In Retrospect, How Do You View The Collins Trade?

[BritPat]

Collins remains a very athletic player. Doesn't mean the same thing as good. There are plenty of athletic guys, but football requires more than just athletic ability.

Collins was a very good player, but he wasn't this year. And he certainly hasn't done anything in Cleveland to make me regret him leaving.

If Collins was on-board mentally, then sure, I would think the D isn't as good without him. But it's clear he wasn't, and at that point, he's as useful on the field as playing your 10th-string QB. He was a liability, a huge hole compromising the D, and all the athletic ability in the world doesn't make up for that.

I disagree. I appreciate the opinion though.

 

[BritPat]

As always, the team is greater than the sum of its parts. Collins was and is supremely talented but he seemed to regress this season and wasn't pulling in the same direction, for whatever reason.

I would have rather seen Patricia/BB get through to Collins and convince him the best approach for everyone involved - the team, Collins as a player, Collins as a professional - was for him to trust the coaching, work hard, keep his head down, 'do your job' type stuff, because this defense is better with an elite difference-maker like Collins. BUT, that obviously didn't happen, so the second best option is to cut your losses and the other LB's to fill in. Unfortunately for Collins, he's now languishing in the barren wasteland of Cleveland and he's probably lost millions in FA earnings because of it.

The team has recovered from a bit of a mid-season dip and I think the Collins trade (and Sheard inactive) were necessary actions to get to this point. I just wish it hadn't come to that, because Collins is immensely talented. But I'm happy with the way it's worked out because this defense is playing incredible and it seems everyone is on the same page and playing fantastic team defense.

Great post, sums it up almost perfectly for me.

 

[mosslost]

I don't know yet. First, let's see how far the Pats go in the playoffs and if not having Collins hurt or helped them. Second, let's see where in the third round they'll be picking and who they pick. Third, let's see where Collins ends up next year and what his production is.

True, I won't like it if Collins gets his act together and becomes a long term beast on the Colts or Steelers or Denver.

 

[mosslost]

You either do it my way or it's the highway..... BB

That is why BB is a HOF Coach...

He is paid to make the tough decisions.....

A lot of key players up for contracts in next year or two. BB planning for the present AND the future.....

I think most coaches only thinking about the NOW.......

BB has already secured his future as a Patriot coach.....

>>BB has already secured his future as a Patriot coach.....

ya think?

 

[mosslost]

A pick in exchange for 8 games sounds good, the thing is a player of his caliber can make a decisive play on the SB and we are in a SB run, so the people complaining always argued about this kind of thing not the 8 regular season games he wouldn't make a huge difference against terrible NFL teams.

The jury is still out because we don't know and we will never know what kind of difference he would make in a playoff game. Remember that sack + forced fumble + recovery against Joe Flacco in 2014 that was nullified because of a Revis holding? That kind of play only a freak like him can deliver and it was a game changing play, if not by the holding the game would not came down to the wire.

he sucked in coverage on two noodle arm Manning TDs in the AFCCG last year.

 

[mosslost]

I disliked it then and I still dislike it now.

Collins was and remains a very good player.

The biggest test for the defense is still to come.

Collins sucks

 

[mosslost]

I see no choice but to defer to BB's judgment on this move. BUT, Collins was a play maker who was a force when on his game, and those kinds of players can be difference makers in the playoffs. I just hope this defense doesn't wilt under pressure in the playoffs.

Collins sucked in AFCCG last year.

 

[mosslost]

Collins led the defense in both games with eight tackles each time. Against Denver he had two sacks and three tackles for losses.

he sucked

 

[Brandon_Cox]

I just had a colonoscopy. The doctor burned off a couple of polyps before they could turn cancerous. Now I'm healthier than ever. Same thing with the Collins trade.

 

[mosslost]

I wonder how much this had to do with BB trading Collins.



October 22nd Collins has a new hairstyle.
You've got to see Jamie Collins' new haircut

October 31st Collins is traded
Patriots trade linebacker Jamie Collins to Browns - Sportsnet.ca










Has anyone made this connection before? Let's face it, BB is old school and values team above individual. The Patriot Way is about the team as a whole, NOT individuals. All Patriots who have stayed on the team a long time have been clean cut and humble.


Although the Pats were probably already thinking about parting ways with Collins after the season, his wacky haircut looks like it was the last straw. As minor as it may seem, Collins wacky haircut looks like it was the last straw. may have been seen as sign of wanting attention, me-first, trying to stick out and be a personality, an act of rebellion and individuality.


Is it a coincidence that he got traded a week later? I know it was right before the trade deadline but the trade seemed very abrupt. No rumors or leaks, and basically we took whatever we could get for him. He was probably worth more than a 3rd but its hard to get that when you're quickly trying to offload someone.

You're actually serious? Um no. Willie used to have the coolest Dreads in 2001, I'm pretty sure BB only cares whether you are doing your job and better than your replacement can.

 

[NormZauchin]

In light of the Vikings/Zimmer fiasco it was necessary.

While reading about the Zimmer and Terence Newman controversy, I was thinking "How fast would Newman find himself in Cleveland if he played for Belichick. Next day? By the end of the game? By halftime?"

 

[NormZauchin]

I just had a colonoscopy. The doctor burned off a couple of polyps before they could turn cancerous. Now I'm healthier than ever. Same thing with the Collins trade.

So..... Are you saying that Belichick is sort of the proctologist of the NFL?

 

[rochrist]

I don't know yet. First, let's see how far the Pats go in the playoffs and if not having Collins hurt or helped them. Second, let's see where in the third round they'll be picking and who they pick. Third, let's see where Collins ends up next year and what his production is.

How are you going to tell whether it helped them or hurt them? If an aging TE doesn't beat them for two TDs then it's a net positive.

 

[Wax Frog]

There is no spoon...

Dion Lewis can move like They do. Could he be the One?

 

[patfanken]

Whenever a player leaves a team a mythos arises that he sucked in the first place. So here is the thing. Jamie Collins wasn't having a good year during his contract season with the Pats. It was clear he was at an impass with his coaches and he was ready to move on from the Pats. I've mentioned a couple of times over the last 2 years that I was worried Collins didn't like living in NE most of the year. But it went further than that, and included working within the scheme as well.

So THIS season he had only one monster game (Houston), and was seeing his snap count diminish as guys like McClellin, Roberts and Van Noy took snaps from him in various situations. So when BB thought he could get something more than the HOPE they could get a compt 3 pick NEXT year, and wind up getting the an actual comp pick THIS year, he took it.

It'w my belief that BB heard, from his captains, that Collins' dissatisfaction with the coaches had grown audible in the locker room. Now sometimes this isn't much of an issue, but Collins was a quite well liked guy, and good friends with Hightower. So even though by that time, both sides knew that this was going to be his last season, BB worried that the lock room situation would fester. AND if you recall, it during those weeks just before Jamie was trade, that some of us were complaining that the defense didn't seem to have much enthusiasm even after good plays.

Since Collins has been gone the defensive excitement has reached almost a fevor pitch these last 2 weeks. They now seem like they are playing each game with literal joy. Even Hightower has commented on it. It can't be a coincidence.

All that being said, it would be a mistake to say Collins is a bad player. He had great seasons in 2014 and 2015. Sure we can point out individual plays, but the totality of those seasons were highly positive. This year....not so much and he was gone. And it was the right thing to do, though I'm sorry it didn't work out. I'm fairly certain that if hooks up with the right defensive system, he can have a great career. If he just chases the money, then it's anyone's guess.

 

[zoostation]

As always, the team is greater than the sum of its parts. Collins was and is supremely talented but he seemed to regress this season and wasn't pulling in the same direction, for whatever reason.

I would have rather seen Patricia/BB get through to Collins and convince him the best approach for everyone involved - the team, Collins as a player, Collins as a professional - was for him to trust the coaching, work hard, keep his head down, 'do your job' type stuff, because this defense is better with an elite difference-maker like Collins. BUT, that obviously didn't happen, so the second best option is to cut your losses and the other LB's to fill in. Unfortunately for Collins, he's now languishing in the barren wasteland of Cleveland and he's probably lost millions in FA earnings because of it.

The team has recovered from a bit of a mid-season dip and I think the Collins trade (and Sheard inactive) were necessary actions to get to this point. I just wish it hadn't come to that, because Collins is immensely talented. But I'm happy with the way it's worked out because this defense is playing incredible and it seems everyone is on the same page and playing fantastic team defense.

^^ Without doubt the events above are why you unload a defensive stud for a bag of footballs. In training camp, the ship was on track to miss the iceberg by 2 miles. After couple of no show games (with the exception of the Texans game in front of former mentor Vince Wilfork) Jamie was on the bench in non passing downs. This is typically when a mature player takes the hint and does everything it takes to get back onto the field (I am confident calling him immature as a friend of mine worked to help him with school related tasks at Southern Miss. Trust me, immature is an extremely nice choice of words going by the stories she told me). With JC a free agent and not happy with the demotion he "nudged" the ships wheel closer and closer to the iceberg on the horizon. Worse than that, some of the younger players were already making their way to the lifeboats (maybe without realizing).

Anyway, this is starting to turn into a novel. Bottom line, the move had to be done (see Adalus Thomas 2009). The defense is playing better than it ever would have with JC freelancing. It's now a defense playing as a team and that means they can be coached as a unit. I've been preaching this scenario (not with Titanic references) to my son for 6 weeks now. I explain to him that us fans and the kids at his school know about 5% of the facts. I assure him BB didn't wake up and take a stupid pill. He would rather have 3 less physically talented players who are on board with the system. Any compensation is all bonus as Jamie was never going to buy in to the system under the current situation.

 

[rookBoston]

Losing Collins seemed to disrupt the team midseason, and I remember thinking that it would have been great to have him on the field during the Seattle loss at home. Maybe the discontinuity on D cost us that game, who can say?

But unquestionably the team has rallied since, the players and coaches have stepped up to fill any gap. It's the Patriots Way. I'm no longer surprised when this stuff works out for the best. Perhaps, they're mentally stronger now than they would have been with Collins on the roster. Again, who can say?

Flowers has been great in a Jones role, and Van Noy has been admirable in the Collins spot. Even losing AJ Derby seems just fine, now, after seeing Lengel pull in that TD pass against the Jets and comprehending everything that goes into making that play happen. In the same way, losing Revis and Browner has not caused irreparable harm to the franchise, and losing Gronkowski to IR hasn't ended our season either.

I'm really getting used to the idea that the collective team matters more than star power, that coaching can compensate for gaps in raw talent, that our scouts regularly find more-than-serviceable players walking the street, and that BB has a really good intuition for trade value.

Casting forward, it makes me comfortable with the Hightower, Butler, Bennett and Garoppolo contract situations, however they finally work out. And it even makes me okay with the idea that McDaniels and Patricia might both be gone next year.

The whole situation is pretty amazing actually. It's why BB is the GOAT. The entire operation just seems bulletproof, top to bottom, many layers deep; the product of his mind, and he just really knows what he's doing. Amazing, really amazing.

 

[Ring 6]

Good post but I'm curious how you think losing collins seemed to disrupt the team. They didn't miss a beat. It disrupted the media and fans is all.

 

[amazinPats]

If all those with supreme talent are easily coached and can be motivated then draft picking would be easy. Not all gifts, mental, physical, emotional, spiritual are doled out in even proportions. What makes BB so great is he has the confidence to make tough decisions regarding cutting and signing players. He did the right thing with Collins (as usual.)

 

[rookBoston]

Good post but I'm curious how you think losing collins seemed to disrupt the team. They didn't miss a beat. It disrupted the media and fans is all.

Well, there was some astonishment expressed by some players -- an unexpected trade like that can't help but be a surprise. Malcolm Butler on the reaction in the locker room: "It was shocked, that's all. Shocked".

And then, more materially, the Seattle loss which is a clear outlier on the season. The Pats gave up 31 points at home in their next game, which is the most they gave up all season. By all appearance, the next man up at LB wasn't quite ready that week.