not have a strong sense of how they would fit in the locker room.

 

[n1997y]

Your point is reasonable but something tells me BB wouldn't have dropped THAT money and THOSE picks on players which he did not have a strong sense of how they would fit in the locker room.

I'd like to agree. But I would expect that every time, and there have been years when the locker room chemistry was not as healthy as would be preferred, and acquisitions haven't been as positive influences as we'd like. Adelious Thomas comes to mind as one example, and there were others as well. I'm hoping you're correct, but waiting to see. One thing I'm sure of is that Malcolm Butler has never given me reason for concern on such grounds.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'd like to agree. But I would expect that every time, and there have been years when the locker room chemistry was not as healthy as would be preferred, and acquisitions haven't been as positive influences as we'd like. Adelious Thomas comes to mind as one example, and there were others as well. I'm hoping you're correct, but waiting to see. One thing I'm sure of is that Malcolm Butler has never given me reason for concern on such grounds.

I think Bill has learned a few things since then and I think the locker room is much stronger now than it was in 2009.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

You agree @Miguel?

 

[PatsBoy12]

This has been mentioned a few times, but one solution (proposed by @Miguel) is to simply split the difference between Gilmore's and Logan Ryan's contract as a sort of middle ground between a ceiling and floor

I hear you, bud. However, that is not what MB is looking for or feels he deserves. That's what would work best for the team. MB, his agent, or both of them feel he's earned and deserves more.

I wonder if there is anything at the rookie symposiums about choosing management and/or agents wisely and carefully. I'm not in the inside and would never proclaim to know everything, but I wonder if the situation would have still played out this way had there been another agent involved.

 

[AtomicDawg]

I wonder if there is anything at the rookie symposiums about choosing management and/or agents wisely and carefully

Not sure, but lots of seminars on "How To Choose a Fall Guy"

 

[K. Dog]

The more I read about this, the more hopeless I am about it. I think this will very likely end up with a bad situation for Butler, a bad situation for the Patriots - not even a lot of money for Butler's agent.

And the missed opportunities is what's most frustrating. We could have had a great secondary; a great paradigm in the locker room; Butler would have been set for life financially, as would his family; even the movie would have had a nice arc to it: it would be uplifting not tragic.

To be honest this is reminding me of deflategate in which elementary mistakes and fear of embarrassment in admitting them lead to terrible results. But what's scorched here is Butler's future, the Patriots secondary, and an epic story about overcoming the past. Now it's a story like so many others about a good man unable to escape that same past.