Dion Lewis Update

[nabwong]

Just reading the last couple of pages, you'd never know this thread is about Dion Lewis. LOL.

 

[FourierSeries]

The Pats have played a bunch of bad QBs. That's why the PPG is as low as it is, and it's not an adequate reflection of how well the defense has been playing. But don't take my word for it, take Mike Lombardi's. Earlier today, Belichick said that Mike is one of the smartest guys he knows, and he's spent the last two months stressing how badly the defense has been playing. Or look at Belichick himself: do you really think he trades Collins halfway through the season if he thinks the defense is playing and that a major change isn't needed?

Cool. I guess our offense sucks too because Bill said the team needs to pass and run the ball better than it did after Sunday (when they put up 41 points.)

It's like some of you are watching the team for the first time ever and are unaware of the fact that Bill is tougher on the team after they win in order to prevent complacency. He's constantly trying to make the team better. You literally hear the exact same thing every year, regardless of how many teams NE has obliterated in the first half of the season.

There are areas of improvement on both sides of the ball, as is the case with every team every year. As long as that's the case, you won't ever hear Bill be satisfied.

The defense isn't the 85 Bears, nor does it need to be. It's good enough to make NE by far the most complete team in the league, however.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Just reading the last couple of pages, you'd never know this thread is about Dion Lewis. LOL.

Wait..this is a Lewis thread?

 

[JMC00]

Has New England had easier offenses compared the Hawks and Vikings? Not being facetious. Just curious to know how well we are compared to the kind of competition we've faced.

Aside from Week 3 vs. Houston, our Defense doesn't seem to play with much swagger - not compared to Seattle at least.

Swagger? Really?

Here's the offenses Seattle has swagged" over

Miami
LA
SF
Jests

Gave up 24 to the Falcons

Held Arizona to 6 but Arizona put up 450 yards of offense

So if people are gonna sit there and say who have the Pats played, well who have the Seahawks played? Other than Atlanta

 

[JMC00]

The Pats have played a bunch of bad QBs. That's why the PPG is as low as it is, and it's not an adequate reflection of how well the defense has been playing. But don't take my word for it, take Mike Lombardi's. Earlier today, Belichick said that Mike is one of the smartest guys he knows, and he's spent the last two months stressing how badly the defense has been playing.

Here are the common opponents the Pats defense and Denver's MEGA ULTRA ELITE DEFENSE have had

Houston and Cincinnati

Now let's look at how the defenses played those offenses

NE defense vs Houston
0 Points Allowed
284 yards allowed
40% 3rd down

Denver defense vs Houston
9 points allowed
271 yards allowed
39% 3rd down


Pats were coming off 3 days rest
Denver was coming off 11 days rest


NE defense vs Cincinnati
17 points allowed
355 yards allowed
41% 3rd down

Denver defense vs Cincinnati
17 points allowed
330 yards allowed
41% 3rd down

So what's the spin gonna be on the fact that against common opponents the Pats defense has played as well as Denver's?

do you really think he trades Collins halfway through the season if he thinks the defense is playing and that a major change isn't needed?

Absolutely asinine to think Belichick traded Collins because how the defense was playing. Collins was traded because Collins wasn't buying in anymore and it had become a problem. If he was still buying in he'd still be with the team.

 

[JMC00]

Cool. I guess our offense sucks too because Bill said the team needs to pass and run the ball better than it did after Sunday (when they put up 41 points.)

It's funny how people continue to think people are saying it's a great defense when we bring up PPG Allowed. But it's certainly not as bad as some people are making them out to be. Kept hearing how they gave up 25 to the bills. It was f**king 10 points if the refs call 2 blatant things correctly.

Then there was the they made Landry Jones look All Pro **** that was getting spewed. Guy had 2 good passes in the game, 1 to Brown that he took 50 yards and the TD pass. Other than he threw for 216 yards and had a 4.6 yards per attempt average. Which would be the lowest in the league 1.1 yards per lower than #32.

 

[mosi]

Here are the common opponents the Pats defense and Denver's MEGA ULTRA ELITE DEFENSE have had

Houston and Cincinnati

Now let's look at how the defenses played those offenses

NE defense vs Houston
0 Points Allowed
284 yards allowed
40% 3rd down

Denver defense vs Houston
9 points allowed
271 yards allowed
39% 3rd down


Pats were coming off 3 days rest
Denver was coming off 11 days rest


NE defense vs Cincinnati
17 points allowed
355 yards allowed
41% 3rd down

Denver defense vs Cincinnati
17 points allowed
330 yards allowed
41% 3rd down

So what's the spin gonna be on the fact that against common opponents the Pats defense has played as well as Denver's?



Absolutely asinine to think Belichick traded Collins because how the defense was playing. Collins was traded because Collins wasn't buying in anymore and it had become a problem. If he was still buying in he'd still be with the team.

Nice stats. And in my time watching Denver games, their Rush D is not nearly as good as it has been. So far, there is no one team that has everything down 100%.

But if you look at the NFL as a whole this year, the Pats look to be head and shoulders better than anyone. Dallas looks good as well but it is hard to have faith in a rookie QB over the entire season.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Cool. I guess our offense sucks too because Bill said the team needs to pass and run the ball better than it did after Sunday (when they put up 41 points.)

It's like some of you are watching the team for the first time ever and are unaware of the fact that Bill is tougher on the team after they win in order to prevent complacency. He's constantly trying to make the team better. You literally hear the exact same thing every year, regardless of how many teams NE has obliterated in the first half of the season.

There are areas of improvement on both sides of the ball, as is the case with every team every year. As long as that's the case, you won't ever hear Bill be satisfied.

The defense isn't the 85 Bears, nor does it need to be. It's good enough to make NE by far the most complete team in the league, however.

If you're going to try to equate trading a second team All Pro midseason with saying they need to play better, then there's just no reasoning with you, plain and simple. If you think there's any equivalence at all between the examples I gave and some random offhand statement offered in a postgame PC, then you're not even trying to make any sense. If you'd been around 6 years ago, I'm positive you would've had it out for anyone who dared to suggest that the 2009 team wasn't especially good too. There's no conversation to be had here because the next flaw you acknowledge on this team will be the first one.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Here are the common opponents the Pats defense and Denver's MEGA ULTRA ELITE DEFENSE have had

Houston and Cincinnati

Now let's look at how the defenses played those offenses

NE defense vs Houston
0 Points Allowed
284 yards allowed
40% 3rd down

Denver defense vs Houston
9 points allowed
271 yards allowed
39% 3rd down


Pats were coming off 3 days rest
Denver was coming off 11 days rest


NE defense vs Cincinnati
17 points allowed
355 yards allowed
41% 3rd down

Denver defense vs Cincinnati
17 points allowed
330 yards allowed
41% 3rd down

So what's the spin gonna be on the fact that against common opponents the Pats defense has played as well as Denver's?



Absolutely asinine to think Belichick traded Collins because how the defense was playing. Collins was traded because Collins wasn't buying in anymore and it had become a problem. If he was still buying in he'd still be with the team.

Here's a stat for you: the Pats' defense is 18th in DVOA. Yet for some reason you get eye-rollingly offended when someone has the audacity to state that the defense is average.

 

[FourierSeries]

If you're going to try to equate trading a second team All Pro midseason with saying they need to play better, then there's just no reasoning with you, plain and simple. There's no conversation to be had here because the next flaw you acknowledge on this team will be the first one.

You'd have a point if the team acquired an All-Pro midseason instead, to help the defense. They didn't - they let one go without replacing him. They must be content with the guys that they have.

Collins was traded because they know they wouldn't be able to afford him and because he hasn't played well this year. The defense gave up fewer pass/rushing yards per attempt with him off the field.

 

[BradyFTW!]

You'd have a point if the team acquired an All-Pro, or anyone for that matter, midseason instead, to help the defense. They didn't. They must be content with the guys that they have.

Collins was traded because they know they wouldn't be able to afford him and because he hasn't played well this year. The defense gave up fewer pass/rushing yards per attempt with him off the field.

Yeah, that's kinda the point - one of the centerpieces of the defense, aka one of the guys who made the defense as good as it was the past couple of years - was unable to produce to the point that they traded him. This--and Jones being gone--is the primary reason why the D is 18th in DVOA, which makes it average by any sensible definition.

No matter how far you dig to try to find stats that say otherwise, or what mental gymnastics you do to claim that it's an upper-tier unit, the facts just don't support that argument. Over the first half of the season this defense has been average: the stats say it, the eye test says it, the only guy affiliated with the Patriots organization who's talking openly says it... pretty much everyone but the blindest of homers is able to see and acknowledge it. Frankly, if you're still going to bat so hard against such a simple, inoffensive fact as that, then it just speaks to a basic inability/unwillingness to acknowledge that the team could have actual shortcomings.

 

[FourierSeries]

Yeah, that's kinda the point - one of the centerpieces of the defense, aka one of the guys who made the defense as good as it was the past couple of years - was unable to produce to the point that they traded him. This--and Jones being gone--is the primary reason why the D is 18th in DVOA, which makes it average by any sensible definition.

No matter how far you dig to try to find stats that say otherwise, or what mental gymnastics you do to claim that it's an upper-tier unit, the facts just don't support that argument. Over the first half of the season this defense has been average: the stats say it, the eye test says it, the only guy affiliated with the Patriots organization who's talking openly says it... pretty much everyone but the blindest of homers is able to see and acknowledge it. Frankly, if you're still going to bat so hard against such a simple, inoffensive fact as that, then it just speaks to a basic inability/unwillingness to acknowledge that the team could have actual shortcomings.

You want to talk about DVOA, huh? It would be better if you actually read the summary of their rankings each week, instead of only looking at the ratings and therefore not comprehending the context. The Pats' worst defensive DVOA came in the first two games of the season. And most of that was due to a single half of football, which no one on the planet will deny that it was an atrocious half of defensive play. Since then, they've had a DVOA of -6.7%, which would put them at 11th in the league over that period. As is literally always the case, the defense is getting better throughout the season. In addition, it currently ranks #3 in PPG, and 14th in YPG. None of that, including the recent DVOA, suggests this defense is bad, or even average. That's something you just made up because you're afraid of being called a homer on a Pats forum for some reason.

No one is claiming the defense is great. Just that it's good enough and that the team is by far the most complete in the league. That's a fact, and the total DVOA since Brady's return shows that as well, since you love that metric so much.

Try to comprehend what it is you're posting about next time.

 

[Nehalem]

You want to talk about DVOA, huh? It would be better if you actually read the summary of their rankings each week, instead of only looking at the ratings and therefore not comprehending the context. The Pats' worst defensive DVOA came in the first two games of the season. And most of that was due to a single half of football, which no one on the planet will deny that it was an atrocious half of defensive play. Since then, they've had a DVOA of -6.7%, which would put them at 11th in the league over that period. As is literally always the case, the defense is getting better throughout the season. In addition, it currently ranks #3 in PPG, and 14th in YPG. None of that, including the recent DVOA, suggests this defense is bad, or even average. That's something you just made up because you're afraid of being called a homer on a Pats forum for some reason.

No one is claiming the defense is great. Just that it's good enough and that the team is by far the most complete in the league. That's a fact, and the total DVOA since Brady's return shows that as well, since you love that metric so much.

Try to comprehend what it is you're posting about next time.

I would say being 14 of 32 in YPG is pretty close to the definition of average. Whereas 11 of 32 in DVOA would probably be on the borderline of average->above-average

 

[Patjew]

So basically the D is averagely average.

 

[Keyser Söze]

Shut up! The Patriots defense is elite!

Bahahahahahahahahahaha thanks for the laugh

 

[BelichicksBlackEye]

Will Dion be back for Seahawks??

 

[NewFeep]

a thread about dion's return turned to a battle of the D's......... hmmmmmmm I hope dion bends but doesn't break........

 

[FourierSeries]

I would say being 14 of 32 in YPG is pretty close to the definition of average. Whereas 11 of 32 in DVOA would probably be on the borderline of average->above-average

If you're going to consider DVOA, then you have to take into consideration what Football Outsiders have to say on the matter. In their own words:

So essentially, this is the Patriots team we've been seeing for the past month: a dominant offense combined with a good defense instead of an average defense. Combine the Brady offense with the defense of Weeks 3-8 and top-ten special teams, and you would get a team with DVOA of 41.9%. That's slightly higher than the rating the Patriots had when they were 8-0 after the first half of last season. If the Patriots continue to play at this level after the bye week, we'll see this Patriots team emerge in Weighted DVOA as those games from early in the season drop in strength over the next few weeks.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Week 8 DVOA Ratings

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I don't know about stats, but if belichick (and his pal lombardi) says the D is not good it's good enough for me.

 

[Marqui]

I don't know about stats, but if belichick (and his pal lombardi) says the D is not good it's good enough for me.

Yeah you're really in a sad state of denial if you don't realize the defense is bad when even Belichick indicated it publicly.