Unless the Patriots have other assets to trade, the Cooks deal has sealed Garoppolo's fate

[goheels22002]

Jimmy and Malcolm are gone.

They should rent the Mayflower van together.

Are you saying Malcolm Mitchell will get traded? I doubt that. Mitchell, Cooks, Hogan, Edelman, and Garoppolo is a scary WR crew with Gronk, Lewis and White.

Maybe I am thinking of the wrong Malcolm. Butler, Brown, X?!?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Are you saying Malcolm Mitchell will get traded? I doubt that. Mitchell, Cooks, Hogan, Edelman, and Garoppolo is a scary WR crew with Gronk, Lewis and White.

Maybe I am thinking of the wrong Malcolm. Butler, Brown, X?!?

Butler will be traded.

 

[Gumby]

Nope.

You are making the classic mistake. You are treating the draft as its own thing. . . .

Right now draft picks are a bit overinflated in value, the draft is an overhyped asset for a man who knows how to secure good players in other ways, such as FA reclamations and clever trades. SO he's moving the overpriced commodity for pieces that help the team now and getting good value on each exchange and not getting bogged down in the old-fashioned conventional thinking of Thou Shalt Have A First Round Pick -- exactly what a good investor does when an asset is overvalued..

I'd agree with the preceding EXCEPT that draftniks tell me this is a good, deep draft. IF SO, BB would want to acquire CHEAP long term talent. Portfolio diversification & cap averaging, management.

So, my thought playing off your two's discussion is that if the quality is deep, the 1-2 round players are probably being drafted at their traditional cap hit to talent level ratio (which Simple thinks is too high across the board). But then the 3-4 round guys could be considered at traditional 2d round talent levels, but 3-4 round cap hits. So exceptional value there.

So that could explain BB willingness to trade 1-2s for players (especially ones who if they leave Pats in 1-2 years for greener pastures that turn into comp picks another year later) + 3/4/5 rnd picks.

All about getting value back for your resources: whether cap room or draft capital.

 

[zipster9]

Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports the Browns are looking to trade Brock Osweiler for a third-round pick.

The Browns are willing to throw in a fifth-rounder and are open to paying half of Osweiler's salary. Per Cabot, if the Browns can't find a taker, they'll release Osweiler and eat the $16 million remaining on his contract. The Browns are positioning themselves to make a run at Patriots QB Jimmy Garoppolo. Cabot's report all but confirms that Osweiler will never play a down in Cleveland.


I hope not. If Brady goes down this year, it will be very tough on the road to SB.

 

[goheels22002]

Butler will be traded.

It's tough to know what Belichick is thinking, but I do know that he remembers the Seattle SB and how great it was to have Revis, Browner, and Butler when it mattered.

The cornerback position sure looks good with Rowe, Gilmore and Butler. It seems like Logan Ryan's departure made it possible to hang onto Butler. Somebody has to be willing to give up their #1 to sign him as a tendered RFA.

I liked Cyrus Jones' reaction to a sub-par rookie season. If he comes in looking to make a statement, the secondary will be outstanding.

If Hightower and Butler return, this defense is once again loaded.

 

[pherein]

trade NO with our #1 drafts please

 

[RobertWeathers]

It's tough to know what Belichick is thinking, but I do know that he remembers the Seattle SB and how great it was to have Revis, Browner, and Butler when it mattered.

The cornerback position sure looks good with Rowe, Gilmore and Butler. It seems like Logan Ryan's departure made it possible to hang onto Butler. Somebody has to be willing to give up their #1 to sign him as a tendered RFA.

I liked Cyrus Jones' reaction to a sub-par rookie season. If he comes in looking to make a statement, the secondary will be outstanding.

If Hightower and Butler return, this defense is once again loaded.

I want nothing more than Malcolm getting a nice extension and finishing his career here.

Between his agent and the Gilmore Girls deal, I believe Malcolm is not happy, BB knows it and with the Collins situation fresh in his mind I have a feeling he's more inclined to move Malcolm for a pick than try to keep him and lose him in 2018

 

[ivanvamp]

Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports the Browns are looking to trade Brock Osweiler for a third-round pick.

The Browns are willing to throw in a fifth-rounder and are open to paying half of Osweiler's salary. Per Cabot, if the Browns can't find a taker, they'll release Osweiler and eat the $16 million remaining on his contract. The Browns are positioning themselves to make a run at Patriots QB Jimmy Garoppolo. Cabot's report all but confirms that Osweiler will never play a down in Cleveland.


I hope not. If Brady goes down this year, it will be very tough on the road to SB.

That makes it no different than any other year.

 

[Simpelton]

Wait.

So in theory, if we trade Jimmy G and take half of Brock Osweiler's contract, we get a quarterback who, while damaged goods, is probably good enough to hold a clipboard and might be salvageable based on assessments of his talent prior to this year, and maybe with a bit of jockeying (throw in a future first or a current third or something) that would be enough to get the top overall pick?

That's an.... interesting concept. We may be able to leverage Osweiler's contract to our advantage here if we have enough cap space and play our cards right, and then use Osweiler as the backup quarterback he always should have been and maybe even "fix" him.

Of course that's dependent on BB concluding that Osweiler's fixable but still... interesting.

 

[50-yard-line]

Cooks will be going into next season as a 23 year old. We basically used the 32nd pick on Brandin Cooks who has proven to be a capable NFL player.

The 32nd pick and somewhere around $55million in cap space spread over those 5 years.

 

[deroc5050]

I agree with you on Jimmy being traded.

I have changed my mind on this because I feel Brady is here for another three years minimum. No way Jimmy will sign an extension to be a backup. No way the Pats give him a big contract to be a backup.

We need to get back into the first and second rounds of this loaded draft especially after we lost our first last year. The future is built on the draft. Those early rounders are vital

They carried Brissette on the roster late last year so he could get practice reps. If they thought Jimmy was going to be here long term they would have rather have had an extra positional player on the roster and IR'd Brissette.

This is what doesn't make sense. There is no ****ing chance that BB would pass up the 12th pick and 2 2nds or what ever the case may be.

If Jimmy is not traded this off season then you have to think they are keeping him.
The only other reason why they would keep JG is because they actually haven't been offered anything worthwhile which is highly unlikely. But who knows.

 

[deroc5050]

Wait.

So in theory, if we trade Jimmy G and take half of Brock Osweiler's contract, we get a quarterback who, while damaged goods, is probably good enough to hold a clipboard and might be salvageable based on assessments of his talent prior to this year, and maybe with a bit of jockeying (throw in a future first or a current third or something) that would be enough to get the top overall pick?

That's an.... interesting concept. We may be able to leverage Osweiler's contract to our advantage here if we have enough cap space and play our cards right, and then use Osweiler as the backup quarterback he always should have been and maybe even "fix" him.

Of course that's dependent on BB concluding that Osweiler's fixable but still... interesting.

Honestly from what I have heard and seen from Brock.. he has douche written all over him.

 

[deroc5050]

Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports the Browns are looking to trade Brock Osweiler for a third-round pick.

The Browns are willing to throw in a fifth-rounder and are open to paying half of Osweiler's salary. Per Cabot, if the Browns can't find a taker, they'll release Osweiler and eat the $16 million remaining on his contract. The Browns are positioning themselves to make a run at Patriots QB Jimmy Garoppolo. Cabot's report all but confirms that Osweiler will never play a down in Cleveland.


I hope not. If Brady goes down this year, it will be very tough on the road to SB.

If Brady goes down there is no Super Bowl. I bet Jimmy could take us far though. We just don't know how he will perform banged up and under pressure.

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

This is what doesn't make sense. There is no ****ing chance that BB would pass up the 12th pick and 2 2nds or what ever the case may be.

If Jimmy is not traded this off season then you have to think they are keeping him.
The only other reason why they would keep JG is because they actually haven't been offered anything worthwhile which is highly unlikely. But who knows.

I agree. First off can you ever imagine BB going into a draft with no ammo. The unknown during the draft makes him have a need to have some cards. Why would they extend Brady to a team friendly contract to trade him or think he is gone after one season. I am sure if he went to another team he would want top dollar. If he was going to retire why redue the deal. They will get some of Clevlands picks

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Don't wanna call out names, but it's amazing the negative reactions I got for simply stating the obvious here:

Sunday 7: Jimmy Garoppolo trade talk will certainly continue with current draft situation for Patriots

The Patriots have never gone through a draft without making at least one selection in the first or second round. Given how much Bill Belichick loves working the draft board, it’s hard to imagine him entering a draft without a pick until the third round (No. 72 overall). So how will Belichick get some draft picks? The easy solution would be trading Jimmy Garoppolo. Look at how many draft picks the Browns have — two first-round picks (Nos. 1 and 12 overall) and then two second-round picks. They also have three second-round picks in 2018 in addition to their own first-rounder, so it’s clear the Browns have the draft picks the Patriots could potentially want​

 

[Simpelton]

Again, I find this thinking overconventional, especially when we're talking about Bill freaking Belichick, who is never afraid to do things he's never done before. Just because we're rigid in our prejudices doesn't mean the GCOAT is. If he wasn't comfortable with deciding to go into the draft with zero firsts and seconds, he simply wouldn't have dealt the ones he already had.

i don't think it's impossible that Jimmy G is dealt, not by a long shot. I do think that the reason that Jimmy G is dealt will have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that the Patriots have never gone into a draft with zero first or second rounders before. That argument smells more like a mediot narrative than anything that might actually motivate a head coach, especially one of the best head coaches ever. Arguing precedent where BB is concerned is meaningless. Precedent doesn't win football games and no one knows that better than Bill.

Jimmy G will get dealt if the Browns and Patriots meet a reasonable mutual price point that's worth the risk both teams will be taking and if that doesn't happen it doesn't happen. Full stop.

 

[manxman2601]

Had an interesting exchange with Michael McDermott from PatsPulpit... he apparently thinks Butler would be a better trade chip than Garoppolo - whom he sees as a major necessity for emsuring Brady has insurance in a All-In, Win-Now 2017 season

He's not wrong. This roster is so strong, it can still win with Jimmy G if Brady goes down. One of the best all-round receiving corps and one of the best secondaries along with a good run stopping front 6. It would be harder to go to the SB with Jimmy G but not impossible.

Edit: The Jimmy G part I'm talking about. I'd prefer to keep Butler too. I'm fine with passing on the first two rounds this year. This team is young, has mostly middle-term deals for key players and is absolutely built to win now, next year and the year beyond.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Again, I find this thinking overconventional, especially when we're talking about Bill freaking Belichick, who is never afraid to do things he's never done before. Just because we're rigid in our prejudices doesn't mean the GCOAT is. If he wasn't comfortable with deciding to go into the draft with zero firsts and seconds, he simply wouldn't have dealt the ones he already had.

i don't think it's impossible that Jimmy G is dealt, not by a long shot. I do think that the reason that Jimmy G is dealt will have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that the Patriots have never gone into a draft with zero first or second rounders before. That argument smells more like a mediot narrative than anything that might actually motivate a head coach, especially one of the best head coaches ever. Arguing precedent where BB is concerned is meaningless. Precedent doesn't win football games and no one knows that better than Bill.

Jimmy G will get dealt if the Browns and Patriots meet a reasonable mutual price point that's worth the risk both teams will be taking and if that doesn't happen it doesn't happen. Full stop.

You know for a simpleton, you sure have a way of creatively finding rationalizations

Ultimately, the value of drafting in the First and Second rounds comes down to the specific players Belichick wants and what they can offer to the team. There are probably at least a handful of prospects that likely will be taken off the board by pick #72 - that Belichick would find intriguing

 

[PP2]

Nope.

You are making the classic mistake. You are treating the draft as its own thing. THe draft is not its own thing. The draft is a means to an end and it is in no way to only means to that end.

BB's investor mentality is about building the roster, not the draft. If he can fill out the roster without drafting a single player, and that's the best way to achieve the plan, then that, my friend, is exactly what he's going to do.

Right now draft picks are a bit overinflated in value, the draft is an overhyped asset for a man who knows how to secure good players in other ways, such as FA reclamations and clever trades. SO he's moving the overpriced commodity for pieces that help the team now and getting good value on each exchange and not getting bogged down in the old-fashioned conventional thinking of Thou Shalt Have A First Round Pick -- exactly what a good investor does when an asset is overvalued..

You are correct in that BB's approach is to build as deep a roster as he can, which means that leading up to the final cutdown to 53, he is pretty much guaranteed to field as close to 90 players as he can on the off-season roster. As he often has said, it's not about the player's pedigree, it's about how well the player plays right now, on the field, and that's going to decide whether or not this player makes the final cut. I.e., he wants a large playing field in order to ensure that the best players possible end up on the 53.

And he is also (along with Kraft) about maximizing the value of the players (or picks), i.e., low cost, high potential, and those type of assets are the sort you can only get from the draft.

He has often traded down, or into next year as part of this "maximizing" value process, something that will be very hard to do this year without a first or second round pick to start this process.

Hence my thought that he wouldn't have done away with the picks unless he had a contingency for them. Of course I stand to be wrong- we'll see. But I believe he does take the draft seriously and so will not approach it at such disadvantage as he would if the draft started today.

 

[Simpelton]

Oh I do believe he takes the draft seriously. I just think that BB understands the principle of acceptable risk a little better than the fans do. Sometimes the only way to get what you want is to accept weaknesses and disadvantages in other areas.

The fact that his goal so far has reflected a desire to buff up the roster and play to the immediate strength of the team does not suggest, at least to me, that he plans to deal away from the roster to improve draft stock, especially not by dealing away a premium player like Butler when it's very reasonable to speculate that he's got his sights set on the next two seasons.

Garoppolo is a thornier issue. I see transition years ahead of the Patriots when Brady reaches the end of his career, whenever that might be. The idea of finding another Brady would be nice, but I consider it impractical, and I do not in the slightest think Garoppolo is that guy.

That said, Garoppolo is our best bet to have zero post-Brady transition years, in other words, our best bet to have a life after Brady that immediately includes the Patriots making the playoffs, so you don't deal that lightly, and certainly not simply to shore up your draft stock for a single season -- not when the objective is to load up and shoot for as many Superbowls as possible and to keep doing that after TB12 is gone. if we didn't fully expect to complete for playoff spots when Brady was gone then sure, go nuts, but that's not the position we're in. I'm reluctant to trade Jimmy G until I'm a lot surer than I am right now that we can replace him in the next 3 years with an equivalent or better player.