Should We Keep 11 Defensive Backs

[supafly]

If BB kept 6 CBs with Revis and Browner, I think he will have 6 CBs going into this season.

Browner didn't count as a roster spot since he was suspended. That gave Belichick a full month or so to play with the roster.

As we know, Ebner became injured early on, so I don't think there were 11DBs at many points of the season. Definitely not for the first 6 weeks or so.

Dennard went on IR at some point as well.

 

[Canuck]

QB's throw interceptions, RB's get negative yards, OL doesn't pass block and gives up sacks, receivers drop balls that hit them in their hands and CB's get beat for TD's. Welcome to preseason, players make mistakes. Butler was a backup cb last year and now he looks like he is a no 1 CB. It's way too soon to make judgements on Ryan.

 

[TommyD4207]

QB's throw interceptions, RB's get negative yards, OL doesn't pass block and gives up sacks, receivers drop balls that hit them in their hands and CB's get beat for TD's. Welcome to preseason, players make mistakes. Butler was a backup cb last year and now he looks like he is a no 1 CB. It's way too soon to make judgements on Ryan.

Needz moar time? The Maroney Principle? Logan Ryan was a 3rd rounder. He doesn't get afforded that protection, sorry.

He showed some flashes at times with ball skills in his rookie year, and fell off the map last year, easily the worst CB that hung on the roster all year. That's how Malcolm Butler was in the game on the last defensive play of the Super Bowl, and not Logan Ryan.

Ryan routinely appears lost in coverage, can't jam a receiver, needs to give huge cushions because his makeup speed is poor, whether that be actual speed or reaction time.

I'm done with this guy. Any of the other CBs on the roster can play matador just as well as Logan Ryan can.

 

[Fencer]

Well, let's count to 53 again.

• DBs. 10+. That's the premise of this thread.
• "Off the line" LBs, to use Reiss' phrase. 5+. The argument for 5 is to question how often 3 play at once. The argument for more is to mention STs and the questionable health of the Big 3 LBs.
• Edge rushers. 5+. 5 are pretty much locks -- Jones, Ninkovich, Sheard, Grissom, Flowers.
• DTs. 4+. Every roster projection I've seen assumes 5+.
• K/P/LS. 3 exactly.
• QB. 2 exactly.
• WR. 5-6, counting Slater. If you think two of Dobson/Gibson/Harper/Tyms make it, that's 6, unless Lafell is hurt enough to start the season on PUP.
• TE. 3+
• FB. 1 exactly.
• RB. 4+, beginning in Week 2 -- Blount, Gray, Bolden and at least one of White/Cadet/whoever.
• OT. 4 exactly, if we define everybody other than Solder, Vollmer, Cannon and Fleming as not being OTs.
• Interior OL. 4+, probably 5 exactly. With 2 rookies it's hard to see this staying down at 4.

My low numbers add to 50. It seems extremely likely that my low numbers of 4 each are too low at DT and interior OL, so we're already up to 52. That leaves a lot of competing claims for the 53rd spot, plus for any spots that are freed up by a position being allowed to thin via injury.

 

[Canuck]

Needz moar time? The Maroney Principle? Logan Ryan was a 3rd rounder. He doesn't get afforded that protection, sorry.

He showed some flashes at times with ball skills in his rookie year, and fell off the map last year, easily the worst CB that hung on the roster all year. That's how Malcolm Butler was in the game on the last defensive play of the Super Bowl, and not Logan Ryan.

Ryan routinely appears lost in coverage, can't jam a receiver, needs to give huge cushions because his makeup speed is poor, whether that be actual speed or reaction time.

I'm done with this guy. Any of the other CBs on the roster can play matador just as well as Logan Ryan can.

Your 2nd paragraph is pretty spot on. Ryan did have a bad year last year. I'm just reluctant to write a player off when he had a bad 2nd year. If that was the case then we would not have Devin McCourty on the team.
Not that Belichick has the greatest record when it comes to drafting DB's but those that stick around the 3rd year seems to be crucial. The first year Ryan put up good numbers then last year it wasn't that good. I'm just waiting to see which one shows up this year. One preseason game really doesn't tell you much. Ryan sucked playing man coverage in Butler's position for that one play, that was clear.

 

[TommyD4207]

Your 2nd paragraph is pretty spot on. Ryan did have a bad year last year. I'm just reluctant to write a player off when he had a bad 2nd year. If that was the case then we would not have Devin McCourty on the team.
Not that Belichick has the greatest record when it comes to drafting DB's but those that stick around the 3rd year seems to be crucial. The first year Ryan put up good numbers then last year it wasn't that good. I'm just waiting to see which one shows up this year. One preseason game really doesn't tell you much. Ryan sucked playing man coverage in Butler's position for that one play, that was clear.

The only difference to me is (and I think to BB as well), is that McCourty was a first round pick, and gets the benefit of the doubt in that respect.

 

[captain stone]

If I must count Slater in any position group, it's at DB and NOT WR; so my answer is Yes,
we should keep 11 DBs.

 

[Zuma]

Slater is a fringe WR that excels on 4th down on ST. He may not be a great WR...but he offsets that with great ST play...

Matthew Slater — who has played some receiver in the past –?? spent some time running with the wide receivers in 11-on-11 work. He and Tom Brady connected on the sweetest ball of the practice session, a deep ball that would have gone for a touchdown of 50-plus yards. It remains to be seen how much of it was because the Patriots were missing a handful of receivers and how much of it was because they wanted to see how much Slater might be able to contribute at the receiver position if needed. Regardless, it was interesting to see.

http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports...uffled-around-in-sweltering-practice-session/

 

[mgteich]

Slater is a fringe WR that excels on 4th down on ST. He may not be a great WR...but he offsets that with great ST play...



http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports...uffled-around-in-sweltering-practice-session/

Slater practices with the WR's because he is always active and is an emergency WR.

 

[Fencer]

If I must count Slater in any position group, it's at DB and NOT WR; so my answer is Yes,
we should keep 11 DBs.

Slater has taken snaps at WR in recent years, and even been a regular in certain packages in some seasons. It's been a long time since anything comparable was true of him at DB.

 

[captain stone]

...He may not be a great WR...

May not? Not only is he not a great WR, he is not a good WR, he's not even a below-average WR;
he is a horrible, useless WR.

 

[Zuma]

May not? Not only is he not a great WR, he is not a good WR, he's not even a below-average WR;
he is a horrible, useless WR.

You don't think he is a good WR do you...

 

[manxman2601]

Rich Hill has been watching the first pre-season game. This, regarding Jordan Richards, was interesting.

In just the first quarter, Jordan Richards played SS, single high FS, slot CB, sideline CB, and OLB.

Probably getting him a good look at every aspect of the defense but this probably shows that BB sees him as more than a one-role player. Richards playing single-high FS could put Harmon at risk, although I hope not.

 

[supafly]

Rich Hill has been watching the first pre-season game. This, regarding Jordan Richards, was interesting.



Probably getting him a good look at every aspect of the defense but this probably shows that BB sees him as more than a one-role player. Richards playing single-high FS could put Harmon at risk, although I hope not.

I've mentioned the possibility (albeit very small, as you mention) of having Harmon bumped off the roster as well.

We know McCourty, Chung, and Richards are all locks. We also assume ONE of either Wilson/Ebner. That makes four if they only keep one or the other.

Of course, the reality is that Harmon may have the 4th spot solidified, with the battle for 5 coming between the (mainly ST) matchup of Wilson vs. Ebner.

It's really all about 2/3 making it between Harmon/Wilson/Ebner, unless they only keep FOUR safeties. If that's the case, it will be 1/3 making it, with the determining factor likely being where Richards looks the best. That could/could not have something to do with moving him around and seeing what sticks.

 

[mihap]

No i dont think harmon is risk. i think that theyll play some packages, like Mcourty to CB, Harmon or Richards to FS, again depend on the situation...
and i v checked schedule and this year they have only two teams that have really good pass QB and that is week 5 Dallas and week 6 Colts, ok and manning week 12( BB is known for preparing his team to late november and december games so i dont worry to much). Last year 6weeks stretch was brutal, we didnt know that Bears would suck, than Manning, Luck, Stafford, Rodgers, Rivers. And our front 7 should be quite good.
So secondary will have some time to learn, while offense and front D should do the dirty work.
I have concern in offence, bout two G rookies, cause AFC east D-lines are really nasty, hope that both will learn fast, cause Stork seems to be really beasty

 

[supafly]

You don't think he is a good WR do you...

I think he's trying to tell us that he doesn't care for Slater as a WR

I mean...can you really blame him? We all know that Slater is a superb ST player and a leader in the LR, but he's just an emergency option when it comes to having any other position.

 

[mgteich]

I've mentioned the possibility (albeit very small, as you mention) of having Harmon bumped off the roster as well.

We know McCourty, Chung, and Richards are all locks. We also assume ONE of either Wilson/Ebner. That makes four if they only keep one or the other.

Of course, the reality is that Harmon may have the 4th spot solidified, with the battle for 5 coming between the (mainly ST) matchup of Wilson vs. Ebner.

It's really all about 2/3 making it between Harmon/Wilson/Ebner, unless they only keep FOUR safeties. If that's the case, it will be 1/3 making it, with the determining factor likely being where Richards looks the best. That could/could not have something to do with moving him around and seeing what sticks.

IMHO, Harmon is more likely to start than be cut.

 

[captain stone]

Rich Hill has been watching the first pre-season game. This, regarding Jordan Richards, was interesting.



Probably getting him a good look at every aspect of the defense but this probably shows that BB sees him as more than a one-role player. Richards playing single-high FS could put Harmon at risk, although I hope not.

Also probably trying to find a position at which he doesn't totally suck.

(Sorry for the snark, but…I think you know how I feel about the Richards pick.)

 

[manxman2601]

Also probably trying to find a position at which he doesn't totally suck.

(Sorry for the snark, but…I think you know how I feel about the Richards pick.)

Watching the highlights Rich Hill was posting on Twitter, I think you might end up being wrong on that. No disrespect intended but I'm sure we both hope for that.

 

[strngplyr]

It's highly unlikely but at the same time would not surprise me if the top 3 CB's in week one were Butler, Brown, and Roberts as the surprise.

He started the first preseason game opposite Butler probably not because he was viewed as the #2 corner, but as a test, and I think most would agree he scored pretty well in that test against a very talented WR group of Green Bay. He'll also (if healthy) be tested against Drew Brees and a talented NYG offense before the season starts.

The CB group after Butler (even including Butler, despite the hype) is filled with questions. Being a rookie and needing to learn should be the only things in Roberts way, and he appears to be learning quite well based on his limited snaps on Thursday and all of the (mostly) positive reports coming out of camp about him. He really is this years Butler, except more athletic.