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Eating Pot Roast- Exposing An Overrated and Flawed Run D

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The Denver defense stifled the Patriots run in the AFC championship game. In spite of missing Derek Wolfe, Von Miller, and various other pieces on defense. This year they also have a physical CB in Talib as well as TJ Ward that are not afraid to stick there nose in and stop the run. And somehow New England's rookie line is going to run all over them? Expert analysis from Football Outsiders that take into account various other components have Denver as the number 1 defensive line. The one aspect I am confident about tomorrow is the Patriots will struggle to run the football.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl

What rookie line do you speak of? Save our promising rookie center, the rest are vets. This is not the KC lineup. The veteran shift is why we've blocked better recently. When they are together Brady is protected considerably better.
 
And stats are stats are stats. Ill give you Denver is impressive against the run, but right in front of you is the strategy needed to beat that talent. This is how NE seems to blowout strong defenses every season. Game planning. But the rest of the nfl seems to think they're cheating...
 
The Denver defense stifled the Patriots run in the AFC championship game. In spite of missing Derek Wolfe, Von Miller, and various other pieces on defense. This year they also have a physical CB in Talib as well as TJ Ward that are not afraid to stick there nose in and stop the run. And somehow New England's rookie line is going to run all over them? Expert analysis from Football Outsiders that take into account various other components have Denver as the number 1 defensive line. The one aspect I am confident about tomorrow is the Patriots will struggle to run the football.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl

The game results will establish the veracity of that.

The Patriots as evolved, don't really have a "rookie" line. They have 4 established veterans that took them to a SB and three consecutive AFCCGs. They have replaced a weakness at C, where the incumbent, an accomplished movement player was undersized, shifting him to pulling Guard.

Wendell was exploited by several teams, including the Broncos is the one game that they won, of the two against the Pats.

The Pats replaced him with the drafted Rimington Trophy winning C, from the NCAA championship team, who is 25 lbs bigger, and more accomplished.

IMHO, the Broncos defensive statistics are exagerated, by the play from day 1, of the powerful Broncos Offense. The linebackers are injured,or inexperienced and undersized, and the secondary is injury prone, thin and smallish.

I grant that your DL is nominally better, but their stats are inflated by playing from ahead, as teams abandon the run and become one-dimensional passing every down, to catch up.
 
It is very impressive given their strength of schedule thus far. You can make an argument they are not the #1 defensive line, but they are most certainly in the top 5.
You realize Denver has faced teams missing a large majority of their offensive weapons during that stretch right? SOS is one thing, actuality another.

I'm not taking away what Denver has done. At the moment, I believe they are shading the Patriots and Cardinals for the best team in football but let's not pretend it's been against healthy opponents.
 
The terminology "rookie line" was incorrect. Me being a Broncos fan I am not aware of all the changes they have made over the course of this year. I will take your word for it. I also have seen how much better they have played over the course of the last few games. The Broncos are better in every defensive statistic this year VS. last year in spite of a harder schedule. Their defense will stop the run. The biggest unknown for me is how much pressure the Broncos can get on Brady. If this were the same defense as last year I would favor the Patriots in this game. I always try to look at the stats and try to remain as unbiased as possible.
 
I find it difficult to believe that given the proliferation of fine Defensive Lines in the NFL, Denver's is ranked number 1.

It isn't by talent. Pot Roast isn't a Probowler, nor is DeMarcus Ware the DeMarcus Ware of his yesteryear ProBowl days.

Miller is a great pass rusher; but isn't he an OLB?
 
The Denver defense stifled the Patriots run in the AFC championship game. In spite of missing Derek Wolfe, Von Miller, and various other pieces on defense. This year they also have a physical CB in Talib as well as TJ Ward that are not afraid to stick there nose in and stop the run. And somehow New England's rookie line is going to run all over them? Expert analysis from Football Outsiders that take into account various other components have Denver as the number 1 defensive line. The one aspect I am confident about tomorrow is the Patriots will struggle to run the football.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl

Listen, I know that as a Broncos fan you probably don't know the full story of NE's offensive line, but fwiw they are playing one rookie right now and that rookie is having a pretty damn good season. I also understand that as a Denver fan statistics are your only leg to stand on, but stats aren't exactly what I would call "expert analysis". It's also pretty clear to me that you don't have enough knowledge of the game to make an effective, accurate counterpoint to what I posted. You can drum up all the numbers you want and manipulate them however you chose to but what is put on film is simple truth. Your team has fatal flaws and they will be exposed. Whether that is tomorrow afternoon is to be seen but eventually they will be shown that I guarantee.
 
The terminology "rookie line" was incorrect. Me being a Broncos fan I am not aware of all the changes they have made over the course of this year. I will take your word for it. I also have seen how much better they have played over the course of the last few games. The Broncos are better in every defensive statistic this year VS. last year in spite of a harder schedule. Their defense will stop the run. The biggest unknown for me is how much pressure the Broncos can get on Brady. If this were the same defense as last year I would favor the Patriots in this game. I always try to look at the stats and try to remain as unbiased as possible.

Honestly, it's hard to gauge how good Denver's run D is and D truly is imo. I am not saying they are bad, but when your offense gives you the lead most of the time, it's easy to change stats. Tomorrow is a huge test for both teams, and will probably determine HFA throughout the playoffs.

Denver's d is good, but it's hard to say exactly how good.
 
And, fwiw, I am praying Del Rio is dumb enough to put Talib on Gronk.
 
It isn't by talent. Pot Roast isn't a Probowler, nor is DeMarcus Ware the DeMarcus Ware of his yesteryear ProBowl days.

Miller is a great pass rusher; but isn't he an OLB?
In fairness, what Knighton has put on film this season is really high level play. If he was on NE he'd be a fan favorite and I think better utilized by what is unquestionably a far more competent coaching staff.

Miller? Ohhhhh Miller. This year he's on my short list of candidates for the Clay Matthews Jr Most Overrated Player award. Why? Because he is literally Clay Matthews 2.0. You can run on that cat all day long, especially when he's playing out of position like he is this year.
 
I wanna see Jonas Gray run somebody's ass over and yes I think he can
 
If I am the Bronocs I am running out to the team bus and speeding off to another hotel before the Mass State Police show up a the one they're at now and arrest Von Miller for possession of marijuana with intent to deliver...this ain't Colaraddy, Vonathy Leary...poppin' molly and smoking blunts from your poundage stash ain't gonna cut it.
 
Great thread, good to have comment from a Broncos fan, welcome.

Got me all pumped up.
 
You realize Denver has faced teams missing a large majority of their offensive weapons during that stretch right? SOS is one thing, actuality another.

I'm not taking away what Denver has done. At the moment, I believe they are shading the Patriots and Cardinals for the best team in football but let's not pretend it's been against healthy opponents.

You play who you play. Denver has played a 5-4 Indy team, a 4-3 KC team, a 4-3 Seattle team, a 6-1 Arizona team, a 1-7 Jets team, a 4-3 San Fran team and a 5-3 San Diego team. They are a good team. A really good team. The Pats will have to bring their A game to win. I have always felt the Pats lived for games like this.
 
You play who you play. Denver has played a 5-4 Indy team, a 4-3 KC team, a 4-3 Seattle team, a 6-1 Arizona team, a 1-7 Jets team, a 4-3 San Fran team and a 5-3 San Diego team. They are a good team. A really good team. The Pats will have to bring their A game to win. I have always felt the Pats lived for games like this.
Who said Denver wasn't a good team? I agree regarding your play who you play comment. The simple point is, they beat hobbled teams. FTR, I apply the same mentality to the Patriots.
 
Pot Roast isn't a Probowler, nor is DeMarcus Ware the DeMarcus Ware of his yesteryear ProBowl days.

I hate to disagree with one more thing that you say, simply out of longtime respect for you--but Demarcus Ware is on pace for 16+ sacks this season.

To say that he's not "the Demarcus Ware of his yesteryear ProBowl days" seems very, very wrong. If anything, his change to DEN has seemed to have revived his career quite nicely.
 
If Iam the broncos, I dare the pats to run too and ignore PA .

Forgive me if I am incorrect, but this was primarily the Broncos gameplan in the AFCCG, no? It certainly seemed to work then, although I think we left some plays on the field.

It's a shame that in our postseason losses, the inability to run effectively always comes back to bite this team in the ass.
 
The Denver defense stifled the Patriots run in the AFC championship game. In spite of missing Derek Wolfe, Von Miller, and various other pieces on defense. This year they also have a physical CB in Talib as well as TJ Ward that are not afraid to stick there nose in and stop the run. And somehow New England's rookie line is going to run all over them? Expert analysis from Football Outsiders that take into account various other components have Denver as the number 1 defensive line. The one aspect I am confident about tomorrow is the Patriots will struggle to run the football.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl

First of all, welcome to the board, and thank you for attempting to take a fairly low-key and reasonable approach to the discussion. It's always great to have rational discussion with fans from opposing teams - it happens far too seldom. Second, while we are "fanatics" and that generally encompasses loathing for our rivals, Denver deserves tremendous credit for how they have performed this year, and for being as complete a team on both sides of the ball as we have seen in the NFL to date. So please take all of the discussion within that context.

I am a big Terrance Knighton fan, and if he hits the FA market in 2015 he will be one of my favorite targets for the Pats - it would only be "fair", after losing Talib to your team . As Jay mentioned, I think we would be huge fans of him if he were on our team, and he has done an outstanding job. Running against him will be a challenge. I am very intrigued to see how our rookie center, Bryan Stork, handles Knighton. Stork has the size and physicality to match up well against big DTs, something that Ryan Wendell struggled with. I like Wendell and Connolly much better as pulling guards. Knighton, Sylvester Williams (a player who I liked a lot in 2012 and mocked to the Pats several times, when he was flying under the radar) and Derek Wolfe are tough unit to run against, but I think that Denver's LB corps is vulnerable to the run IF the Pats' OL can open some holes. I also think it's unlikely that our OL will simply overpower your line, so the key will be using some of Denver's aggressiveness against them. Easier said than done, obviously.

I doubt that we'll "run wild" against Denver, but if we can create some running plays and set up play action, I think it will open up a lot for Brady compared to what he experienced in last year's AFCCG. The Denver D did indeed take away the run in that game, to their credit, but in that case that was probably their main objective going into the game given how the Pats' offense had to rely on Blount and the running game down the stretch in the absence of Gronk and any viable receiving threats other than Julian Edelman. This is a drastically different offense (with Gronk back plus Brandon LaFall and Tim Wright in addition to Edelman), and it will be a different challenge to stop the run without selling out against the passing attack. Last year's team had no vertical threat to stretch the field, allowing Denver to stack the run without much fear of getting burned. This year's team has much more ability to push the attack down the field. It will be a very different challenge for you guys.

I make no predictions, but I will be interested to see how this one plays out.
 
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Forgive me if I am incorrect, but this was primarily the Broncos gameplan in the AFCCG, no? It certainly seemed to work then, although I think we left some plays on the field.

It's a shame that in our postseason losses, the inability to run effectively always comes back to bite this team in the ass.
I thought the AFCCG idea was to stop our running game since blount and ridley were our supposed strength then.
 
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