Mike Lombardi on the Jamie Collins trade..

[Brewskies]

Must have been something going on behind the scenes because we could have gotten the same draft had we kept him and he went FA. I trust in BB.

 

[turkeyneck]

Bill wants a smoothly running machine. Pistons, piston rods, crankshaft, timing belt, cam, pushrods, rockers, valves all orchestrated, each doing their job. When one part, say a piston rod, decides to go off freelancing, the whole machine destroys itself. This is what we've been seeing with JC and why, despite being a piston rod of the finest materials, he's gone. BB can't and won't have a wild rod destroying the machine.

 

[rochrist]

You're focusing way too hard on a fantasy trade that has so little to do with my point at hand.

The point is, if you're going to dump Collins, a Pro Bowl calliber LB, mid season on a defense that could use more help, not less, then you need to get a player in return that will help the team win a Super Bowl this season.

A 4th in 2018 does very little to help this team win a Super Bowl in 2016, especially when you're essentially just dumping your 2nd round picked All-Pro LB and thinning your depth further.

Every big trade Bill has made, I initially was shocked, but saw the value in the move, one way or another.

Unfortunately there's no way I can see the positive in just dumping Collins for a mid-tier pick, rather then keep him on the team for the duration of the season and letting him walk for a similar, if not better, comp pick. Doesn't make sense, any way you slice it.

If we lose in the postseason because of the defense, or Roberts and Hightower go down with an injury, you won't be singing the same tune about "more than life after Brady" and that this move being "for the team". You'll be pissed we gave away one of our best Linebackers to the Browns for a crapshoot pick two seasons down the line.

What if they lose in the postseason WITH Collins. He certainly didn't cover himself with glory in last year's AFCC game.

 

[BTTA]

Bill wants a smoothly running machine. Pistons, piston rods, crankshaft, timing belt, cam, pushrods, rockers, valves all orchestrated, each doing their job. When one part, say a piston rod, decides to go off freelancing, the whole machine destroys itself. This is what we've been seeing with JC and why, despite being a piston rod of the finest materials, he's gone. BB can't and won't have a wild rod destroying the machine.

A "machine model" is one way to image an organization, and in this case a reasonable analogy. Another is as a tightly knit social network, where anything anyone does if felt by the others. If Collins was beginning to shift his on the field behavior towards piling up stats that would get him a better contract with another team, I can see why the coaches would want him out ASAP.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Lombardi was on EEI this am and was killing Collins again.

Lombardi, who spent two years working with the Patriots but now works for the NFL on FOX, said the trade wasn't about Collins' contract but rather his level of play.

"Watch the tape. Jamie has not played particularly well,"




"I think when you watch the tape and grade the player, the performance level of the player, and a lot of other players on their defense, hasn't been of the highest caliber," Lombardi said.

Lombardi noted how the Patriots took Collins off run defense and that when rookie Elandon Roberts was added more into the mix, the defense started playing better.

...

While much has been made about Collins' contract and impending free agency, Lombardi said he didn't think that was a factor.

"I think it was more convenient to trade him than manage around him," Lombardi said of what he perceived as Collins' poor play.

"When I was there, as good as we are, it's by how you go," Lombardi said recalling a conversation with Collins. "We go as you go, when he wants to play and he's really into it. He can be a really good player."

"Sometimes freelancing is a problem, and I think sometimes effort is a problem," Lombardi said of Collins.

Jamie Collins trade: Former Patriots exec Mike Lombardi says Patriots had to manage around Collins on WEEI

 

[rochrist]

Makes me wonder how much if at all Lombardi is talking out of his ass.

Why would you EVER expect an active member of the coaching staff to say ANYTHING negative about a player under these circumstances? Have they ever done that before?

 

[AzPatsFan]

The defense has been a top NFL defense. Now, what that might say about the offenses the team's faced, and the other NFL defenses this year...

Deus,

It's nice to see someone else agrees with my assessment. This is a good Defence. BB could care less about defensive stats, other than Points Against. He will gladly trade yards for time to insure victories. Even playing Prevent, the opposition has not been scoring much.

 

[Todd Bradley]

What if they lose in the postseason WITH Collins. He certainly didn't cover himself with glory in last year's AFCC game.

We wouldn't be questioning any of this at all if Collins is still on the team, and we can't play out two scenarios at once in real life, so what you're saying is a moot point.

 

[Jangles]

No, no they shouldn't. They may not be great, but they're not bad. They're good. They are 7-1 good. They are 3-1 without Brady good. They are keeping the score low without turnovers good.

What they aren't is "as good as they can be".

I just don't agree

Teams move the ball at will and yeah it's nice they don't score more but we haven't played hardly anybody with a potent offense.

What we've seen isn't awful. But I think it would be if matched up against a clicking packers, falcons, or even cowboys squad.

 

[GodBrady]

Bill wants a smoothly running machine. Pistons, piston rods, crankshaft, timing belt, cam, pushrods, rockers, valves all orchestrated, each doing their job. When one part, say a piston rod, decides to go off freelancing, the whole machine destroys itself. This is what we've been seeing with JC and why, despite being a piston rod of the finest materials, he's gone. BB can't and won't have a wild rod destroying the machine.

I understand the sentiment, but the narrative is being pushed a little hard, to the point where it's starting to sound like sour grapes. Even if Jamie Collins "freelanced", he was still a very productive player and arguably a difference-maker. If you deem him expendable, fine, but you've got to do better than the compensation we got.

Belichick is great, and I think he adheres to the philosophy of trading a player too early than too late. But nobody is perfect, and nobody is beyond reproach. I'm not convinced we made the right move with JC, but I guess we'll see how things play out.

 

[Boomer B]

I listened to Lombardi, and he was pretty harsh on Collins, but is right in certain aspects.

- Collins has not been good in coverage. A guy with his athletic ability should not be beat 2x in a tight defensive game by old man Owen Daniels.

- Our defense has issues, especially on the D-line and pass rush. I watched A. Hicks last night dominate the Viking o-line last night and I wonder why we let him go. Chris Long is doing nothing. Sheard has not been great. We are generating next to nothing up the middle.

I think as fans we tend to overvalue some of our own. Collins is a very talented player but he certainly has his issues, especially with coverage. He is no where close to being the best LB in the league. I also think Malcolm Butler is a very good corner, but he's not all-pro and isn't worth elite CB money. I still want him on the team because he is tough as nails and isn't afraid to hit, but in coverage he is good, just not great.

D does need to get better, 'cause there will come a time when they will have to win a game when the O is slowed. The players AND the coaches need to be better.

 

[rochrist]

We wouldn't be questioning any of this at all if Collins is still on the team, and we can't play out two scenarios at once in real life, so what you're saying is a moot point.

Of course, it's conjecture as was speculating on losing without him. But I guess the point is, Bill wouldn't have done this if he didn't feel it /improved/ their chances. At least we won't have to watch him getting roasted in the championship game by a journeyman TE who's now out of football entirely.

 

[mosi]

I listened to Lombardi, and he was pretty harsh on Collins, but is right in certain aspects.

- Collins has not been good in coverage. A guy with his athletic ability should not be beat 2x in a tight defensive game by old man Owen Daniels.

- Our defense has issues, especially on the D-line and pass rush. I watched A. Hicks last night dominate the Viking o-line last night and I wonder why we let him go. Chris Long is doing nothing. Sheard has not been great. We are generating next to nothing up the middle.

I think as fans we tend to overvalue some of our own. Collins is a very talented player but he certainly has his issues, especially with coverage. He is no where close to being the best LB in the league. I also think Malcolm Butler is a very good corner, but he's not all-pro and isn't worth elite CB money. I still want him on the team because he is tough as nails and isn't afraid to hit, but in coverage he is good, just not great.

D does need to get better, 'cause there will come a time when they will have to win a game when the O is slowed. The players AND the coaches need to be better.

It is funny that during games, these boards are ripe with comments on how bad the defense has played. Now, BB and his team are almost saying the same thing as these boards on game day.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

Listen to Lombardi here:



Sounds like he thinks Collins should have been rushing the passer more and covering less.

Doesn't sound like Collins' LB coach was altogether on board with this move:

Pats LB coach: Freelancing wasn't an issue for Collins