If we don't tag Hightower... Will you get a bit nervous?

[Ring 6]

I really don't see how they don't get a deal done with him. We saw how important executing the defense, being in the right position, and doing your job was to Belichick in 2016 when he traded Collins. Hightower does all that to a T, has made some major impact plays in the biggest moments, is co-captain of the defense, knows the playbook inside and out, and is responsible for a lot of pre-snap communication. I would actually be more inclined to believe that Hightower not getting franchised is actually a sign that talks on a long-term deal are going well.

Hightower has to want to stay

 

[BadMoFo]

Harmon is gone too. Forgot to mention it. The roster movement will be enormous. Expect growing pains early IMO particularly at LB.

Let me guess, in your opinion, Branch, Sheard and Long are also gone? And next year, Butler.

 

[Ring 6]

Carrying over money to next year (something they just did this year) is "delusional?" Tell that to almost 70 percent of the teams who had 25-30+ million in cap space this year.

You honestly and truly think the team who's won the SB in 2/3 last year suddenly has so many holes that 65m dollars and 10 draft picks are needed? And I'm the one who's "delusional?"

Well we have 38 guys under contract who contributed substantially last year, so we have a lot of spots to fill and that doesn't even include guys like karras or jones or Richards who could use upgrade.

 

[BobDigital]

Let me guess, in your opinion, Branch, Sheard and Long are also gone? And next year, Butler.

Nope. I think Branch/Long are back. Sheard is gone. They damn well better keep Butler. He is a 100% much sign at nearly any cost.

Branch/Long will be small reasonable deals. Harmon/Ryan will probably cost too much for them.

 

[supafly]

Well we have 38 guys under contract who contributed substantially last year, so we have a lot of spots to fill and that doesn't even include guys like karras or jones or Richards who could use upgrade.

And how many of those players will be signed for low money just to round out the roster and add competition? In other words, let's see all of these massive holes on the team, shall we?

Offense:

QB--fine
RB--can add a couple of players via FA or the draft, but certainly not a position that Belichick normally spends on. Still have White and Lewis. Likely still have Blount on the cheap. Bolden is obviously cheap and coincides with STs.
WR--fine
TE--like most years, they are trying to find a player to pair with Gronkowski. Nothing new here.
OL--Andrews, Mason, Solder, Thuney, and Cannon all return.

Defense:

DL--Need to retain Branch for approx. 4m a year. The usual amount of depth etc is needed. Still have Brown, Valentine, Flowers, etc.
LB--Hightower needs to be franchised at 15m for the year. The rest of the LB group remains intact.
CB--Butler, Rowe, C.Jones, and J.Jones all return. We need a nickel back to replace Ryan (oh, no--whatever are we going to do?) via the draft/free agency. Basically the same as any other year.
S--Still have our starting 2 intact with Chung and McCourty. It would be great to resign Harmon. If not, free agency/draft.

Special teams: Punter, PK, Holder, some lower paid role players to replace the likes of Mingo, etc. Someone like Bolden can be brought back on the cheap.

I see the usual amount of needs with increased volume of players this year, but absolutely nothing to suggest that almost 70m dollars is needed. The idea of "only" spending 40-45m dollars (much more than usual) and continuing to carry money into the future certainly does not make me "delusional" in any sense of the word.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

I'd be pretty nervous. If he walks though, #12 for JG might help an awful lot in landing an adequate replacement

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

-

Carrying over money to next year (something they just did this year) is "delusional?" Have you been paying attention to the amount of available cap space most teams have these days?

You honestly and truly think the team who's won the SB in 2/3 last year suddenly has so many holes that 65m dollars and 10 draft picks are needed? And I'm the one who's "delusional?"

Sir. They have 19 FA this year. They have $64,035,426 if they cut Waddle and Vollmer and extend Amendola ( HUGE paycut). It's simple. If you have 5 players that are huge part of the team you save more money that year.
They have 9 picks. Let's assume 7 to 53-man roster.

They don't have many holes but the depth will not be the same.

2-5m per
Alan Branch = 5m per
Chris Long = 3m per
LeGarrette Blount =PICK (STARTER)
Michael Floyd = PICK
Duron Harmon = PICK (STARTER)

5-15m per
Martellus Bennett = PICK (STARTER)
Jabaal Sheard = PICK (STARTER)
Donta Hightower = 13.5m
Logan Ryan = PICK (STARTER)
Malcolm Butler = 13.5m

Walk ( ST only guys + players that
Greg Scruggs = Who ?
Brandon Bolden = PICK

1-2m per
James Develin = 2m
Barkevious Mingo = 800k

2018

2-5m per
Rob Ninkovich
Dion Lewis
Kyle Van Noy
David Andrews

1-2m per
Matt Slater
Nate Ebner

6-11m per
Julian Edelman
Nate Solder

Walk
Rob Housler
James White
Tyler Gaffney
Chris Barker
Jamil Douglas
Darius Kilgo
Geneo Grissom
Trevor Bates
Glenn Gronkowski
Devin Lucien
Woodrow Hamilton
Chase Farris

 

[scott99]

No. I have stopped doubting Bill forever and ever as one of my promises during the super bowl

I agree, I'm not worried at all. Still enjoying an amazing SB victory, and whatever BB deems is right for the team, I'm fine with. Fully drinking the Koolaid until he retires.

 

[supafly]

-

Sir. They have 19 FA this year. They have $64,035,426 if they cut Waddle and Vollmer and extend Amendola ( HUGE paycut). It's simple. If you have 5 players that are huge part of the team you save more money that year.
They have 9 picks. Let's assume 7 to 53-man roster.

They don't have many holes but the depth will not be the same.

2-5m per
Alan Branch = 5m per
Chris Long = 3m per
LeGarrette Blount =PICK (STARTER)
Michael Floyd = PICK
Duron Harmon = PICK (STARTER)

5-15m per
Martellus Bennett = PICK (STARTER)
Jabaal Sheard = PICK (STARTER)
Donta Hightower = 13.5m
Logan Ryan = PICK (STARTER)
Malcolm Butler = 13.5m

Walk ( ST only guys + players that
Greg Scruggs = Who ?
Brandon Bolden = PICK

1-2m per
James Develin = 2m
Barkevious Mingo = 800k

2018

2-5m per
Rob Ninkovich
Dion Lewis
Kyle Van Noy
David Andrews

1-2m per
Matt Slater
Nate Ebner

6-11m per
Julian Edelman
Nate Solder

Walk
Rob Housler
James White
Tyler Gaffney
Chris Barker
Jamil Douglas
Darius Kilgo
Geneo Grissom
Trevor Bates
Glenn Gronkowski
Devin Lucien
Woodrow Hamilton
Chase Farris

Get back to me in a few weeks and we'll see how many of those projections ring true!

We'll have to see how it all shakes out, but I can practically guarantee that Belichick is thinking differently than the average fan, and there is certainly a need to continue to carry space over into the future. It is far from "delusional." It is precisely what most teams are doing.

 

[Ring 6]

And how many of those players will be signed for low money just to round out the roster and add competition? In other words, let's see all of these massive holes on the team, shall we?

Isnt that what draft choices are for?

We have a lot of important parts to replace with the cap money.
I will add comments in caps next to yours

Offense:

QB--fine
RB--can add a couple of players via FA or the draft, but certainly not a position that Belichick normally spends on. Still have White and Lewis. Likely still have Blount on the cheap. Bolden is obviously cheap and coincides with STs.
WE DONT HAVE BLOUNT. THIS IS A NEED
WR--fine
AMENDOLA CANT STAY AT 6 MILL+. WITH EDELMAN AND AMENDOLA CONTRACTS UP THIS YEAR WE NEED TO ADD SOMETHING
TE--like most years, they are trying to find a player to pair with Gronkowski. Nothing new here.
WE SPENT OVER 5 MILL TO DO IT LAST YEAR
OL--Andrews, Mason, Solder, Thuney, and Cannon all return.
WE NEED DEPTH. SOLDER IS IN HIS LAST CONTRACT YEAR.
FLEMING IS RFA AND COULD LEAVE, KARRAS IS UNPROVEN. BIG PLACE TO ADD PLAYERS.

Defense:

DL--Need to retain Branch for approx. 4m a year. The usual amount of depth etc is needed. Still have Brown, Valentine, Flowers, etc.
NO CLUE WHAT BRANCH COSTS. WE ARE LOSING 2 OF THE 4 ROTATION DE'S.
AS OF TODAY WE START NINK, BROWN, VALENTINE, FLOWERS
AND THE BACKUPS ARE JUST GRISSOM AND HAMILTON, GUYS WHO HAVE NEVER PLAYED.
WE PROBABLY NEED 4 ADDITIONS HERE, ALL NOT FOR CHEAP.
LB--Hightower needs to be franchised at 15m for the year. The rest of the LB group remains intact.
NOW WE KNOW HIGHTOWER ISNT BEING FRANCHISED, AND WITHOUT HIM WE NEED TO ADD MORE THAN 1 GUY TO THIS GROUP.
CB--Butler, Rowe, C.Jones, and J.Jones all return. We need a nickel back to replace Ryan (oh, no--whatever are we going to do?) via the draft/free agency. Basically the same as any other year.
BUTLER COULD BE TAKEN AWAY AS A RFA, OR TAKE UP A HUGE CAP HIT IF WE MATCH.
RYAN WAS MORE THAN THE JAG YOU IMPLY
S--Still have our starting 2 intact with Chung and McCourty. It would be great to resign Harmon. If not, free agency/draft.
WE NEED TO REPLACE HARMON WHO PLAYS HALF THE SNAPS
Special teams: Punter, PK, Holder, some lower paid role players to replace the likes of Mingo, etc. Someone like Bolden can be brought back on the cheap.

I see the usual amount of needs with increased volume of players this year, but absolutely nothing to suggest that almost 70m dollars is needed. The idea of "only" spending 40-45m dollars (much more than usual) and continuing to carry money into the future certainly does not make me "delusional" in any sense of the word.

We are down at least 7 starters, and 10 depth players. We rarely have that many spots to fill at this point.
This off-season is going to need a ton of work done.
I never used the word delusional, but to think we add all that for 40-45mill seems wrong.

 

[supafly]

Isnt that what draft choices are for?

We have a lot of important parts to replace with the cap money.
I will add comments in caps next to yours


We are down at least 7 starters, and 10 depth players. We rarely have that many spots to fill at this point.
This off-season is going to need a ton of work done.
I never used the word delusional, but to think we add all that for 40-45mill seems wrong.

I don't want to get into a back and forth where you break apart every thought to the Nth degree, but I respectfully disagree with some of this thinking.

No one brought up the idea of keeping Amendola at 6m dollars, and whether or not Blount stays is semi-pointless too. If he doesn't, they'll still get by just fine with a player of similar cost and/or draft pick.

I'm not sure what your opening sentence means in terms of "isn't that what draft picks are for," but this team has built numerous draft picks into starting positions. There's not much reason for me to believe that will change in terms of addressing all of these "needs" that you see.

To argue that we can't get by with a boatload of draft picks and about 45m dollars (that's as high as I'll go) seems "wrong" to me, as well. Belichick will be bringing over cap space and it will be more than this past year. This team is not anywhere near a dire situation.

We will see how it all unfolds.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't want to get into a back and forth where you break apart every thought to the Nth degree, but I respectfully disagree with some of this thinking.

No one brought up the idea of keeping Amendola at 6m dollars, and whether or not Blount stays is semi-pointless too. If he doesn't, they'll still get by just fine with a player of similar cost and/or draft pick.

I'm not sure what your opening sentence means in terms of "isn't that what draft picks are for," but this team has built numerous draft picks into starting positions. There's not much reason for me to believe that will change in terms of addressing all of these "needs" that you see.

To argue that we can't get by with a boatload of draft picks and about 45m dollars (that's as high as I'll go) seems "wrong" to me, as well. Belichick will be bringing over cap space and it will be more than this past year. This team is not anywhere near a dire situation.

We will see how it all unfolds.

Perhaps I am confused by your point, because I didn't read the whole exchange.
With so many spots open, why do you not want to spend what is available on the cap?

I'm not making it up, we really only have 38 realistic guys who could be expected to make the team under contract and we are without at least 7 starters. That costs a lot of money.
I get that you don't care if its Blount or someone else, but we need someone and that costs money.

That's what draft picks were for was because I was under the impression this conversation was about not needing many picks because we are 'loaded'. If I have that confused with a different conv, my bad.

 

[supafly]

Perhaps I am confused by your point, because I didn't read the whole exchange.
With so many spots open, why do you not want to spend what is available on the cap?

I'm not making it up, we really only have 38 realistic guys who could be expected to make the team under contract and we are without at least 7 starters. That costs a lot of money.
I get that you don't care if its Blount or someone else, but we need someone and that costs money.

That's what draft picks were for was because I was under the impression this conversation was about not needing many picks because we are 'loaded'. If I have that confused with a different conv, my bad.

Yeah, you make some excellent points regarding the need to field a team and I realize that, but I'm simply pointing out that people who think that Bill Belichick is going to spend (approx) 65m dollars this offseason aren't likely to be correct.

It isn't about how stacked I think we are, but more of an opinion that everything can be addressed while still leaving options open down the road by carrying money over. Belichick is going to carry money over (IMO). How much is the real debate.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

Let's say that we offered him 37.5 3 year deal with 28 million guaranteed and someone else offered him 56 million for 4 years with 35 million guaranteed. Anyone think he's gone after that? My point's would he leave millions to stay with the pats? There has to be a breaking point.

 

[Halifax_Pats_Fan]

No.

 

[PatsGuy]

I agree, I'm not worried at all. Still enjoying an amazing SB victory, and whatever BB deems is right for the team, I'm fine with. Fully drinking the Koolaid until he retires.

Yup
N 2+2= 5

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

Get back to me in a few weeks and we'll see how many of those projections ring true!

We'll have to see how it all shakes out, but I can practically guarantee that Belichick is thinking differently than the average fan, and there is certainly a need to continue to carry space over into the future. It is far from "delusional." It is precisely what most teams are doing.

Patriots carry over $25M - 2017 ?????????????????????????????????????????

Patriots carry over $5,292,335 - 2016
Patriots carry over $1,347,882 - 2015
Patriots carry over $4.1 million - 2014
Patriots carry over $5.6M - 2013

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

Let me guess, in your opinion, Branch, Sheard and Long are also gone? And next year, Butler.

I think sheard and long will be gone. Branch might be resigned.

 

[supafly]

Patriots carry over $25M - 2017 ?????????????????????????????????????????

Patriots carry over $5,292,335 - 2016
Patriots carry over $1,347,882 - 2015
Patriots carry over $4.1 million - 2014
Patriots carry over $5.6M - 2013

Look, you can pretend that Belichick will always be here, but he's definitely going to leave the team in excellent shape both with cap space and draft resources. Not sure if you've noticed or not, but just because he has more money in his pocket doesn't mean that he's going to step outside of his value system and spend like a drunken sailor.

The years you've cited were years where they only had 15-20-25 million dollars available. This year we'll have close to 65-70. I honestly can't believe that you're taking this much issue with the idea of "only" spending 45m dollars, which will still be far more than any other year.

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

Look, you can pretend that Belichick will always be here, but he's definitely going to leave the team in excellent shape both with cap space and draft resources. Not sure if you've noticed or not, but just because he has more money in his pocket doesn't mean that he's going to step outside of his value system and spend like a drunken sailor.

The years you've cited were years where they only had 15-20-25 million dollars available. This year we'll have close to 65-70. I honestly can't believe that you're taking this much issue with the idea of "only" spending 45m dollars, which will still be far more than any other year.

They have that amount because they wanted to lock Cj, Ht and Collins IMO.

They have a price they're willing to pay, and that's why CJ left. Collins was a surprise cut.

They will always spend the money WISELY. And that's why they will never be in cap hell.

This year is not gonna be different IMO: E.g. Jared Odrick. They will no pay Sheard 7-8m+ but they pay Odrick 4.5m+.

I love DEPTH.