Aaron Rodgers: Tom Brady is the GOAT

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

>>check out profootballl reference and check out the stats of journeymen QBs when they played 3-4 games during a Montana injury

This is true. I looked up Steve Young's career recently and was surprised to see that I think he even played like 7 games during one of Joe's 4 Super Bowl years. Not totally sure but sure I saw that.

Here you go:

1984 - Matt Cavanaugh started one game. 33-61, 4/0, 99.7 rating, 1-0

1985 - Matt Cavanaugh started one game. 28-54, 1/1, 69.5 rating, 1-0. (Montana lost 17-3 in the playoffs

1986 - Jeff Kemp started six games. 119-200, 11/8, 85.7 rating. 3-2-1. (Montana had an 80.7 rating, five points lower than Kemp. Montana was benched for Kemp in a 49-3 loss.)

1987 - Steve Young started three games. 37-69, 10/0, 120.8 rating. 3-0. (Young's passer rating 18 points higher than Montana. Montana was again benched in the playoffs in a loss.)

1988 - Steve Young started two games. 54-101, 3/3, 72.2 rating, 2-1. (Montana's passer rating was better at 87.9.; he went 8-5).

1989 - Steve Young started three games. 64-92, 8/3, 120.8 rating, 3-0. (Young had a higher passer rating than Montanta by 8 points. Montana missed four games, yet this was won the the MVP, though people said Brady couldn't win it for missed games.)

After Montana left, Young consistently had more production in the offense. While Young gets a lot of flack for "only" one Super Bowl, Montatna laid plenty of eggs in the playoffs and played there 11 years in his prime.

49ers Defenses, Points Allowed, 1981-89

1981 - 2nd
1982 (strike season)
1983 - 4th
1984 - 1st
1985 - 2nd
1986- 3rd
1987 - 3rd
1988 - 8th
1989 - 3rd
1990 - 2nd

 

[ivanvamp]

Quarterback runs from pocket
Quarterback hits wide open receiver on the sideline


That play happens about a million times a season. There's probably not a single QB, starter or backup, in the NFL, who couldn't have made that throw.


Rodgers has made hundreds of better/more difficult throws in his NFL career.

You make it sound way simpler than it was.

Consider the circumstances. Running to his *left*, across his body. Throwing an absolute laser 20+ yards downfield on a dime. In the last few seconds of a playoff game to set up a win.

Deus, you're crazy if you think that wasn't a phenomenal play by Rodgers.

 

[Deus Irae]

You make it sound way simpler than it was.

Consider the circumstances. Running to his *left*, across his body. Throwing an absolute laser 20+ yards downfield on a dime. In the last few seconds of a playoff game to set up a win.

Deus, you're crazy if you think that wasn't a phenomenal play by Rodgers.

He rolled left. He all but stopped. He set himself. He then ran forward and threw. He wasn't throwing across his body. It's a throw that, probably, 90% of us have made in a random pickup game.

 

[ivanvamp]

He rolled left. He all but stopped. He set himself. He then ran forward and threw. He wasn't running across his body. It's a throw that, probably, 90% of us have made in a random pickup game.

He was running forward and to his left. Yes, throwing across his body. In a desperate attempt to win a playoff game on the road. Throwing an absolute laser 20+ yards downfield (actually it was 36 yards in the air) on an absolute dime to a receiver who barely had enough space to get his feet down.

I don't know why you think you've ever made a throw in your life half as good as this throw.

Sometimes you like to be stubborn, I get it, that's how you are. But there's just no reason to be stubborn on this one. It was a great, clutch, tremendous throw. You've never done anything like that in your athletic life. To suggest that 90% of us have made that throw in a random pickup game is laughable.

But whatever, Deus. Think what you will.

 

[Deus Irae]

He was running forward and to his left. Yes, throwing across his body.

Stop. Just stop. I posted the video. He's running forward. He's got just the slightest drift on his angle. It's meaningless.

I don't know why you think you've ever made a throw in your life half as good as this throw.

Because I have, lots of times. NFL QBs make that throw. College QBs make that throw. High school QBs make that play. Backyard football QBs make that throw. The best part of that play, for Rodgers, isn't the throw. The best part is when he starts running forward after setting himself following the initial scramble. That probably helped get the TE so wide open, because it probably impacted the defensive coverage (I can't say that for sure, because I haven't heard the defender comment on it).

But there's just no reason to be stubborn on this one.

Take our own advice.

 

[ivanvamp]

Stop. Just stop. I posted the video. He's running forward. He's got just the slightest drift on his angle. It's meaningless.



Because I have, lots of times. NFL QBs make that throw. College QBs make that throw. High school QBs make that play. Backyard football QBs make that throw. The best part of that play, for Rodgers, isn't the throw. The best part is when he starts running forward after setting himself following the initial scramble. That probably helped get the TE so wide open, because it probably impacted the defensive coverage (I can't say that for sure, because I haven't heard the defender comment on it).



Take our own advice.

I think I'll listen to the NFL QBs like Hall of Famer Troy Aikman who thought it was an incredible play by Rodgers over you, thank you very much.

This conversation is hilarious.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think I'll listen to the NFL QBs like Hall of Famer Troy Aikman who thought it was an incredible play by Rodgers over you, thank you very much.

This conversation is hilarious.

Good idea. TV and Radio guys never play up what happens on the field.

Yes, this conversation is hilarious, but not for the reason you seem to think.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Good on ya, Aaron. And, you know full well that if anybody asks Tom Brady whether you're the greatest QB playing the game today, he'll say something like "Sure. Aaron's the best."

Why? Because you and he are classy guys.

Poor Joe.

He retired in 1994 at the age of 38. He last won more than ten games as a starter in 1990. That's over a quarter of a century ago.

Ever since he retired, he's heard nothing but "Joe Montana is the greatest QB in the history of the NFL." That became who he was. After Eli, Tyree and Manningham kept Brady from winning his fourth, Joe felt secure as Brady entered his late thirties.

Even when Brady won his fourth, people would still say that Joe went 4--0 and Brady, horrors!, lost two SB's, failing of course to recognize that we don't know what Montana would have done had he played in six SB's because, well, he'd never led a team to six Conference Championships.

The fact that Brady eclipsed every regular and post season record that Montana ever held or set, didn't matter. Joe was still the greatest, in the minds of most, because he still had his four rings and Brady had four rings but "Joe" was "Joe."

Then, somewhere around 11PM EST on the night of February 5, 2017, Terry Bradshaw (another guy with four Rings as QB) said to Tom Brady on a podium in Houston before a global TV audience, "you are the greatest."

We all know that Joe was watching. Time must have stood still for him at that moment.

He couldn't bring himself to tweet congratulations. He couldn't bring himself to say anything for the better part of a week. When he spoke, he sounded defensive and spiteful.

Unlike Roger Staubach, Montana hasn't built a billion dollar real estate empire.

Unlike Terry Bradshaw and Troy Aikman, Joe hasn't built a second career in Broadcasting.

No, Joe has spent his retirement doing occasional commercials and just being "Joe Montana, the Greatest Quarterback in the history of the NFL."

Until he wasn't....

 

[ivanvamp]

Good idea. TV and Radio guys never play up what happens on the field.

Sure they do. And they also tell it like it is a lot of the time. This is one of those times.

Yes, this conversation is hilarious, but not for the reason you seem to think.

Keep telling yourself that. It will make you feel better, perhaps.

 

[Deus Irae]

Sure they do. And they also tell it like it is a lot of the time. This is one of those times.

No, it's not.

Keep telling yourself that. It will make you feel better, perhaps.

I feel fine. Like I said, Rodgers has made hundreds of better throws in his career. That one's just being overrated, because of when it happened.

 

[ivanvamp]

No, it's not.



I feel fine. Like I said, Rodgers has made hundreds of better throws in his career. That one's just being overrated, because of when it happened.

That he may have made better throws in his career (he is an all time great QB of course) doesn't diminish how great this play was.

Yet you seem to think it's something that random dudes playing pickup do all the time.

Which is about a stupid a viewpoint as it gets around here. And that's saying something.

EDIT: I'm virtually never this black-and-white but I just cannot believe how dismissive and patronizing you are about this. Deus, most people can't even throw a football 36 yards. He threw it on the move - an absolute laser - on an absolute DIME, in one of the most pressure packed moments of his career with a playoff game on the line. You think that random guys in pickup can do this.... it's just phenomenally ridiculous.

 

[FourierSeries]

Cool, but this playoff choke artist's opinion doesn't really matter to me. Brady has been the GOAT for a while now. Good for him for stating the obvious, I guess?

 

[Deus Irae]

That he may have made better throws in his career (he is an all time great QB of course) doesn't diminish how great this play was.

Correct.

Yet you seem to think it's something that random dudes playing pickup do all the time.

Teams practice rollout throws to the sideline, for crying out loud.

Which is about a stupid a viewpoint as it gets around here. And that's saying something.

EDIT: I'm virtually never this black-and-white but I just cannot believe how dismissive and patronizing you are about this.

I'll just let the irony of your post speak for itself, from here.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

That's ridiculous.

QBs alone don't win championships, teams do, but you already made that point yourself regarding a terrible QB like Dilfer.

If you look at Rodgers go to work on the field it's not difficult to come to the conclusion that on a skill level he's on of the best. He doesn't have one of the most accomplished careers ever but if I needed to win a game today and I could chose any QB in their prime I'd take Rodgers right after TFB.

Not true, you don't have to go to or win championships to be mentioned in the top 5. Right when they retired, both Marino and Fouts were considered top 5 QBs at that time. yes they've been surpassed by Brady, Brees and Manning, but neither won a SB and were considered top 5 alltime, at worst top 10 when they retired. Rodgers, I'd say he's in the top 10 alltime right now, maybe top 7. Overall I'd take him over Roethlisberger, he had the worst QB rating EVER by a winning SB QB in the victory over Seattle. Was gifted a championship. Rodgers played great in his one SB.

Championships alone don't determine it, I agree. But today be top 5, you need to do more than one.

Brady, Montana, Manning, Elway, Favre, all have more championship game appearances and cumulative stats than Rodgers, and a lot of that was compiled in a different era where it was much tougher to be a QB.

Then we get to the old school guys, Bradshaw, Graham, Starr, they all belong ahead of Rodgers.

So no, he can't be in the top 5 discussion. Maybe borderline top 10, but I think even then, he's just outside.

Feel free to put together your top 10 lists with Rodgers though. I'd like to see who you put him ahead.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Championships alone don't determine it, I agree. But today be top 5, you need to do more than one.

Brady, Montana, Manning, Elway, Favre, all have more championship game appearances and cumulative stats than Rodgers, and a lot of that was compiled in a different era where it was much tougher to be a QB.

Then we get to the old school guys, Bradshaw, Graham, Starr, they all belong ahead of Rodgers.

So no, he can't be in the top 5 discussion. Maybe borderline top 10, but I think even then, he's just outside.

Feel free to put together your top 10 lists with Rodgers though. I'd like to see who you put him ahead.

If you had to pick any of those QBs, in their prime, to win a game today, who would you pick over Rodgers?

 

[1960Pats]

BTW, he calls Green Bay "TitleTown". I get the history of that name and all that...but come on.

GB has won 13 titles in 95 years of play. That's almost 14% of the titles for which they competed. That's far and away the best of any other team.

Speaking of the title %, with the win this season the Pats moved from a tie with SF at #8 with 7% to a tie with the Cowboys at #5 with 9%.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I don't think a lot of NFL fans understand:

1. How good the Packers OL is at pass blocking. They are arguably better than the Cowboys in that regard.

2. How that unit allows Rodgers to play the way he does & how he's played when they haven't been top notch (sacks on sacks on sacks).

There's some plays Rodgers holds onto the ball for 6-7 seconds. His sandlot style of play would probably get him killed on the Seahawks.


Amazing arm talent (probably the best ever) but he's not close to the precision passer from the pocket of Brady/Manning/Brees. He's a unique player.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

I am sure rodgers's envious but hey at least

Here you go:

1984 - Matt Cavanaugh started one game. 33-61, 4/0, 99.7 rating, 1-0

1985 - Matt Cavanaugh started one game. 28-54, 1/1, 69.5 rating, 1-0. (Montana lost 17-3 in the playoffs

1986 - Jeff Kemp started six games. 119-200, 11/8, 85.7 rating. 3-2-1. (Montana had an 80.7 rating, five points lower than Kemp. Montana was benched for Kemp in a 49-3 loss.)

1987 - Steve Young started three games. 37-69, 10/0, 120.8 rating. 3-0. (Young's passer rating 18 points higher than Montana. Montana was again benched in the playoffs in a loss.)

1988 - Steve Young started two games. 54-101, 3/3, 72.2 rating, 2-1. (Montana's passer rating was better at 87.9.; he went 8-5).

1989 - Steve Young started three games. 64-92, 8/3, 120.8 rating, 3-0. (Young had a higher passer rating than Montanta by 8 points. Montana missed four games, yet this was won the the MVP, though people said Brady couldn't win it for missed games.)

After Montana left, Young consistently had more production in the offense. While Young gets a lot of flack for "only" one Super Bowl, Montatna laid plenty of eggs in the playoffs and played there 11 years in his prime.

49ers Defenses, Points Allowed, 1981-89

1981 - 2nd
1982 (strike season)
1983 - 4th
1984 - 1st
1985 - 2nd
1986- 3rd
1987 - 3rd
1988 - 8th
1989 - 3rd
1990 - 2nd

And people say those 49ers team's where not stacked lmao. The AFC was mostly a joke in those times as well.

 

[Ring 6]

That's ridiculous.

QBs alone don't win championships, teams do, but you already made that point yourself regarding a terrible QB like Dilfer.

If you look at Rodgers go to work on the field it's not difficult to come to the conclusion that on a skill level he's on of the best. He doesn't have one of the most accomplished careers ever but if I needed to win a game today and I could chose any QB in their prime I'd take Rodgers right after TFB.

Any QB ever in their prime?
Rodgers is not #2.

Brady
Montana
Then in no specific order these guys have earned that honor more than Rodgers

Staubach
Elway
Aikman
Roethlisberger
Graham
Starr
Manning (his post season smallness that clearly separates him from the best is not substantially worse than Rodgers)

Guys like Favre, Young, Brees Warner are toss up vs Rodgers


Apologies to any I left off as I did this from the hip

 

[Ring 6]

Not true, you don't have to go to or win championships to be mentioned in the top 5. Right when they retired, both Marino and Fouts were considered top 5 QBs at that time. yes they've been surpassed by Brady, Brees and Manning, but neither won a SB and were considered top 5 alltime, at worst top 10 when they retired. Rodgers, I'd say he's in the top 10 alltime right now, maybe top 7. Overall I'd take him over Roethlisberger, he had the worst QB rating EVER by a winning SB QB in the victory over Seattle. Was gifted a championship. Rodgers played great in his one SB.

marino and fouts were considered top 5 stat compilers when they retired not top 5 allbtime QBs.