Aaron Rodgers: Tom Brady is the GOAT

[Snake Eyes]

Any QB ever in their prime?
Rodgers is not #2.

Brady
Montana
Then in no specific order these guys have earned that honor more than Rodgers

Staubach
Elway
Aikman
Roethlisberger
Graham
Starr
Manning (his post season smallness that clearly separates him from the best is not substantially worse than Rodgers)

Guys like Favre, Young, Brees Warner are toss up vs Rodgers


Apologies to any I left off as I did this from the hip

I said nothing about "earning more honor", I spoke only about winning a game.

I have a better chance of winning a game today with Rodgers as my QB than with Staubach, Elway, Aikman, Roethlisberger, Graham, Starr, or Manning.

 

[Tony2046]

Sure they do. And they also tell it like it is a lot of the time. This is one of those times.



Keep telling yourself that. It will make you feel better, perhaps.

He set his feet......


Ran forward and threw it down the sideline.....


To a wide open guy.




"Incredible" "No one in the history of the NFL could ever throw that pass".....

 

[Ring 6]

I said nothing about "earning more honor", I spoke only about winning a game.

I have a better chance of winning a game today with Rodgers as my QB than with Staubach, Elway, Aikman, Roethlisberger, Graham, Starr, or Manning.

Well that's because they are all too old to play.
In their prime, no. You might have a better chance to throw up stats, but these guys won more than Rodgers does.

 

[Tony2046]

If you had to pick any of those QBs, in their prime, to win a game today, who would you pick over Rodgers?

It's not about winning one game. It's about winning a season. Leadership, being a good teammate, make others better etc.... Having a great arm is only one part of the equation.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Well that's because they are all too old to play.
In their prime, no. You might have a better chance to throw up stats, but these guys won more than Rodgers does.

QBs alone don't win, TEAMS win.

 

[Tony2046]

QBs alone don't win, TEAMS win.

Generals don't win wars, battalions do.

CEO's don't create successful companies, workers do.

Teachers don't get good grades, students do.

"If I'm going to win one game I'm going with Aaron Rodgers because teams win"

 

[Ring 6]

QBs alone don't win, TEAMS win.

Largely because of QBs.
Over the course of a career a QB is what his record of winning is because, you know, that's why they play the game.

Almost every one if the winningest QBs of all time started with a team that sucked before they arrived.

Playing QB isn't about passing stats it's about making plays that win games.

 

[libra957]

I respect Rodgers as the most efficient quarterback of all time and he is spot on about Tom.Only the most ardent Montana fans(it's only a few) and Montana himself will argue otherwise and they're fighting a losing battle. As Ted Well would say, it's more probable than not that Tom is now the GOAT.

 

[ivanvamp]

He set his feet......
View attachment 16381

Yes.

Ran forward and threw it down the sideline.....
View attachment 16382

Forward and to his left. Not just forward.

To a wide open guy.

View attachment 16383

Not really wide open, because the sideline acts as a defender there.

And it was a laser 36 yards downfield.

Under a pressure-packed moment with a playoff game on the line.

"Incredible"

Yes, it was.

"No one in the history of the NFL could ever throw that pass".....

I never once said that "no one in the history of the NFL could ever throw that pass". Never. Favre could have made that throw. Elway too. There is no throw ever made in the NFL that "could never be made by any other QB in the history of the NFL". Is that really the only gauge of whether a throw is great or not?

I am just saying that Deus' claim that this is a throw that most guys playing pick up football could make is ludicrous.

 

[GoBlue]

If you had as many opportunities to watch Green Bay as I have you'd quickly notice everyone on their offensive lines holds every play..

 

[Tony2046]

Yes.



Forward and to his left. Not just forward.



Not really wide open, because the sideline acts as a defender there.

And it was a laser 36 yards downfield.

Under a pressure-packed moment with a playoff game on the line.



Yes, it was.



I never once said that "no one in the history of the NFL could ever throw that pass". Never. Favre could have made that throw. Elway too. There is no throw ever made in the NFL that "could never be made by any other QB in the history of the NFL". Is that really the only gauge of whether a throw is great or not?

I am just saying that Deus' claim that this is a throw that most guys playing pick up football could make is ludicrous.

Usually when someone says "He was running to his left" and "threw across his body" it means the QB used only arm strength to throw the ball down field. Rogers was running forwards and used his body to make that throw. It wasn't across his body and he wasn't running to his left. His body was facing forward. It's very clear in the youtube video.

Throwing to a receiver on the sideline is a designed and practiced play that happens all the time. Every sunday. Every week. Every year. By just about every QB including those who are playing in the back yard. My flag football playing son throws a sideline pass on a designed play every saturday. They snap the ball and roll right or left and hit a guy on the sideline. Granted it's only ten or fifteen yards. He's only ten so maybe by the time he's thirteen he'll be able to make an Aaron Rodgers throw. (Just kidding)

Deus's original comment was in response to my post regarding the two commentators stating "No other QB could make that throw". Which is ridiculous.

Was it a good throw. Sure. Was it a great throw? No. Dramatic? Yes.

He was wide open.

This is what Aaron saw before he made the throw. Wide open.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

other surprising news...

 

[Tony2046]

If you had as many opportunities to watch Green Bay as I have you'd quickly notice everyone on their offensive lines holds every play..

True but they are a really good O line.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Generals don't win wars, battalions do.

CEO's don't create successful companies, workers do.

Teachers don't get good grades, students do.

"If I'm going to win one game I'm going with Aaron Rodgers because teams win"

QBs ALONE...

That you don't recognize that very important qualifier makes your entire post a fail.

 

[ivanvamp]

Usually when someone says "He was running to his left" and "threw across his body" it means the QB used only arm strength to throw the ball down field. Rogers was running forwards and used his body to make that throw. It wasn't across his body and he wasn't running to his left. His body was facing forward. It's very clear in the youtube video.

Throwing to a receiver on the sideline is a designed and practiced play that happens all the time. Every sunday. Every week. Every year. By just about every QB including those who are playing in the back yard. My flag football playing son throws a sideline pass on a designed play every saturday. They snap the ball and roll right or left and hit a guy on the sideline. Granted it's only ten or fifteen yards. He's only ten so maybe by the time he's thirteen he'll be able to make an Aaron Rodgers throw. (Just kidding)

Deus's original comment was in response to my post regarding the two commentators stating "No other QB could make that throw". Which is ridiculous.

Was it a good throw. Sure. Was it a great throw? No. Dramatic? Yes.

He was wide open.

This is what Aaron saw before he made the throw. Wide open.
View attachment 16387

No, that's not what Aaron saw before he made the throw. That's what someone looking across the field from an elevated position would have seen. What Rodgers would have seen was that, as Cowboy defenders were pursuing him and the game clock was ticking down close to zero, Byron Jones was almost in a direct line (from Rodgers' angle) between him and Cook (about a yard from being in a direct line, if you've seen the All-22 film from the end zone). As Rodgers was moving forward and yes, to his left as well (moving at about a 10:00 or 11:00 angle), he was trying to squeeze the ball between Jones and the sideline. A throw that still was somewhat across his body, meaning that the natural flight of the ball would have been towards the sideline. Meaning that he had to throw the ball inside a little more, near Jones, and let the natural motion pull it towards the sidelines.

Jones wasn't blanketing Cook, and if Rodgers was stationary it would have been a much easier throw, but he wasn't stationary.

In that situation, under those circumstances, making that throw was a tremendous football play. It wasn't the greatest throw ever. It wasn't a throw that "no one else in the NFL could make". But it was a great throw in a huge moment under tremendous pressure - a 36 yard laser on the move to thread the needle on the sideline in the waning moments of a road playoff game.

You guys talk like just because other quarterbacks have the physical ability to make a play like that, that it therefore means that it wasn't a great throw.

There is NO throw that Tom Brady has EVER made, under that criteria, that qualifies as great. Plenty of other QBs throughout league history have had the ability to make any throw Tom Brady has ever made. Even that insane 70 yarder to Moss that he *almost* connected on at the end of SB 42 can be done by other NFL QBs. Heck, there's video of Micael Vick actually completing a throw that went about 70 yards in the air and hit DeSean Jackson in stride for a TD.

If you want to take it to Deus ridiculous levels, other than dunks, pretty much any shot that any NBA player has ever made has been made by some high school kid or some moron playing H-O-R-S-E in his back yard. Hell, we even see people who never ever have played basketball in their lives still sink half court shots at halftime. And we've seen high school players who will never sniff college make full-court shots to win games.

So by Deus' idiotic criteria, because random dudes playing pick up basketball can make all these shots on occasion, nothing ever qualifies as a "great shot" in the NBA.

And by what you guys are saying, there's no such thing as a great throw in the NFL, because teams practice those kinds of throws all the time.

It's absurd.

 

[patsrulenfl]

Did the Manning family forget to pay their monthly dues to Aaron?

 

[convertedpatsfan]

If you had to pick any of those QBs, in their prime, to win a game today, who would you pick over Rodgers?

You're moving the goal posts here. We're talking about the greatest of all time, and you realized Rodgers doesn't belong in the top 5, probably not even the top 10. You still haven't put together that list to show where you rank Rodgers all time, and instead you're trying to change the subject and narrow it down to one game.

I've heard this a few times, but I really don't know what this exactly means. I mean my answer is always Tom Brady because he's the GOAT, but what exactly does this one game entail?

Does it mean pick the best game played? If so, I nominate Steve Young's 6 TD Super Bowl. Or in adverse conditions, I could probably pick one of several Brady games. What type of offense are we playing in? Do we get one like Rodgers, where we continuously pump 2nd round picks into the skill positions for him, or is it a bunch of spare parts like Brady usually gets?

Who do we play? Is this against a random generic team? Or am I playing another GOAT contender? Because if we have to play a great QB, I want Brady. Or Montana. Or even Peyton Manning depending on the situation. Depending on the situation, it could be a bunch of guys before Rodgers.

I can't speak for the older generation in terms of a one-off game, as I didn't see Graham or Starr or Staubach. But just among modern QBs from my time watching the NFL, Rodgers isn't really in the top 3 at any given time.

If we're playing a tough team led by a great QB, odds are it could come down to the end. Rodgers's 30-28 record in games decided by 7 points or less doesn't exactly inspire confidence. I mean people like to make fun of Peyton Manning, but he was 77-40 in similar games. Brady is 65-29. Marino was 65-45, Montana was 45-38, and Jim Kelly was 45-25.

Is the game at home or on the road? It matters if you're taking Rodgers, who has won 79% of his home games, but only 52% of his road games. Unlike say Brady who has won 86% at home and 69% of his road games, or Manning who has won 77% of his home games and 64% of his road games. Montana won 68% of his games on the road as well.

Again, I'm not digging that deep into history here. But sure, if it's against some random middle-of-the-pack team for one game in fantasy football, I would consider Rodgers in the top 5. But if it's against real competition, and I'm not going to have home field advantage, I just can't do it.

I know the guy makes spectacular plays so everyone loves that, and he's great for fantasy football nerds. But all-time or one tough game, he's not my first or second or third choice. If it's a fantasy football championship game in week 16, maybe.

 

[Tony2046]

No, that's not what Aaron saw before he made the throw. That's what someone looking across the field from an elevated position would have seen. What Rodgers would have seen was that, as Cowboy defenders were pursuing him and the game clock was ticking down close to zero, Byron Jones was almost in a direct line (from Rodgers' angle) between him and Cook (about a yard from being in a direct line, if you've seen the All-22 film from the end zone). As Rodgers was moving forward and yes, to his left as well (moving at about a 10:00 or 11:00 angle), he was trying to squeeze the ball between Jones and the sideline. A throw that still was somewhat across his body, meaning that the natural flight of the ball would have been towards the sideline. Meaning that he had to throw the ball inside a little more, near Jones, and let the natural motion pull it towards the sidelines.

Jones wasn't blanketing Cook, and if Rodgers was stationary it would have been a much easier throw, but he wasn't stationary.

In that situation, under those circumstances, making that throw was a tremendous football play. It wasn't the greatest throw ever. It wasn't a throw that "no one else in the NFL could make". But it was a great throw in a huge moment under tremendous pressure - a 36 yard laser on the move to thread the needle on the sideline in the waning moments of a road playoff game.

You guys talk like just because other quarterbacks have the physical ability to make a play like that, that it therefore means that it wasn't a great throw.

There is NO throw that Tom Brady has EVER made, under that criteria, that qualifies as great. Plenty of other QBs throughout league history have had the ability to make any throw Tom Brady has ever made. Even that insane 70 yarder to Moss that he *almost* connected on at the end of SB 42 can be done by other NFL QBs. Heck, there's video of Micael Vick actually completing a throw that went about 70 yards in the air and hit DeSean Jackson in stride for a TD.

If you want to take it to Deus ridiculous levels, other than dunks, pretty much any shot that any NBA player has ever made has been made by some high school kid or some moron playing H-O-R-S-E in his back yard. Hell, we even see people who never ever have played basketball in their lives still sink half court shots at halftime. And we've seen high school players who will never sniff college make full-court shots to win games.

So by Deus' idiotic criteria, because random dudes playing pick up basketball can make all these shots on occasion, nothing ever qualifies as a "great shot" in the NBA.

And by what you guys are saying, there's no such thing as a great throw in the NFL, because teams practice those kinds of throws all the time.

It's absurd.

As you can see here Rodgers is under a ton of pressure. Holy smokes. "Watch out Aaron!!"



Another view. "Run Aaron Run!!"



Here he is loading up to throw. I know it looks like he's facing forward but that's because the camera lense was put in sideways.


Here's the dramatic catch in which Cook has to fight off the defender to make a dramatic two fingered grab on the sideline. It was a grab no Receiver could make in the history of the NFL. The Ball is circled in red.



Geez look at the tight coverage from this angle. Holy cow. Great job Aaron. Great job Cook. OMG. I've never seen anything so special. The Greatest Throw of all time. It shall be called the GTHROAT.



Now this is a great throw. Pin point accuracy and perfect timing between QB and Receiver. Hogan is completely covered. Brady throws before Hogan makes his break back to the ball.

 

[Tony2046]

QBs ALONE...

That you don't recognize that very important qualifier makes your entire post a fail.

Nope. I recognized you harping on about a team wins games which is true and then talking about taking a QB alone to win one game.

QB's need to be leaders of that team. Great QB's have to be great leaders through the offseason, OTA's, training camp, preseason and so on. Every inch counts.

Aaron is an elite QB. But he is not better than Staubach was or many other multi championship QB's.

Maybe Trent Dilfer wasn't a great QB but I'll bet he was a great teammate.

I'm not saying Aaron isn't great but there are ex teammates who think he's an ass. But again I think Aaron is the second or third best QB in the league right now. But not top ten all time.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

I guess wins are a team thing but passing stats aren't because QBs snap the ball to themselves, block for themselves, then throw the ball to themselves. If that doesn't work the make a defensive stop so they can do it again.