PATS TRADE JAMIE COLLINS!!!

[TBR]

As long as we're not looking back on this 10 years from, without ring #5, saying: "Why the f*ck did Bill trade Chandler Jones and Jamie Collins in Brady's last few elite years instead of riding them to a SuperBowl?" --- I'll be fine with this trade.

 

[BradyFTW!]

So everyone and his mother is commenting about the slippage in Collins' play, his struggles against the run, and the diminishing of his playing time. Many of them (not all) had said little, or noting, prior to the trade. This is yet another good example of why people need to think for themselves, rather than always buying the ******** the (in this case, sports) media sells them.

I agree with this point in general, which is why I'm not inclined to pay much attention to what most people are saying. The one who I do put some stock in--Mike Lombardi--has been harping on Collins for over a month now, FWIW, so in his case it's not a recent or reactionary thing. He's previously stopped just a small bit short of saying there's an effort issue at play, but he's been happy to imply the hell out of it. He also says Hightower isn't playing especially well, which I'm definitely not seeing and was surprised to hear.

 

[mosslost]

Jamie Collins trade theories? As to why? I'm just bored thought it might be good to ask. Obviously contract difference, but why during a SB run hopefully..... What are your theories? I did not want to start a thread so I thought I would ask right here in this one. If you have time just throw in your thoughts. thanks

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

Pats gave up 31 to Baltimore and were an unlikely Malcom Butler interception away from giving up 31 to Seattle in the 2014 postseason and that was with Jones and Collins. Let's not get carried away with comments like "riding Collins and Jones" to a Super Bowl. They're good, but they're replaceable.

Collins' value is his completeness in all phases of the game. That absolutely has value, apparently $11M/year to BB if reports are true. Finding one person who has all of the skills Collins has is not going to happen.

But football is so compartmentalized now, especially with all the personnel groupings. The Pats will hope to replace Collins' pass rush skill with more Nink, Sheard and Flowers. They'll hope to replace his run stopping with more Roberts. They'll likely hope to replace his coverage skill with more nickel and dime packages. Yes, the Pats' defensive personnel groupings will show their hand more than with the multi-talented Collins in there, so they will have issues to deal with. But I suspect BB will find a way.

And if you're going to throw Von Miller money at someone, give me an elite pass rusher who perhaps is just okay at run stopping and pass coverage over Collins who is good to great at those, but not elite at any one thing.

Regards,
Chris

 

[Deus Irae]

I agree with this point in general, which is why I'm not inclined to pay much attention to what most people are saying. The one who I do put some stock in--Mike Lombardi--has been harping on Collins for over a month now, FWIW, so in his case it's not a recent or reactionary thing. He also says Hightower isn't playing especially well, which I'm definitely not seeing and was surprised to hear.

Hightower has been struggling with his knee issue, but he played better this past week. He may be week-to-week with that knee (I don't know the specifics of the injury), or he may be improving towards a full recovery.

 

[Mack Herron]

Jamie Collins trade theories? As to why? I'm just bored thought it might be good to ask. Obviously contract difference, but why during a SB run hopefully..... What are your theories? I did not want to start a thread so I thought I would ask right here in this one. If you have time just throw in your thoughts. thanks

Nobody here or in the media knows. Bill knows and he ain't talking.

 

[Boomer B]

Fauria on the radio today said his sources tell him that there were locker room issues with Collins and that is the reason he is gone.

Only thing that makes sense to me. Sure, he isn't playing as well as he has, but you don't give away a player with his skillset for next to nothing in the middle of the season, and thin out your LB core while doing so.

 

[TomPatriot]

Nobody here or in the media knows. Bill knows and he ain't talking.

He ain't talking? Imagine that!

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

As long as we're not looking back on this 10 years from, without ring #5, saying: "Why the f*ck did Bill trade Chandler Jones and Jamie Collins in Brady's last few elite years instead of riding them to a SuperBowl?" --- I'll be fine with this trade.

It's impossible to say they would have been the difference in winning or losing a Super Bowl.

Look no further than Super Bowl 49. If they give it to Lynch, he scores and Seattle wins, what good did Revis and Browner do us?

 

[Mack Herron]

He ain't talking? Imagine that!

Well, except to those of us who receive Bill's weekly periodical, "What's Best for the Team." Subscription requires a blood oath swearing to secrecy.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Pats gave up 31 to Baltimore and were an unlikely Malcom Butler interception away from giving up 31 to Seattle in the 2014 postseason and that was with Jones and Collins. Let's not get carried away with comments like "riding Collins and Jones" to a Super Bowl. They're good, but they're replaceable.

Collins' value is his completeness in all phases of the game. That absolutely has value, apparently $11M/year to BB if reports are true. Finding one person who has all of the skills Collins has is not going to happen.

But football is so compartmentalized now, especially with all the personnel groupings. The Pats will hope to replace Collins' pass rush skill with more Nink, Sheard and Flowers. They'll hope to replace his run stopping with more Roberts. They'll likely hope to replace his coverage skill with more nickel and dime packages. Yes, the Pats' defensive personnel groupings will show their hand more than with the multi-talented Collins in there, so they will have issues to deal with. But I suspect BB will find a way.

And if you're going to throw Von Miller money at someone, give me an elite pass rusher who perhaps is just okay at run stopping and pass coverage over Collins who is good to great at those, but not elite at any one thing.

Regards,
Chris

Coincidentally, I went back today and watched the 4th quarter of SB49, because that's something that can always be counted on to put a smile on my face. If you go back to the last Seattle drive, the defense was--as you said--a Butler goal line INT from collapsing in the last 2 minutes. I think we all remember that, so I'm not going to rehash it since you already covered it well.

What I will say is that the first big play - the one that jumpstarted that drive for Seattle - was a big pass down the sideline to Lynch, who was wide open because Collins gambled and bit really hard on the sluggo. Given how the Pats traditionally handle 2 minute drills in situations like this, I'd bet that they were preaching "keep the play in front of you, don't gamble and surrender yardage in 30 yard chunks", and Collins did pretty much the opposite of that. For anyone who wishes to view it again, you can watch the play here at 1:57:02 (linking at given time isn't working since it's trying to embed the player instead):



I'm not a huge fan of burying guys on the way out of town, so I'm not pointing this out to claim that Collins was anything short of a really good player for us. I supported the idea of the Pats signing him to a premium long-term deal on Sunday, so I'm not going to sit here and claim he sucks now. But looking back and knowing what we know, it's understandable why the Pats weren't willing to pay him anywhere near what he was reported to be seeking.

 

[mosslost]

It's impossible to say they would have been the difference in winning or losing a Super Bowl.

Look no further than Super Bowl 48. If they give it to Lynch, he scores and Seattle wins, what good did Revis and Browner do us?

49?

 

[mosslost]

Coincidentally, I went back today and watched the 4th quarter of SB49, because that's something that can always be counted on to put a smile on my face. If you go back to the last Seattle drive, the defense was--as you said--a Butler goal line INT from collapsing in the last 2 minutes. I think we all remember that, so I'm not going to rehash it since you already covered it well.

What I will say is that the first big play - the one that jumpstarted that drive for Seattle - was a big pass down the sideline to Lynch, who was wide open because Collins gambled and bit really hard on the sluggo.

I'm not a huge fan of burying guys on the way out of town, so I'm not pointing this out to claim that Collins was anything short of a really good player for us. I supported the idea of the Pats signing him to a premium long-term deal on Sunday, so I'm not going to sit here and claim he sucks now. But looking back and knowing what we know, it's understand why the Pats weren't willing to pay him anywhere near what he was reported to be seeking.

The Defense really only was bad on the FIRST play of that drive. It really pretty much stifled them except for the fluke pass which was essentially broken up. Even stopping Lynch on the run before the Pick was excellent play by Hightower.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

49?

Oops. Brain fart.

 

[BradyFTW!]

The Defense really only was bad on the FIRST play of that drive. It really pretty much stifled them except for the fluke pass which was essentially broken up. Even stopping Lynch on the run before the Pick was excellent play by Hightower.

Sure, and that one really bad play fell squarely on Collins, which is what made it relevant to this thread.

 

[mosslost]

Oops. Brain fart.

np... we should have won 48 too if we had Gronk (46 and 47 too?)

 

[TomPatriot]

49?

In his defense the Pats should have been in and won that one too!

 

[Bradyking12]

In his defense the Pats should have been in and won that one too!

We make SB48 and we get butt raped like Denver imo

 

[RobertWeathers]

We make SB48 and we get butt raped like Denver imo

Yea I don't think that game would go well.

It wouldn't be 43-8 but maybe 28-13ish.....

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

Yea I don't think that game would go well.

It wouldn't be 43-8 but maybe 28-13ish.....

Yeah the 2013 Pats reminds me of the 2004 Astros. It sucked missing out on the World Series but we wouldn't have beaten the Red Sox anyway. Same with that Seahawks team.