Caldwell or Gaffney - Who would you rather have?

[Rob0729]

buddy, i know i know. Caldwell wasn't the only one that made mistakes that game but if he catches that ball, i believe we win.

We blew a 21-6 halftime lead and you are going to put this loss on Caldwell for one play? Eventhough we got 34 yards on the next two plays after that dropped pass and Brady turned over the ball over with 24 seconds left on the Indy 45 by looking down Troy Brown. We still had a decent opportunity to win the game after the Caldwell drop. Yet, people want to lay the loss on Caldwell's feet.

 

[pats1]

buddy, i know i know. Caldwell wasn't the only one that made mistakes that game but if he catches that ball, i believe we win.

Gaffney doesn't commit that stupid penalty and the Pats have the ball on the IND 6 for 2nd down.

Caldwell doesn't drop the pass and, because of the 5 extra yards away, Caldwell probably gets to about the IND 5 or 6 before he's tackled, for 2nd down.

Brady immediately notices Caldwell before the Colts have any time to react, and Caldwell scores.

Who choked again?

 

[Keegs]

i'll address these later you bunch of broken records you

can we go one at a time though?

 

[Keegs]

So what does that tell us?

- We know Caldwell can handle the rigors of an entire season.
- We've established a consistent level of performance from Caldwell.
- Caldwell has been in the system longer.

Gaffney played 11 games for the Pats; Caldwell played 16. Caldwell's average performance is considerably higher.

You are over reacting to one dropped pass like a kid crying over spilled milk. Do you want to cut Brady for throwing the season ending interception two years in a row? Stop being a baby and look at this rationally.

I can understand wanting to trade Caldwell instead of Gaffney. The reason to do this is that any rational team in the NFL will value Caldwell more than Gaffney.

It tells me that you are crazy to make such a horrific comparison and leave out information, and then instead of admitting it was b.s., trying to prove another point through my response.

Both drops by Caldwell were choke plays. He is a choke player and does not fit on this team.

 

[pats1]

It tells me that you are crazy to make such a horrific comparison and leave out information, and then instead of admitting it was b.s., trying to prove another point through my response.

Both drops by Caldwell were choke plays. He is a choke player and does not fit on this team.

Beautiful, comprehensive response, Keegs. Excellent job.

 

[Keegs]

Gaffney doesn't commit that stupid penalty and the Pats have the ball on the IND 6 for 2nd down.

Caldwell doesn't drop the pass and, because of the 5 extra yards away, Caldwell probably gets to about the IND 5 or 6 before he's tackled, for 2nd down.

Brady immediately notices Caldwell before the Colts have any time to react, and Caldwell scores.

Who choked again?

If it wasn't for Gaffney bailing out Reche, he would have hurt us more that game than he already did.

GAffney had a spectacular TD catch in the back of the endzone to bail out Reche when he dropped a td catch that Michael Moore could have caught. If not for Gaffney bailing out Reche on that first drop i think you'd all be singing a different tune.

And you are blaming Brady for not noticing Reche quickly enough?
when he finally threw him the ball, Reche dropped it. So any argument about Brady seeing him faster or throwing the ball to him earlier is garbage b/c you can't prove he would have caught the ball anyways.

All we saw is his chokejob drop.

 

[Keegs]

Beautiful, comprehensive response, Keegs. Excellent job.

Tell me this is a joke... because i took it as one.

That guy has no clue what he's talking about....

You know it's unfair to compare Reche's regular season to Jabar's in terms of total stats for the entire season without taking into account how many games they played in, how many games they started, and HOW LONG THEY WERE EVEN ON THE TEAM.

You look bad defending this garbage. You don't need his help, i don't know why you stand by that crap.

And whats up with this response of yours? it's less "comprehensive" than mine, yet your are calling me out for a bad response, the irony.:singing:
tell me that was a joke.

 

[Keegs]

Gaffney doesn't commit that stupid penalty and the Pats have the ball on the IND 6 for 2nd down.

Caldwell doesn't drop the pass and, because of the 5 extra yards away, Caldwell probably gets to about the IND 5 or 6 before he's tackled, for 2nd down.

Brady immediately notices Caldwell before the Colts have any time to react, and Caldwell scores.

Who choked again?

is this implying that Brady choked?

 

[patriot lifer]

caldwell had a better minicamp, but TC will be the better test. not too far off now

 

[Keegs]

caldwell had a better minicamp, but TC will be the better test. not too far off now

i agree, we'll see.
Also, Minicamp is different from the playoffs.

I'm willing to see what happens and just pray he's traded or our number 5.

What i don't like is the b.s. comparisons, information purposely left out of arguments, and everyone on the Pro-Caldwell side suddenly acting like they don't care about a player's ability to perform in the playoffs

it's complete garbage.

 

[Rob0729]

is this implying that Brady choked?

I know you weren't responding to me, but Brady definitely choked in each of the last two playoff losses (maybe or maybe not that play, but at critical times in both games). His interception by Bailey should never have been thrown because he was on the run backpedaling and threw off his back foot and off kilter. He ended the game against the Colts by staring down Troy Brown which allowed Marlon Jackson to make a play on the ball.

I think you can make a stronger arguement for Brady choking in the AFCCG than Caldwell. It doesn't change the fact that Brady is arguably the best QB in the NFL.

 

[Rob0729]

caldwell had a better minicamp, but TC will be the better test. not too far off now

I still think Gaffney and Caldwell are fighting for spot on the depth chart each will be slotted more than fighting for a roster spot during training camp. Based on how long it took players to get up to speed with the offense last year, I think both players will play a decent role in the September and early October games.

 

[Keegs]

I know you weren't responding to me, but Brady definitely choked in each of the last two playoff losses (maybe or maybe not that play, but at critical times in both games). His interception by Bailey should never have been thrown because he was on the run backpedaling and threw off his back foot and off kilter. He ended the game against the Colts by staring down Troy Brown which allowed Marlon Jackson to make a play on the ball.

I think you can make a stronger arguement for Brady choking in the AFCCG than Caldwell. It doesn't change the fact that Brady is arguably the best QB in the NFL.

yes of course Brady didn't play perfect. I was frustrated with his performances in both these games.

But Caldwell has 0 superbowl rings and has been mvp of the superbowl 0 times.

We should not even be allowed to compare the 2, it's ridiculous.

 

[Rob0729]

yes of course Brady didn't play perfect. I was frustrated with his performances in both these games.

But Caldwell has 0 superbowl rings and has been mvp of the superbowl 0 times.

We should not even be allowed to compare the 2, it's ridiculous.

I'm not comparing the two, but I am pointing out what Brady did at the end of the AFCCG was far worse than what Caldwell did. You can overcome a dropped ball when you are trying to drive down the field with less than a minute left to win the game. You can't overcome an interception. We could have still won the game with Caldwell's dropped passes if Brady didn't throw an interception.

Laurence Maroney has no Super Bowl rings and he muffed up a hand off that could have been a disaster if Mankins didn't fall on the ball and got 11 yards on 8 carries in that game. Why aren't you upset that he is slated to be our lead running back. He choked just as bad as Caldwell. Actually, if he could have run the ball, we might not have let the Colts get back into the game.

I'm sorry. I didn't think Caldwell had a good game, but I didn't think he choked either. I think people are making a far bigger deal about two dropped balls than they really were especially since there were a lot of players on the team who played pretty bad.

 

[pats1]

is this implying that Brady choked?

Sure as hell is.

 

[pats1]

yes of course Brady didn't play perfect. I was frustrated with his performances in both these games.

But Caldwell has 0 superbowl rings and has been mvp of the superbowl 0 times.

We should not even be allowed to compare the 2, it's ridiculous.

Since when are we comparing Caldwell to Brady?

 

[pats1]

What i don't like is the b.s. comparisons, information purposely left out of arguments, and everyone on the Pro-Caldwell side suddenly acting like they don't care about a player's ability to perform in the playoffs

Wrong.

Quite simply, we're not using it as the end-all, be-all of a player's fate, as you appear to be.

Because if we were, I could make a list of about 15 players that "choked" in the AFCCG too.

Would you like me to begin? Tom Brady, Laurence Maroney, Heath Evans, Troy Brown, Reche Caldwell, Jabar Gaffney, Vince Wilfork, Tedy Bruschi, Ellis Hobbs, Artrell Hawkins...

 

[pats1]

Tell me this is a joke... because i took it as one.

That guy has no clue what he's talking about....

You know it's unfair to compare Reche's regular season to Jabar's in terms of total stats for the entire season without taking into account how many games they played in, how many games they started, and HOW LONG THEY WERE EVEN ON THE TEAM.

You look bad defending this garbage. You don't need his help, i don't know why you stand by that crap.

And whats up with this response of yours? it's less "comprehensive" than mine, yet your are calling me out for a bad response, the irony.:singing:
tell me that was a joke.

And yet you haven't said a peep about the stats I presented a few posts ago.

Ironic, huh?

 

[pats1]

If it wasn't for Gaffney bailing out Reche, he would have hurt us more that game than he already did.

GAffney had a spectacular TD catch in the back of the endzone to bail out Reche when he dropped a td catch that Michael Moore could have caught. If not for Gaffney bailing out Reche on that first drop i think you'd all be singing a different tune.

And you are blaming Brady for not noticing Reche quickly enough?
when he finally threw him the ball, Reche dropped it. So any argument about Brady seeing him faster or throwing the ball to him earlier is garbage b/c you can't prove he would have caught the ball anyways.

All we saw is his chokejob drop.

Here's this for you:

If it wasn't for Reche (and Troy) bailing out the Pats against the Chargers, we wouldn't be talking about any of this.

Both Brady and Troy have had their share of "chokes" the past couple of years.

To start:

-Brady's INT to Champ Bailey
-Brown's muffed punt
-Brady not seeing Caldwell open for 11 seconds
-Brown getting called for offensive pass interference to kill a drive
-Brown running the wrong route, almost causing a Sanders INT on 3rd and short
-Brady throwing the game-clinching pick to Jackson

 

[Keegs]

And yet you haven't said a peep about the stats I presented a few posts ago.

Ironic, huh?

your stats?

you mean the stats from Gaffney's first couple games on this team?

The same stats that compare Caldwell's 6th 7th, and 8th games?
the stats that mean nothing because my entire argument is based on playoff performances?

yeah what an argument you got there, fantastic job with the stats.

my god you are getting desperate.

Now i have to argue with you about why you can't compare Brady "choking" to Caldwell choking. Unbelievable.

Just take a step back and realize what you are doing.....