Edelman: "Jimmy G is a stud"

[Deus Irae]

Pending franchising Jimmy, don't the Patriots still risk him walking next year? Maybe I'm not sure how the tag works exactly.

He's in the final year of his deal right now. So, in theory the team could:

Keep JAG at salary this year
Franchise tag JAG after this upcoming season
Franchise, or transition, tag JAG after the following season

However, doing that, while keeping Brady, would require a hefty penny be paid out to the QB spot, and doing it that way would run counter to BB's historical approach.

 

[pazrul72]

As much as I love Tom Brady and have been behind him throughout the Brady era, we're talking about a 40 year old here. Once a player hits 40 you have to take him year by year. He might indeed have 5 years left in his career, but this franchise is only going to be finding that out 1 year at a time, and has to identify the benchmarks Brady has to meet to keep his job in each of those seasons.

Brady has earned the right to be the starting QB next year by winning the Superbowl. We'll see what he earns for the following year in his play next year. That's how you have to do it with older QB's. And keeping a guy in the wings who's ready to take over at a moment's notice is not an optional thing with a guy that old, especially in football.

I'm cool with trading Jimmy G, even though I think it'll bite us in the butt within the next 5 years, if the franchise then hits pay dirt with the replacement they draft. Since you can't guarantee that, and we're going to be taking Brady year by year for the rest of his Patriots career, I'm anxious about dealing a bird in the hand for 2 in the bush.

You are IMO getting way to hung up on a number. Yes TFB is going to be 40 this year and that is a scary number but I have some other scary numbers that balance it out. 28 TD's 2 interceptions in 12 games are elite all time GOAT production. I have been saying for 4 years now we probably have 2 more years of elite top 5 QB play from Brady. I have been wrong. I keep watching for that interception where the ball just doesn't have the zip on it to get where Brady wanted it. I keep watching for him to get up slow because that hit hurt worse then usual. I keep watching for the hey why did that mistake happen look because Brady's mind is starting to go.

My conclussions from all this watching is TFB is a scary man because he is getting BETTER! Your points would all have merit if there was one iota of decline in Brady's play. There isn't and so I choose to believe he has at least 3 years left of elite top 5 in the NFL play left in him and honestly 5 more years would not shock me. Plus let's be honest I bet Tom could give top 20 play until he was 60 just getting people in the right play and calling the right protections.

I love Grop, think he is going to be a top 10ish QB in this league. That 3rd and forever throw against the cardinals was as big boy a throw as you are going to see in the league. Nothing would make me happier then having him after Brady leaves. The problem is the timing just does not work out because Brady is better next year, and probably will be better for the next 2-3 years and that is no knock on Grop. There is no way Grop wants to be a back up for another 4 years he has earned and deserves the right to start somewhere. I would quite frankly be concerned if he was willing to be a back up anymore. The timing for a trade does not get better then this year. One more cheap year on his contract, ****ty QB class in the draft, and nothing but old injury prone question marks via trade, with at least 3 teams NEEDING a franchise QB. Somebody is gonna pony up at least a top 15 pick and if they don't? We have the best back up in the league for another cheap year and I am 100% ok with that.

The reg season Houston game this year should give you some idea of what a Brady less team is going to look like going forward. Briskit is a TOTALLY different type of QB and they had to change their offense on the fly to suit his strengths and weaknesses. Yet they did it in grand fashion. Sure QB is the most important position but it's not the only one and plenty of teams have won super bowls without the GOAT running the team. I could deal with Brady getting hurt to the point he retires next year if that means Bill will still be coaching thru the transition. I think the bigger loss if no plan is in place is Billicheck coaching. I hope, but don't expect, one of Patricia or McDaniels hangs around long enough to assume the mantle because of they do, while this level of success will never be achived again, I see the pats long term being one of those stable franchises that is in it on an almost yearly basis. Think Pittsburg Denver green bay yeah not always winning it but every once in awhile having everything go right from being in contention most years.

 

[Wax Frog]

I also know, however, that every team in NFL history falls off at some point, and I understand that you might as well get the most out of your best run, because when it's over, it's over.

Just ask Dallas, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Oakland, Green Bay, Miami and San Francisco.

And there's the mic-drop statement in the whole conversation. JG may well prove to be consistently lights-out great, but TB is a once-in-a-generation type player, and you don't let go of those lightly.

 

[Simpelton]

It may just be my personality. I have a tendency to leap to conclusions and want to get things over with. I don't like endings and I'd honestly rather get them over with rather than spending years anticipating them.

And there's the mic-drop statement in the whole conversation. JG maywell prove to be consistently lights-out great, but TB is a once-in-a-generation type player, and you don't let go of those lightly.

Completely agree about that. Neither way you draw this line should involve a decision being made "lightly."

But I'm sure that BB has already had that conversation and has a very-much-not-lightly-arrived-at set of benchmarks that would cause him to make the call and move to the new era of Patriots football.

All I know is that that time is not quite yet, but soon, within the next 1-3 years. And before we trade a guy who looks like a great potential replacement, all options should be weighted properly and if we choose to trade Jimmy G and play out the Tom Brady string to the end, it's with the knowledge that there's plenty of inherent risk in either decision and with an airtight plan of how to get the franchise to the new era when necessary, without Jimmy G.

 

[Wax Frog]

It may just be my personality. I have a tendency to leap to conclusions and want to get things over with. I don't like endings and I'd honestly rather get them over with rather than spending years anticipating them.

I hate endings too, in fact that is a major life issue for me. But TB (and BB) have done more than give me a successful team to root for - they've given me something transcendent. Having followed this team and shared its ups and downs since '86, there was a time when I thought seeing one Patriots title in my life would be amazing. Then another came, and another.

Here I stand 30 years later with my jaw permanently fused to the ground and the fan part of my soul in the clouds. TB has given me far, far more than I could have ever reasonably asked. In a sense I almost feel I owe it to him to see the last page of the story written as much on his terms as possible, and I will feel blessed beyond words right up to his very last snap. I will always be a Patriots fan, but never again will I be the Pats worrier I once was. The team I chose to back all those years ago, to my great amazement and joy, now stands among the legends.

Through all the years of Patriots mediocrity that may follow, I will have a shining jewel to shift my gaze towards right up to my last breath, one that most fans will never have... and the story is STILL being written!

Wow.

 

[pdangle]

Originally I was in the hold JG until contract expires as Brady insurance camp. Another year of evaluation, quality backup in case injury strikes, and could still flip JG for a less than spectacular compensation (via tag and trade, or just a quick flip for picks and sign risk) if you decide to at the end.

But wow, has that since changed. The stars are now aligned to possibly allow NE to net a MASSIVE haul for JG.

1. Two game forced audition, JG kills it. Scouts across the league perk up
2. Brady show no decline
3. NE wins SB
4. QBs a very weak draft class
5. Multiple teams need QBs (with draft capital AND fan expectations)

Everything to me is pointing to a big haul for JG. NE can play it so many ways, and there is no pressure to trade. It's all on whoever wants him, to blow NE away with an offer. And hope it doesn't get topped.

So to me, that's why NE trades JG this off-season. The return will be too good to pass up. It'll dwarf the worries about TB's longevity, or JG's all-pro-in-waiting readiness.

 

[IllegalContact]

there is no reason to trade Garoppolo this year ..... well, except if someone shows up with multiple high picks including at least a 1st and a 2nd

Brissett will never be as good as Garoppolo ... without JG, there is zero after Brady

 

[Simpelton]

I look at Brissett and see a slightly faster version of Matt Cassell. Talented enough to be a journeyman average-to-mediocre quarterback with a roughly even record. That's not nothing, but if you're winning Superbowls, it's not going to be because of that guy.

I actually think Brissett would do as a place-holder, a guy to occupy the job while they find the real guy if you know what I mean. I'd rather have the QBOTF in the wings being trained by the GOAT though. If that doesn't work out and we're using a placeholder QB for a few seasons, I'm cool with it, as long as it doesn't go on too long

 

[zydecochris]

He's in the final year of his deal right now. So, in theory the team could:

Keep JAG at salary this year
Franchise tag JAG after this upcoming season
Franchise, or transition, tag JAG after the following season

However, doing that, while keeping Brady, would require a hefty penny be paid out to the QB spot, and doing it that way would run counter to BB's historical approach.

You are right that investing a bunch of money in the QB spot would be counter to BB's normal approach, but I would respectfully argue that there is no historical precedent to the current situation: The best QB of all time still playing at a peak level but about to turn 40, with a very promising young QB in the wings. The "closest" situations with Montana / Young and Favre / Rodgers really were not similar in that both Montana (mostly due to injury) and Favre had significantly declined from their peak, unlike Brady. Plus, Brady's training regime and care for his body is so unprecedented he might really do something that no other QB has ever done and remain at a peak level into his 40's. But the fact is that nobody really knows if that will be the case.

I would be very surprised if the Pats trade JAG this year, having a QB as promising as JAG is just too valuable, especially if Brady suddenly becomes more injury prone in his 40's like normal humans do (of course, he is not normal in any way). I don't think it is a foregone conclusion that BB wouldn't tag him the following year. It isn't BB's usual way of doing things, but this is not a usual situation in any way.

 

[Pats1989]

The thought of TB finishing his career in a different uniform is scary. Hope the day doesn't come where TB thinks he can still play....yet the Pats don't. Obviously a hypothetical.

 

[Simpelton]

The thought of TB finishing his career in a different uniform is scary. Hope the day doesn't come where TB thinks he can still play....yet the Pats don't. Obviously a hypothetical.

I think we as fans need to be prepared for that possibility. If Brady struggles next year, or is hurt, and we keep Apollo, it could happen sooner than we think. After all -- how did TB12 get the job? Took it from a very good all pro QB and rendered him irrelevant.

 

[Pats1989]

I think we as fans need to be prepared for that possibility. If Brady struggles next year, or is hurt, and we keep Apollo, it could happen sooner than we think. After all -- how did TB12 get the job? Took it from a very good all pro QB and rendered him irrelevant.

Than BB & Kraft ( No way Bob doesn't have an influence in a situation like this) have a tough decision.

Patriots will look at the short ( TB getting SB 6 and possibly 7) & long ( Jimmy G) term future. I trust them.

 

[Simpelton]

I do too, they've more than earned our trust in these matters and I'll support it whatever decision they make -- but the speculation and discussion is still fun.

 

[fightingirish595]

Jimmy is clearly better than any qb coming out. Jimmy will get us a top 20 pick

 

[Deus Irae]

You are right that investing a bunch of money in the QB spot would be counter to BB's normal approach, but I would respectfully argue that there is no historical precedent to the current situation: The best QB of all time still playing at a peak level but about to turn 40, with a very promising young QB in the wings. The "closest" situations with Montana / Young and Favre / Rodgers really were not similar in that both Montana (mostly due to injury) and Favre had significantly declined from their peak, unlike Brady. Plus, Brady's training regime and care for his body is so unprecedented he might really do something that no other QB has ever done and remain at a peak level into his 40's. But the fact is that nobody really knows if that will be the case.

I would be very surprised if the Pats trade JAG this year, having a QB as promising as JAG is just too valuable, especially if Brady suddenly becomes more injury prone in his 40's like normal humans do (of course, he is not normal in any way). I don't think it is a foregone conclusion that BB wouldn't tag him the following year. It isn't BB's usual way of doing things, but this is not a usual situation in any way.

Montana was still better than Young, but he couldn't stay healthy. Brady's been healthier than JAG.
Favre's last year in Green Bay was an NFCCG loss after an excellent season, personally, for Favre. But Favre was playing "will he/won't he" and isolating himself more and more.

There are really 3 questions to be asked regarding the Patriots QB situation:

Is JAG another Young (almost certainly not), or at least a guy who can keep the team in yearly competition (more likely)?
What do they think of Brissett, and will he be at legit backup level this season?
Are there signs that Brady's in decline, even though the outsider can't see them?

Those are the questions that BB needs to ask. The answers will lead, logically, to the appropriate actions, none of which are "Trade Brady".

 

[pazrul72]

I look at Brissett and see a slightly faster version of Matt Cassell. Talented enough to be a journeyman average-to-mediocre quarterback with a roughly even record. That's not nothing, but if you're winning Superbowls, it's not going to be because of that guy.

I actually think Brissett would do as a place-holder, a guy to occupy the job while they find the real guy if you know what I mean. I'd rather have the QBOTF in the wings being trained by the GOAT though. If that doesn't work out and we're using a placeholder QB for a few seasons, I'm cool with it, as long as it doesn't go on too long

You see cassell I see big Ben. Tall strong and while not a "running QB" has enough wiggle to extend plays and be dangerous. Different from what we are used to for sure but look at his team mates after houston, they love him, and what he did for Floyd. He has the intangibles You long for in your starting QB and IF he puts in the work, and that is a huge if but he sounds like the right type, to read defenses and make right reads.....plenty good enough to win with.

 

[The Gr8est]

I look at Brissett and see a slightly faster version of Matt Cassell. Talented enough to be a journeyman average-to-mediocre quarterback with a roughly even record. That's not nothing, but if you're winning Superbowls, it's not going to be because of that guy.

I actually think Brissett would do as a place-holder, a guy to occupy the job while they find the real guy if you know what I mean. I'd rather have the QBOTF in the wings being trained by the GOAT though. If that doesn't work out and we're using a placeholder QB for a few seasons, I'm cool with it, as long as it doesn't go on too long

I think you are being unfair to Brissett, by comparing a guy one year out if college, who came recommended by Bill Parcells and Charlie Weis, to a guy drafted in the 7th round, who was a career college backup and who hadn't played a game since high school.

Brissett was thrown into the fire in the 3rd game and led the Pats to a shutout win over Houston, despite injuring his throwing hand. He lost the next game vs the Bills, but went on IR right after the game with an injured thumb on his throwing hand.

He may not become anything special but he is more impressive, at this stage, than Cassell was, and he shows some promising traits, like composure, elusiveness and scrambling ability, along with a very strong arm.

The Pats obviously wanted to keep him developing since they used their one IR return move on him. He shows gr8 intangibles as, like Jimmy, the veterans seem to like him, and he did yeoman work getting Floyd up to speed in a short time.

 

[Simpelton]

A comparison of Brissett to Roethlisberger is pretty high praise indeed. Big Ben is an excellent quarterback, not all time elite, but the next tier down, and definitely someone you can win a Superbowl with, QED. You're certainly more optimistic about him than I am. Since he may wind up taking a few starts for us if something happens to TB12, I really hope you're right.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I'm not comfortable trading him. Mostly because I don't think Brisset is an NFL QB ( In case TB was injured).

Brisset is NOT READY to step in if needed in 2017, and maybe 2018, as the Pats seek their 6th Lombardi. From a talent standpoint he has a strong but not very accurate arm. His release is ponderous, and long, and I don't think his pass is very catchable when not accurate. Still I think he will be an above average BACKUP QB, eventually.

Garoppolo on the other hand, has that certain intangible but real, leadership talent, follow me attitude, that player's want to play for. It is a real talent that the military explicitly looks for in its officers.

He has a lightening fast release, approaching Marino. His accuracy is well above average, but not equal to Brady's short to intermediate accuracy; but then no one else does either. Still it is franchise quality accuracy.

Reality, is that there are not a lot of, and enough of, franchise QBs to go around. They are valuable enough to have high value, no matter the contract that he is signed to by his team. The Pats have him for two more years, including a franchise year, and the CAP room to keep him. You keep franchise QBs when you have them. Besides what glaring hole to the Pats absolutely have to fill, except backup QB if they were to trade him? Answer ZERO!

BB wants to have a deep team while seeking their 6th Lombardi. Brady and Polo do provide that, at that most critical position to have depth during the next two years.

 

[AzPatsFan]

How do we know JG will play at an elite level? We don't. We have two games.

Bottom line for me is that Brady is a proven winner and I want to ride that Brady chain until it ends which may be a couple of super bowls.

I do understand those that want JG to stay because he did look good. But for me personally I'm staying with the winning hand.

They can keep BOTH for two years. Why would you not do it?