Bills FA CB Stephon Gilmore signs 5-year deal w/New England

[bbobbo]

by "keep him" do you mean sign him to an extension instead of assigning the RFA 1st-round tender?
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Yes

so the options are:

1) butler for 5 years @ $14m/year

2) gilmore for 5 years @ $14m/year + butler for 1 year @ $3.9m + possible compensatory pick when butler leaves in free agency

3) gilmore for 5 years @ $14m/year + 1st-round pick if butler gets signed to another team

and if the butler/cooks trade goes through

4) gilmore for 5 years @ $14m/year + cooks for 2 years @ ~$4.6m/year + possible compensatory pick when cooks leaves in free agency

i think it's a no-brainer that you would do the gilmore deal even if you liked butler better, because there's no way to match the additional extras you get with the gilmore deal.
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[maineman209]

No it doesn't.. Cooks +2nd round pick is not worth 2- first round picks. No matter how you look at it..

Especially when it means cutting playing time for Mitchell.

How do you figure TWO first round picks?

They're basically trading Butler for Cooks and moving down 10 spots in the draft in that scenario.

I understand how a lot of folks are focused on Cooks' deep threat potential, but I see him more as a (one year early) replacement for Amendola/Edelman in the slot role with his deep speed being a bonus. I'm not sure how that cuts into Mitchell's potential snaps unless he seems destined to move into the slot role himself. Personally, I see Mitchell as more an X/Z type than Y.

 

[bigballas]

Can we trade Butler's rights and then sign him to an offer the Saints can't match? Theoretically?

yes, for the 32nd pick in the draft

 

[karguy85]

yes, for the 32nd pick in the draft

So we get Cooks for what we initially wanted to give up. I'll take it!

 

[patfanken]

IF the Pats can retain (slot corner) Ryan for around $11M-$12M, then trading Butler +#32 for Cooks +#42 makes more sense.

Then why not simply give the money to Butler who is the better CB.

The thing is if Gilmore is here with Butler, even without Ryan, then our secondary is definitely upgraded. If its Gilmore minus Butler and Ryan, then we will be struggling to coach up rookies and the midget young guys to get it back were it was last season, and it will take a whole season to do that.

THAT is why trading Butler makes so little sense. WHY are you paying such a big money guy in the secondary if it wasn't to make it even better. You don't make that kind of investment just to hope you can get it back to what it was.....and take an entire year to do it?

BTW- To @QuantumMechanic, I just ready\ where if there is a trade for Butler, he will have to SIGN his RFA deal for the trade to go through. FYI in case someone hasn't pointed that out already.

 

[brdmaverick]

so the options are:

1) butler for 5 years @ $14m/year

2) gilmore for 5 years @ $14m/year + butler for 1 year @ $3.9m + possible compensatory pick when butler leaves in free agency

3) gilmore for 5 years @ $14m/year + 1st-round pick if butler gets signed to another team

and if the butler/cooks trade goes through

4) gilmore for 5 years @ $14m/year + cooks for 2 years @ ~$4.6m/year + possible compensatory pick when cooks leaves in free agency

i think it's a no-brainer that you would do the gilmore deal even if you liked butler better, because there's no way to match the additional extras you get with the gilmore deal.
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You know, it's a pretty logical argument when you put it like that. Well, said, sir.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Then why not simply give the money to Butler who is the better CB.

I guess we are down to three reasonable guesses:

1. The Patriots are obsessed with Brandin Cooks and badly want him, so they are giving up what they need to, with Gilmore being their replacement for Butler.

2. The Patriots believe Gilmore is better than Butler.

3. The Patriots don't think they'll be able to sign Butler long-term, based on his contract demands, which may be even higher than Gilmore. Guaranteed money is usually the key factor.

Or could be a combination of all three.

 

[Froob]

Is Gilmore quite a bit faster than Ryan? I knew he was a good player but, didn't know he was going to Pro Bowls.

 

[maineman209]

Then why not simply give the money to Butler who is the better CB.

The thing is if Gilmore is here with Butler, even without Ryan, then our secondary is definitely upgraded. If its Gilmore minus Butler and Ryan, then we will be struggling to coach up rookies and the midget young guys to get it back were it was last season, and it will take a whole season to do that.

THAT is why trading Butler makes so little sense. WHY are you paying such a big money guy in the secondary if it wasn't to make it even better. You don't make that kind of investment just to hope you can get it back to what it was.....and take an entire year to do it?

BTW- To @QuantumMechanic, I just ready where if there is a trade for Butler, he will have to SIGN is RFA deal for it to go through. FYI in case someone hasn't already found that out.

I'm not entirely convinced that Butler is unequivocally the "best CB" for what the Pats (specifically) appear to be trying to do with their coverage schemes.

He's certainly an elite coverage guy on the left boundary, but I'm not so sure that he holds up that well on the right boundary or covering elite slot receivers. Just my opinion, but I feel that Ryan, Rowe and Gilmore all offer more positional/role versatility than Butler does and, thus - as a trio - make more coverage schemes viable.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I'm okay with this signing if Butler's making huge demands and the Pats are pretty sure they won't be able to extend him or sign him in FA. If so, this is a downgrade, but it puts us in at least a decent position going forward.

The money doesn't bother me much. I certainly don't love it, and I'm not a huge fan of Gilmore in general, but if Ryan's worth anywhere near $14M then Gilmore's worth that and then some. Gilmore's significantly better than Ryan. And who knows, by year 3-4 of this deal there's a good chance that his contract will be a good deal for a CB2.

 

[strngplyr]

Because you own the rights to said player by having tendered him an Restricted Free Agent offer.

That is how the Pats acquired Wes Welker.. They traded a 2nd and a 7th for Welker's rights and then signed him.

Actually I though the Pats threw in the extra pick to make it a trade and avoid the extension for a year?

 

[maineman209]

Is Gilmore quite a bit faster than Ryan? I knew he was a good player but, didn't know he was going to Pro Bowls.

Gilmore:
4.42/40, 36/VJ, 123/BJ, 3.94 shuttle, 6.61 3-cone

Ryan:
4.56/40, 32.5/VJ, 116/BJ, 4.06 shuttle, 6.69 3-cone

Rowe:
4.45/40, 39/VJ, 125/BJ, 3.97 shuttle, 6.70 3-cone

Butler:
4.62/40, 33.5/VJ, 118/BJ, 4.27 shuttle, 7.20 3-cone

Coleman:
4.53/40, 37.5/VJ, 124/BJ, 3.98 shuttle, 6.61 3-cone

Except for Rowe (6'1"), all these guys are between 5'10" - 6' tall and entered the league weighing between 185 and 190.

 

[luuked]

Is Gilmore quite a bit faster than Ryan? I knew he was a good player but, didn't know he was going to Pro Bowls.

I don't understand why so many people are trying to compare Gilmore with Ryan. Gilmore is not an inside CB. Cyrus and Jonathan Jones are the players you'd want to look at because it will be on them to play the slot, defend the run, tackle soundly and be an occasional blitzer. All things that Ryan excelled at.

 

[Ivan]

Just last night you said it would be a bad idea to make this kind of signing. What changed so fast?

I don't like this free agent market overall but I think that signing Gilmore gives them leverage with Butler as well as the ability to turn it into a deal for Cooks. In general I think the players who go off the board early in free agency are bad deals, Calais Campbell at 14 million makes no sense to me, and as far as the Gilmore signing goes I still want to see the real numbers. To me how this works out still depends upon the moves to be made, Hightower being the most important, but Branch and Harmon would help as well.

 

[fair catch fryar]

could mean butler traded for Cooks?

Holy ****. Is that you BB?

 

[Ivan]

Just last night you said it would be a bad idea to make this kind of signing. What changed so fast?

I also never looked seriously at the free agent CB's because I thought that they would be focused upon Butler, Ryan, and Harmon as well as the draft, going corner in free agency caught me completely by surprise, I never even considered Gilmore. Overall I think Butler is a better corner but if they come out of it losing Butler but adding Gilmore and Cooks then it's a big win for the Patriots imo.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I also never looked seriously at the free agent CB's because I thought that they would be focused upon Butler, Ryan, and Harmon as well as the draft, going corner in free agency caught me completely by surprise, I never even considered Gilmore. Overall I think Butler is a better corner but if they come out of it losing Butler but adding Gilmore and Cooks then it's a big win for the Patriots imo.

I don't think BB sees it as a 2 for 1.

It is clear as day to me that BB sees Gilmore as a superior player than Malcolm.

If he thought Malcolm was a better, more talented player in this system Gilmore would not be coming to NE.

 

[Nunchucks]

I don't think BB sees it as a 2 for 1.

It is clear as day to me that BB sees Gilmore as a superior player than Malcolm.

If he thought Malcolm was a better, more talented player in this system Gilmore would not be coming to NE.

Right, Gilmore is the better corner, he has been asked to do different things than Butler as well.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Right, Gilmore is the better corner, he has been asked to do different things than Butler as well.

This is the hard pill to swallow for me.

To me, BB thinks Gilmore is better than Malcolm.

I think Malcolm is better than Gilmore.

Thats why I'm sitting at a desk and typing on a fan board and BB has 50 years of watching football players telling him Gilmore is better.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I think if BB offered malcolm 14 million per year malcolm would have jumped. He clearly thinks gilmore is a number 1 corner and better than MB.