OT: Cavs vs. Warriors (Who Wins the NBA Finals?)

[RobertWeathers]

Larry and Magic would never, ever quit when the going got tough.

They never did. Neither did MJ.

 

[PP2]

If I were a betting man, I'd be betting on Warriors leading 3-1 after tonight. Cleveland blew its wad in game 3 and I don't think they have the mental toughness to follow up on a blowout. I've seen this pattern before, in the NBA playoffs.

 

[letekro]

Just my take, but 3 things there: Warriors were the clear favorites going in, OKC gagged like Linda Lovelace and in the 3 losses to OKC they were beaten by nearly 20 points per game. Very talented team, but "Warriors", they ain't.

OKC was clearly the more talented, versatile team. They were crushed under a barrage of clutch play on both ends in games 6 and 7. I think you should give credit where credit is due. Too many old-timers on here not giving the young guys credit.

 

[letekro]

They never did. Neither did MJ.

Lebron's behavior against the Celtics in 2010 was bizarre and childish. No question, he melted down under the pressure of a team that was far more mentally tough. I'm not sure that is quitting, as much as it is choking, or being a bad loser, to be honest. Lebron still showed mental weakness the next year against the Mavs as well, but hasn't since. I know Larry had his share of poor playoff performances, going out 6 times when his team had HCA and his numbers were way, way off his regular season numbers in a few of those. And Magic was raked over coals for the 84 finals. I think like with all the greats, his faults will be minimized after he retires.

 

[Jackson 2]

OKC was clearly the more talented, versatile team. They were crushed under a barrage of clutch play on both ends in games 6 and 7. I think you should give credit where credit is due. Too many old-timers on here not giving the young guys credit.

Or, on the other hand, one might posit that there are some younger posters here who cavalierly dismiss the idea that any athlete not within their immediate memory could possibly be better than those they see today. For the record, I'm 67 years old and I'm of the opinion that, generally speaking, the athletes of today are faster, bigger, better-conditioned and physically more talented than those who came before them. What I do question is the mental toughness and tenacity of today's athletes vs. those of prior generations. Simply stated, I sincerely believe that many, not all, of today's athlete's quit more readily. Since we're speaking of the NBA, I know with absolute certainty that guys like Bird, Magic, Jabbar, McHale, Laimbeer, Dennis Johnson, Jordan, Russell (and I could go on and on) would never pack it in the way I've seen superstars in these playoffs lie down like dogs in games where their team has fallen behind. There's a mental "softness" that I've observed all too frequently with many, not all, of the superstars of today. Once again, this is just my opinion and I render it as an "old-timer" who immensely enjoys watching today's athletes and marvels at their physical skills.

 

[letekro]

Or, on the other hand, one might posit that there are some younger posters here who cavalierly dismiss the idea that any athlete not within their immediate memory could possibly be better than those they see today. For the record, I'm 67 years old and I'm of the opinion that, generally speaking, the athletes of today are faster, bigger, better-conditioned and physically more talented than those who came before them. What I do question is the mental toughness and tenacity of today's athletes vs. those of prior generations. Simply stated, I sincerely believe that many, not all, of today's athlete's quit more readily. Since we're speaking of the NBA, I know with absolute certainty that guys like Bird, Magic, Jabbar, McHale, Laimbeer, Dennis Johnson, Jordan, Russell (and I could go on and on) would never pack it in the way I've seen superstars in these playoffs lie down like dogs in games where their team has fallen behind. There's a mental "softness" that I've observed all too frequently with many, not all, of the superstars of today. Once again, this is just my opinion and I render it as an "old-timer" who immensely enjoys watching today's athletes and marvels at their physical skills.

Respect should be given both ways. You listed a lot of tough guys from the past. But there are tough guys now too. And not everyone was tough back then.

 

[Jackson 2]

Respect should be given both ways. You listed a lot of tough guys from the past. But there are tough guys now too. And not everyone was tough back then.

Reading that response leads me to conclude that you didn't really read my response. Or, if you did read it, you didn't understand it. Not sure what else to say.

 

[Kontradiction]

Just my take, but 3 things there: Warriors were the clear favorites going in, OKC gagged like Linda Lovelace and in the 3 losses to OKC they were beaten by nearly 20 points per game. Very talented team, but "Warriors", they ain't.

They've had off nights. It takes a lot of energy and focus to sustain that kind of greatness throughout an entire season and it wears on a team. We should know this better than most. The best defense in NFL history had an off night in Miami in 1985. The best offense of all time had off nights against Baltimore and Philly in 2007, then had a really off night (though this was due to a combination of factors as well) in Super Bowl XLII. The best college football dynasty this decade, Alabama, has had several "off nights" on teams that were otherwise powerhouses. It happens. I think, though, that it happens more in games where playoff contests are 7 games. You'll see teams come out with a different intensity in one game than they had the previous games. I expect Golden State to come out looking like the Warrior team of the first two games again tonight.

 

[letekro]

Reading that response leads me to conclude that you didn't really read my response. Or, if you did read it, you didn't understand it. Not sure what else to say.

I must have misunderstood. I said you need to respect the new guys too. You said that you are not impressed by the Warriors. Not impressed by Lebron. Who of the current players has done more under more intense scrutiny and pressure than those guys?

 

[Jackson 2]

I must have misunderstood. I said you need to respect the new guys too. You said that you are not impressed by the Warriors. Not impressed by Lebron. Who of the current players has done more under more intense scrutiny and pressure than those guys?

Look, I've read enough posts around here lately to fully understand that getting into a pissing contest with you is a fool's errand. Not doin' it, so find another chump. Where did I write that I was not impressed with the Warriors' or Lebron's abilities? He's a great player, Curry is a great player. My point is that, based upon what I've seen, their deficiencies are located just to the left of their breastplates. I've seen them both quit when behind and not just quit, but exhibit body language that has been flat-out embarrassing. Now, basing any opinion just on body language is risky business. But, when it's combined with more empirical and objective data, it simply serves to reinforce the impression. And that's where I am.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

It would be nice if curry shows up tonight. I don't know if he's injured. Warriors need to play better defense as well.

 

[letekro]

Look, I've read enough posts around here lately to fully understand that getting into a pissing contest with you is a fool's errand. Not doin' it, so find another chump. Where did I write that I was not impressed with the Warriors' or Lebron's abilities? He's a great player, Curry is a great player. My point is that, based upon what I've seen, their deficiencies are located just to the left of their breastplates. I've seen them both quit when behind and not just quit, but exhibit body language that has been flat-out embarrassing. Now, basing any opinion just on body language is risky business. But, when it's combined with more empirical and objective data, it simply serves to reinforce the impression. And that's where I am.

Fair enough. I was referring to the fact that you are not impressed with the "heart" of these guys. My opinion is that that is dangerous ground, particularly with proven champions. Our mind has a tendency to forget our childhood heroes were fallible too, and did not always play well at the biggest moments. But, I respect your opinion.

 

[BobDigital]

I wish this series had more down to the wire games :/

Well the Cavs played the best game they could and the Warriors played like crap. I expected half of that to happen for game 3. Now the Cavs will play another good game but not be able to do it as well and the Warriors win a tight one and then the wind will be taken out of the Cavs sails.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Lebron's behavior against the Celtics in 2010 was bizarre and childish. No question, he melted down under the pressure of a team that was far more mentally tough. I'm not sure that is quitting, as much as it is choking, or being a bad loser, to be honest. Lebron still showed mental weakness the next year against the Mavs as well, but hasn't since. I know Larry had his share of poor playoff performances, going out 6 times when his team had HCA and his numbers were way, way off his regular season numbers in a few of those. And Magic was raked over coals for the 84 finals. I think like with all the greats, his faults will be minimized after he retires.

LaBron has an issue with effort still as well.

 

[letekro]

LaBron has an issue with effort still as well.

I would note that he has an awful lot of responsibility on both ends of the court, and that he has played more minutes per season than anyone in the history of the league other than Russell and Chamberlain. Those factors may not permit maximum effort in every moment of every game, particularly after 13 seasons. He has already played more minutes than Larry Bird, Jerry West or Magic Johnson. He will pass Russell next year. Just because he looks the part, it doesn't mean he actually is superman.

 

[ausbacker]

Thanks to the officials, it didn't take long for this game to become unwatchable.

 

[Joker]

ridiculous...but not unexpected

 

[TBR]

LeBron is pretty elite at backing his ass into the opposing team.

 

[TBR]

It never felt like the Cavs were leading by as much as they were (5-8).

I feel like that's due to the officiating.

 

[juny]

Don't think officiating is favoring one team. The refs are just not calling any fouls. Almost rugby like out there