Brady Second Circuit Judges: Parker, Katzmann, Chin

[RobertWeathers]

That was one hell of a break down.

Thank God for McCann. Great analysis.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

Yep if this case was a poker hand he's holding a 2 and 9.

With a flop of A-K-K.

 

[Ring 6]

What you fail to realize is that many of those issues are perfectly reciprocal when viewed outside the context of this case. While it obviously didn't happen here, an arbitrator may also potentially treat management unfairly when it comes to discovery process, examining witnesses, levying punishments (yes, management can be punished for certain things), etc.

In other words, a court making it easier for other courts to overturn an evidently partial arbitrator's decision is not necessarily a pro-labor verdict.

Considering that labor is "the accused" who is appealing a discipline by management it's pretty safe to say that these issues overwhelming would apply more frequently to labor.

 

[Ring 6]

Not termination....suspension.

Same difference.

 

[Kdo5]

Well, according to Maz, this is VERY bad news for the Pats.

LOL seriously did he say that? I haven't bothered with sports radio since the AFCCG. TBH it feels so great to be a little disconnected with the sports media for a while.

But Mazz has no right to even speak. He had to choke on crow for an entire show because of how wrong he was last time.

 

[Deus Irae]

If Brady were to somehow lose and serve the suspension, it would mean that CBAs are absolutely meaningless.

Brady's not going to lose.

 

[Patriot Missile]

More embarrassment brought to you by the NFL. Now they have mediots that are starting to question the stripping(heist) of picks. The negative media attention they are going to receive is going to be a circus. Evidently right where they want to be. Front and center during NBA and MLB so their precious little money maker can be Relevant during the offseason.

Actually I think a more juicier story would be hgh and Peyton Manning but it's pretty clear they just want to discuss Peyton's possible retirement decision instead.

 

[SVN]

McCann analysis on the three judges
The judges who will decide Deflategate appeal

Should be slightly favorable for Brady is what I get out of it.

As the NFL has correctly insisted, federal judges are obligated to provide high deference to arbitration awards, meaning arbitration awards should only be vacated in truly exceptional circumstances. Will at least two of Judges Katzmann, Parker and Chin agree with Judge Berman that such exceptional circumstances existed for Brady?

This is the more scary way to think about it

 

[XLIX]

Considering that labor is "the accused" who is appealing a discipline by management it's pretty safe to say that these issues overwhelming would apply more frequently to labor.

Well, maybe someday you'll realize that not all management/labor disputes that go to arbitration involve some sort of discipline for the union member. There are countless issues that lead to disputes and grievances.

I spelled it out quite clearly when I specifically stated that in this case, labor is appealing the arbitrator's decision, but that doesn't mean it is always that way in other cases. Apparently I wasn't clear enough for some.

 

[Ring 6]

This is the more scary way to think about it

Lack of due process and fundamental fairness wrapped in a blanket of not allowing the accused to confront the investigator, whose supervisor happens to be the arbiter, with a side of hiding the facts of the investigation certainly are "exceptional" circumstances where the law is concerned.

 

[XLIX]

LOL seriously did he say that?

I was wondering the same thing myself.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

This is the more scary way to think about it

Try the less scary way-- "I, Roger Goodell, scoff at your silly notions of due process and demand this b*tch court rubber stamp my batsh*t crazy decision!"
Lower court said, "no."

 

[RobertWeathers]

Same difference.

Not really.

 

[Ring 6]

Well, maybe someday you'll realize that not all management/labor disputes that go to arbitration involve some sort of discipline for the union member. There are countless issues that lead to disputes and grievances.[\quote]
Maybe someday you will learn to understand what you read and recognize I did not say all, yet I said an overwhelming majority which is correct. The vast majority of union/management disputes that reach arbitration are a case of labor appealing a management decision, action, or employment action. While it is true that not all are, either you understand that or should just admit you have no clue what you are talking about.

I spelled it out quite clearly when I specifically stated that in this case, labor is appealing the arbitrator's decision, but that doesn't mean it is always that way in other cases. Apparently I wasn't clear enough for some.

You were crystal clear but wrong. While a Brady win would not be 100% advantageous to labor in future cases the number is near if not north of 90%

 

[XLIX]

McCann analysis on the three judges
The judges who will decide Deflategate appeal

Should be slightly favorable for Brady is what I get out of it.

He gives an excellent scouting report on the judges. Can't wait to see their combine numbers next week.

 

[Ring 6]

Not really.

How does the decision on the validity of an arbitrators decision with respect to a CBA apply to an employee is disciplined under a non CBA controlled non-Union employment agreement under a suspension but not a firing?

You do realize this case isn't about suspension it's about discipline ALLOWED UNDER THE NFL CBA.

 

[XLIX]

You were crystal clear but wrong. While a Brady win would not be 100% advantageous to labor in future cases the number is near if not north of 90%

That's an ignorant statement, not that I expect anything else from someone who argued that Roger Goodell deserves the benefit of the doubt. I read McCann's article, and something he wrote absolutely, 100% proves the point I am trying to make. I shall explain what that is, then leave you to (once again) have the last word you obsessively seek in every single discussion you get into.

McCann references a case: NY Telephone Company vs. Communication Workers of America. I'll make a long story short: those 2 parties had a disagreement, went to arbitration, and the union won. Management appealed to court. Management won the appeal and the arbitrator's decision was overturned. The union appealed that decision, and Judge Katzmann heard the appeal.

So how did this left-leaning, pro-labor judge come down? He upheld the 1st court's decision to overturn the arbitrator's award. So, in other words, he gave management the victory. The reason why is because he isn't focused on the merits of the case as much as he is focused on the authority of arbitrators.

 

[Ring 6]

That's an ignorant statement, not that I expect anything else from someone who argued that Roger Goodell deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Right because your guilty until proven innocent approach isn't ignorant at all. You lost that one once so leave it in that thread.

I read McCann's article, and something he wrote absolutely, 100% proves the point I am trying to make. I shall explain what that is, then leave you to (once again) have the last word you obsessively seek in every single discussion you get into.

McCann references a case: NY Telephone Company vs. Communication Workers of America. I'll make a long story short: those 2 parties had a disagreement, went to arbitration, and the union won. Management appealed to court. Management won the appeal and the arbitrator's decision was overturned. The union appealed that decision, and Judge Katzmann heard the appeal.

So how did this left-leaning, pro-labor judge come down? He upheld the 1st court's decision to overturn the arbitrator's award. So, in other words, he gave management the victory. The reason why is because he isn't focused on the merits of the case as much as he is focused on the authority of arbitrators.

How does that prove your point?
One single case proves that it isn't the vast majority or around 90%?
The discussion here isn't how they are going to rule. It is whether a Brady victory would be better for labor or management. Your argument is its equal so answer these questions.

Assuming a Brady win

Would labor or management be more likely to not have been given notice for discipline? Hint labor doesn't discipline management.

Would labor or management be more likely to withhold the notes of an investigation that resulted in discipline? Same hint

Would labor or management be more likely to not produce a witness who was critical in the development of the investigation that resulted in discipline? Same hint again.

Those are the issues in this case. To say th judge rules that Brady wasn't given notice should have been give the notes and question the investigator if the report that caused his discipline exactly how does that precedent give equal gain in rights to both labor and management?

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

That's an ignorant statement, not that I expect anything else from someone who argued that Roger Goodell deserves the benefit of the doubt. I read McCann's article, and something he wrote absolutely, 100% proves the point I am trying to make. I shall explain what that is, then leave you to (once again) have the last word you obsessively seek in every single discussion you get into.

McCann references a case: NY Telephone Company vs. Communication Workers of America. I'll make a long story short: those 2 parties had a disagreement, went to arbitration, and the union won. Management appealed to court. Management won the appeal and the arbitrator's decision was overturned. The union appealed that decision, and Judge Katzmann heard the appeal.

So how did this left-leaning, pro-labor judge come down? He upheld the 1st court's decision to overturn the arbitrator's award. So, in other words, he gave management the victory. The reason why is because he isn't focused on the merits of the case as much as he is focused on the authority of arbitrators.

Right, I think people are getting too caught up in the whole pro-labor vs. pro-management angle in a case that's really about how much deference the court is supposed to afford the arbitrator.

In a high profile case involving a celebrity who (in all likelihood) was innocent but was publicly pilloried by an arbitrator who ran roughshod over due process, I think CA2 will be reluctant to overrule the lower court judge. Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part but to rule the other way would make the court look weak and ineffective IMO.

 

[Fencer]

It can get a lot worse.

This could go to the Supreme Court after NFL loses the appeal.

1. My first reaction is to disagree, due to the following argument.

Going to the appeals court isn't qualitatively different than what the NFL has done before. It increases the QUANTITY of the problem, in that more of the same stuff is happening as time goes on, but not the QUALITY.

On the other hand, the SCOTUS is special, and all the more because it's just been politicized like never before. (What I mean by that is that Scalia's death accelerated the general trend of SCOTUS politicization.) Taking this to the SCOTUS would bring a whole new level of opprobrium on the NFL.

2. My second reaction is different. If the NFL appeals to the SCOTUS, and the SCOTUS refuses to accept the case, that might be the best option for the case to end with a whimper.