Why did it take 10 years to win more SuperBowls?

[Simpelton]

To me the question now is, do we end up looking back in 2020 and say this decades' team was better than 2000-2010? I think there will be a shot this is the case.

I'm not convinced that's a pertinent question at all. The 2 rings he's already won in his declining years accomplished what I think is their real purpose, to prove that TB12 can win it all without random flukes occurring in his favor. Especially this last affair with TB12 literally putting an entire football franchise on his back on a day when the defense coughed up 21 points and he'd coughed up another 7 itself with a pick-six, the running game was nonexistent, and he was without his favorite target.

This year was about nailing down his legacy in the wake of the manufactured deflation scandal, and he did that. Now the only question remaining is, what more does Tom Brady have for us?

 

[mosslost]

1. Brady evolved as a QB. You saw in the 2014 season where we won SB XLIX, he started scrambling and running the ball more than ever before. Defenses gave him space and he took it if he couldn't find an open receiver. This paid off big time in this years Super Bowl as well, as his 15 year run at the time was a big momentum swing and our best run of the entire game up to that point. After drafting Jimmy Garopollo, who was praised coming out of the draft for his quick release.... Tom Brady's release got super fast. He started making decisions and releasing the ball so quick it's become hard for most edge rushers to get to him before he throws it. He also improved pre-snap and became more like Peyton Manning in this area. It's as if Brady is able to take the best parts of other QB's and add it to his repertoire. Brady is the best student of the game. It's amazing that such an old QB is still evolving and adding new things to his game.

2. Consistency at the Offensive and Defensive coordinator positions. We won 3 lombardi's with Romeo Crenel and Charlie Weis. After they left it took 10 years to win another Lombardi! We went through Mangini, Dom Capers, and Dean Pees at defensive coordinator. Josh McD and then Bill OBrien, then back to Josh McDaniels at Offensive coordinator. Finally there is stability and both of our coordinators are amongst the best in the NFL.

3. We have a defense again. After the 3 SB wins in the early 2000's, our defense was aging. We eventually lost key players like Seymour and Ty Law. Bruschi, Vrabel, Seau, Harrison, all got old and retired. The next generation of defenders didn't carry the torch. Asante Samuel wanted too much money, Meriweather didn't pan out, and Jerod Mayo was good but not great. Finally we have a real defense again. Devin McCourty and Chung took a few years to find their groove but now their one of the top safety tandems in the league. Malcolm Butler came out of nowhere and is a top CB in the league. Hightower might go down as the best Patriots MLB ever if he sticks around. You really have to credit Belichick, Nick Caserio, and the rest of the front office for the bargain bin finds they've picked up.... Alan Branch. Akeem Ayers. Kyle Van Noy. Chris Long. Eric Rowe. Matt Patricia has obviously been a big reason for our defensive improvement.

4. Rebuilding takes time. Most won't admit that we went through a rebuilding phase, but we definitely did. You look at the 2009 to 2013 draft classes. Almost ALL of those players that stuck with the team took a few years to develop. Edelman certainly wasn't this good during his first few years in the league. He kept getting injured, made mistakes, and had to gain a lot of muscle. 2014 was really his break out season. Chung was drafted in 2009, got labeled a bust, went to another team, came back as "camp fodder" in 2014 and that was really his break out season as well. McCourtey bounced around CB to Safety, then took some time to master his craft at Safety. Now he's one of the best in the league. Marcus Cannon was drafted in 2011 and looked like a bench warmer up until this season. In 2016 he was one of the best RT in the NFL and a huge reason Brady was kept upright this year. Logan Ryan and Duron Harmon were both drafted in 2013. Ryan in particular has had a lot of ups and downs, but he looks like he finally settled in this year. Those two Rutgers defensive backs solidified our secondary.

Players like Gronk and Hightower that come in and beast from Day 1 are the exception not the rule.

5. Brady got injured. 2008 and 2009 were wasted seasons due to Bradys knee injury. Obviously he came back in 2009 but I felt like it took him a whole season to really come back from that injury. If Brady's healthy those years, who knows what happens.

>>Rebuilding takes time

SB 42 was not a "rebuild". SB 42 was not part of any drought or anything either. And your point about the defense does not make sense either. The defense was excellent in SB 42, and good enough in SB 46. It was great imo in 51.. but just good enough in 49.

The reason it was ten years was just the bounce of the ball, breaks, lack of them etc. If Butler does not make a pick the 10 years becomes 12 years. etc.

 

[mosslost]

While I agree with your points, I think luck and health play as much factors. 2006 easily could've ended with a SB victory and same for the 07/11 losses.

The Patriots could have won multiple SBs during those ten years, and likely should have lost both 49 and 51. The OP makes no sense.

 

[jri37]

Super Bowls are difficult to win regardless whether you have the GHCOAT and the GQBOAT. There's a reason there hasn't been back to back SB winners since 03/04. Bottom line is winning is difficult in the NFL.

 

[Wheelman]

Injuries.

 

[mosslost]

Injuries.

Injuries did not play a part in the ten year drought, no. Injuries played a part in 2012,13,15
EDIT:I guess maybe Gronk's ankle in SB 46 but he did play.
2nd Edit: My bad... you are correct. 2012 and 2013 would be in that window.

 

[wizwor]

Because it's hard and 31 other teams want to win.

 

[wizwor]

Injuries did not play a part in the ten year drought, no. Injuries played a part in 2012,13,15

Well, Gronk was out this year. Other than TB12, is there a bigger injury?

 

[mosslost]

Well, Gronk was out this year. Other than TB12, is there a bigger injury?

We won this year???

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

The perfect parity league, as designed, would have each team winning every 32 years. Thus a 10-year "gap" with two heartbreaking SB losses and 3 other "final 4 trips" sprinkled in there hardly constitutes a drought. It's really hard. It's not the Patriots and 31 versions of the Jets, after all.

 

[BobDigital]

Well lets look at it year by year.

05' - Asking for a 3peat is a lot. Also injuries and a few players got old. Rodney Harrison got hurt, The absence of Law was felt more without him. McGinest started to look old sadly. Bruschi had a stroke that year and didn't look right the rest of the year. Colvin didn't work out. On offense Brown continued to decline and Watson didn't become the weapon we hoped he would. Dillon was a shell of his 2004 self. The Pats didn't have a ton of weapons on O and without a good D they couldn't do much.

06' - The defense got healthier this year and became very good again but the offense just had no weapons. BB didn't need to sign Branch but he needed to sign someone. This one I put on BB a bit to be honest. Bad GM call and it cost them with key drops in the AFCCG. If they signed Branch to a "bad contract" they win the super bowl this year no doubt in my mind. Even if not him they should have got someone but they got to use to Brady doing it with 2nd tier guys and forgot he can't do it all alone no matter how good the D is maybe?

07' - Just bad luck with injuries and other stuff at a bad time and a hot team. We all know this year. Helmet catch and just other stuff like Brady being hurt and the OL looking sluggish.

08'/09' - Lost years. Obviously without Brady you aren't winning it all. In 09' he wasn't that good compared to what he had been. It wasn't till 10' he started to look like his old self. However in 09' and such Moss didn't look as good and other guys started to get old so i don't know what that year would be with a healthy Brady.

10' - People forget this was a rebuild year. The defense from 07' was gone mostly and we were in full rebuild mode on both sides of the ball. Brady had a young Gronk/Hernandez that were not ready yet but showed potential and Branch was not what he use to be. Also i think Welker was dealing with an injury this year. So the O was incredible and it had much to do with Brady but the D wasn't so good.

11' - Should have won this year even with a so-so D but a few untimely things happened. People forgot Andre Carter was beasting this year and giving the Pats a great pass rush option they haven't seen since McGinest but he got hurt. I believe if he stays healthy they win. He was one of the top 10 defensive players that year IMO. Mark Anderson had a pretty good year on D too but Carter made him better and without Carter he was not as scary. If Carter stays healthy we win. Then the Welker drop killed us of course. People forget though as did I. On that last drive with 1 minute left the first pass Brady threw to Branch would have put the ball past the 50 but Branch dropped it (it was not an easy catch to be fair). Even on the last drive after the Welker drop if Branch makes that catch it makes a comeback possible.

12' - Defense was just not good enough and the Pats came out not ready to play vs a Baltimore team hungry for revenge.

13' - You expect Brady to win with those WRs? Me either.

14' - won. Culmination of 3 years of good drafting. Picking up Lafell who gave Brady more options and Revis/Browner. Also got super lucky finding Butler and Chung came back and suddenly just "got it".

15' - This one I blame on BB (like 06') a bit. You need to get home field. Don't go to Denver. Lost another super bowl here.

16' - won'

So in conclusion.

Probably could not win.

05, 09' 10' 12' 13' - Not good enough most likely. You won't be every year.

Could have won maybe/probably.

06' 15' - Questionable GM/Coach decisions. 11' 07' 08' - Injuries and bad luck.

IMO potentially 5 legit shots to win were left on the the table for various reasons and 4 between - 04'-14'. Namely 06' 07' 08 11'

 

[mosslost]

The perfect parity league, as designed, would have each team winning every 32 years. Thus a 10-year "gap" with two heartbreaking losses and other "final 4 trips" sprinkled in there hardly constitutes a drought. It's really hard. It's not the Patriots and 31 versions of the Jets, after all.

the concept of the "ten year" drought thing is false. Pats were basically just as good through most of it. All 7 SB they played in could have gone either way. During the "drought" they played in 2 SB and 3 other AFCCG. There was no drought of any kind. (they had a couple 10-6 years. 2005 and 2009)
EDIT: Another thing there were at least three or four years during the ten year stretch where they had a better team than 2001.

 

[mosslost]

Well lets look at it year by year.

05' - Asking for a 3peat is a lot. Also injuries and a few players got old. Rodney Harrison got hurt, The absence of Law was felt more without him. McGinest started to look old sadly. Bruschi had a stroke that year and didn't look right the rest of the year. Colvin didn't work out. On offense Brown continued to decline and Watson didn't become the weapon we hoped he would. Dillon was a shell of his 2004 self. The Pats didn't have a ton of weapons on O and without a good D they couldn't do much.

06' - The defense got healthier this year and became very good again but the offense just had no weapons. BB didn't need to sign Branch but he needed to sign someone. This one I put on BB a bit to be honest. Bad GM call and it cost them with key drops in the AFCCG. If they signed Branch to a "bad contract" they win the super bowl this year no doubt in my mind. Even if not him they should have got someone but they got to use to Brady doing it with 2nd tier guys and forgot he can't do it all alone no matter how good the D is maybe?

07' - Just bad luck with injuries and other stuff at a bad time and a hot team. We all know this year. Helmet catch and just other stuff like Brady being hurt and the OL looking sluggish.

08'/09' - Lost years. Obviously without Brady you aren't winning it all. In 09' he wasn't that good compared to what he had been. It wasn't till 10' he started to look like his old self.

10' - People forget this was a rebuild year. The defense from 07' was gone mostly and we were in full rebuild mode on both sides of the ball. Brady had a young Gronk/Hernandez that were not ready yet but showed potential and Branch was not what he use to be. Also i think Welker was dealing with an injury this year. So the O was incredible and it had much to do with Brady but the D wasn't so good.

11' - Should have won this year even with a so-so D but a few untimely things happened. People forgot Andre Carter was beasting this year and giving the Pats a great pass rush option they haven't seen since McGinest but he got hurt. I believe if he stays healthy they win. He was one of the top 10 defensive players that year IMO. Mark Anderson had a pretty good year on D too but Carter made him better and without Carter he was not as scary. If Carter stays healthy we win. Then the Welker drop killed us of course. People forget though as did I. On that last drive with 1 minute left the First pass Brady threw to Branch would have put the ball past the 50 but Branch dropped it (it was not an easy catch to be fair). Even on the last drive after the Welker drop if Branch makes that catch it makes a comeback possible.

12' - Defense was just not good enough and the Pats came out not ready to play vs a Baltimore team hungry for revenge.

13' - You expect Brady to win with those WRs? Me either.

14' - won. Culmination of 3 years of good drafting. Picking up Lafell who gave Brady more options and Revis/Browner. Also got super lucky finding Butler and Chung came back and suddenly just "got it".

15' - This one I blame on BB (like 06') a bit. You need to get home field. Don't go to Denver. Lost another super bowl here.

16' - won'

So in conclusion..

05, 08' 09' 10' 12' 13' - Not good enough most likely. You won't be every year.

06' 15' - Questionable GM decisions.

11' 07' - Injuries and bad luck.

IMO potentially 4 legit shots to win were left on the the table for various reasons and 3 between - 04'-14'. Namely 06' 07' 11'

>>10' - People forget this was a rebuild year. The defense from 07' was gone mostly and we were in full rebuild mode on both sides of the ball. Brady had a young Gronk/Hernandez that were not ready yet but showed potential and Branch was not what he use to be. Also i think Welker was dealing with an injury this year. So the O was incredible and it had much to do with Brady but the D wasn't so good.

True, but. No excuse this team did not make the SB and probably win it.

 

[mosslost]

Because the D got old and had to be replace. But due to their continued success (even though they didn't win the Super Bowl for 10 years) means that they consistently picked at the end of every draft round...and they didn't hit (or didn't draft) on some players. Plus you had coaching changes. Weiss and Romeo left. Then Pees and McDaniels left (McD came back). Hell, Dante left and came back too. You add all that up...plus the league changing rules to stymie your style of play lead to a 10 year drought.

it was just the bounce of the ball and only that

 

[BobDigital]

>>10' - People forget this was a rebuild year. The defense from 07' was gone mostly and we were in full rebuild mode on both sides of the ball. Brady had a young Gronk/Hernandez that were not ready yet but showed potential and Branch was not what he use to be. Also i think Welker was dealing with an injury this year. So the O was incredible and it had much to do with Brady but the D wasn't so good.

True, but. No excuse this team did not make the SB and probably win it.

Who did they have on D? BB did he thing but didn't have much.

Here is your starting D.



Front 7/8- Wilfork, Warren, Mayo, Nink, Guyton, Spikes, Cunningham, Banta-Cain
DBs 4/5 - Chung, McCourty, Arrington, Meriweather, Sanders.

No one can get after the QB there and even with all that beef were not great at stopping the run.

As far as DBs who in that group can cover? McCourty had a good rookie year but weaknesses in his game existed and Arrington is merely a role player in the slot not a true outside CB. Chung wasn't what he is now and Sander/Meriweather were not impressive.

The D just was not that good but BB made it work with his bend don't break but after Wilfork/Mayo (who don't stop the pass) the lack of talent here is fairly staggering.

 

[mosslost]

Brady has played like a man possessed since the Kansas City beatdown. I hate to oversimplify it because there are other factors at play here such as injury luck, playing better defense, and the luck of the bounce, but Tom Brady is on another level right now by his own lofty standards.

um 2007

 

[mosslost]

Who did they have on D? BB did he thing but didn't have much.

I never said they were a great D. But they should have smashed the Jets, beat the Steelers (for the second time that year, this time at home) then probably outscore the Packers.

 

[Nehalem]

The common argument a few years ago was BB was wasting TB's prime years- and while certainly there were disappointing ends in this time, and I think BB should have done what he ultimately did with Talib, Revis, Browner, i.e. bringing outside talent to bolster the secondary until young guys found their footing, earlier than he did, at the end of the day Brady continually evolving and getting better while the players around him cycled in and out was sort of a reflection of what happens when you're a long-lived anomaly amidst a team cycling through different generations.

He brought in Leigh Bodden in 2009. Then resigned him to 4y-22m contract in 2010. Unfortunately, Bodden hurt his shoulder prior to the 2010 season, and retired during the 2011 season.

Not hard to see how a healthy Bodden allows us to win the '11 Super Bowl. Or if one of the 2nd round corners Dowling, Darius Butler, or Wheatley worked out...

 

[Wrath Mania]

I'm not convinced that's a pertinent question at all. The 2 rings he's already won in his declining years accomplished what I think is their real purpose, to prove that TB12 can win it all without random flukes occurring in his favor. Especially this last affair with TB12 literally putting an entire football franchise on his back on a day when the defense coughed up 21 points and he'd coughed up another 7 itself with a pick-six, the running game was nonexistent, and he was without his favorite target.

This year was about nailing down his legacy in the wake of the manufactured deflation scandal, and he did that. Now the only question remaining is, what more does Tom Brady have for us?

I'm not talking about Tom Brady. I'm talking about the entire other cast around him that has been built. Tom played great last week but did he cause Hightower's strip sack? Did he save himself from a second INT on Edelman's circus catch? Let's not pretend the entire team is garbage save for Tom. This is a new generation around him that is building a legacy that may equal or surpass the McGinest, Law, Bruschi, Vrabel, etc... era. I find that interesting and want to see how it plays out.

 

[VectorPrime]

Bad luck.