Devin McCourty contract talks in progress

[BritPat]

I agree and was going to comment on that. He is doing just fine. Another year like last year would be super.

He's en elite Safety. But people think you need to post a lot of stats to prove it.

Then in the same breath they talk about how teams don't throw at Revis, showing how elite he is, failing to see the hypocrisy of their own views.

 

[deters]

I am a homer because DMC was an allpro player and deserved it? Which means the NFL coaches and players think he is elite. Please tell me you have more than some lame homer insult.

Again, what does a prime Ed Reed have to do with how DMC should be currently judged againt his peers. Talk about a strawman.

So your fine paying elite money for not elite results? Interesting. You must lose a lot of money on deals. Dmac has stats, and easily worth 6-7 million. Anything in the 8+ is a reach. He isn't irreplaceable.

 

[Bruins29]

I think his real value is less than 8M, and if it is that much, we'll have to think about it.

All pro safetys are clearly worth that amount unfortunately. Your list pretty much confirmed it.

Who is "we"? You have input into what BB should be paying players?

 

[Bruins29]

So your fine paying elite money for not elite results? Interesting. You must lose a lot of money on deals.

The problem is you dont understand what elite results are.

 

[Bruins29]

He's en elite Safety. But people think you need to post a lot of stats to prove it.

Then in the same breath they talk about how teams don't throw at Revis, showing how elite he is, failing to see the hypocrisy of their own views.

Its comical. The problem is that people just cant admit when they are wrong. Typical Bostonians. Instead of learning they would rather make a silly claim and when called on it go into full spinoramra mode to try to defend their claim.

Its actually entertaining.

 

[JMC00]

I like Devin a lot and he's impressed me the last couple of years, but too me he's a low-end tier II FS.

Tier I
Earl Thomas
Jarius Byrd

Tier II
Weddle
Goldshon
Devin
Griffin

-maybe between 4-7M and probably closer to 6-7 is market range

Weddle- APY -$8m
Goldson- APY- $8.25m
Devin-
Griffin- APY- $7m

You should do some research next time. You put him in with a group that all make $7m, $8m, and $8.25m APY respectively . Which if he is in the group you say he is makes his market between $7m-$8.25mm APY.

 

[deters]

The problem is you dont understand what elite results are.

Earl Thomas is elite. 3x Pro Bowl, 3x All pro - all in 3 straight seasons.

Dmac - 1 pro bowl (2010). 2x all pro (2010, 2013). Went 3 seasons before obtaining his next all pro status. That **** ain't elite.

He will get paid, but unless the redskins, raiders, or browns sign him, he ain't getting out of the 7 mill range. Btw, what does Ed Reed have to do with anything? Look at his accolades, his skill set and how much he could impact a game. He was ELITE and a HOF player. Dmac couldn't hold that guys f'n jockstrap yet you think he is elite.

 

[Deus Irae]

Isolated events of overpaying do not equal market values. If they did, all premier DE/DL would want $100 mill deals. Just because something can be purchased for a higher amount, doesn't make it worth that amount, nor does it set the market value for it. A $1 hershey bars market value is $1, not $20 if some fat kid desperately wants it.

Given that it wasn't just one isolated event, your argument is completely meaningless. You also are continuing in your failure to understand how markets work, since you're now moving on to worth.

One need only take a look at the price of that candy bar in a movie theater to understand the problem with your position.

 

[SalemPats]

Weddle- APY -$8m
Goldson- APY- $8.25m
Devin-
Griffin- APY- $7m

You should do some research next time. You put him in with a group that all make $7m, $8m, and $8.25m APY respectively . Which if he is in the group you say he is makes his market between $7m-$8.25mm APY.

Maybe it's the way I value players, unless you have Earl or Byrd I wouldn't pay any FS over 8M. I'm saying if it's over 7M, BB will have a difficult decision as we're close to the cap.

 

[Bruins29]

Earl Thomas is elite. 3x Pro Bowl, 3x All pro - all in 3 straight seasons.

Dmac - 1 pro bowl (2010). 2x all pro (2010, 2013). Went 3 seasons before obtaining his next all pro status. That **** ain't elite.

He will get paid, but unless the redskins, raiders, or browns sign him, he ain't getting out of the 7 mill range. Btw, what does Ed Reed have to do with anything? Look at his accolades, his skill set and how much he could impact a game. He was ELITE and a HOF player. Dmac couldn't hold that guys f'n jockstrap yet you think he is elite.

Does a prime Ed Reed play in todays game? You just dont get it do you.

 

[SalemPats]

The one part where Devin has leverage is unlike mini-tron if he goes on the open market I think he'll get the money he wants. So for BB and company, do we overpay a bit to keep him or lose him and move on.

 

[Bruins29]

I know what will happen. The pats will offer the 6 or 7 that some here think he is worth. Then DMC will bolt for 9. Then those same posters will cry that the "Pats are cheap"

And round and round it goes.

 

[JMC00]

BB will have a difficult decision as we're close to the cap.

Seriously you really should do some research. Miguel constructed a deal that has no increase on the cap this year and only takes up an additional $2.885m of what he is making now between '15-'18.

You want them to let McCourty go for $2.885m dollars? Do you rememeber how bad it was at the FS position for years before McCourty?

 

[deters]

Does a prime Ed Reed play in todays game? You just dont get it do you.

Dmac isn't even elite in the current crop.

Players better than Dmac
Weddle 2x Pro bowl, 4x all pro
Byrd 3x Pro bowl, 3x All pro

He ain't getting Byrd or Weddle money. If you were an admin, I'd do a permaban bet that he doesn't get an offer from the pats that crosses into the 8mill, hell even more than 7.5.

 

[strngplyr]

Teams overpaying do not equal the market. Because Haynesworth signed a $100 mill deal doesn't mean every top 5 defensive lineman is worth 80-100 million deals.

Whatever a team pays IS the market.

A player is worth what a team pays for them. Haynesworth was worth $100m to the Redskins, did he live up to it? No. That doesn't change the fact that they thought he was worth it.

Your opinion of the market is irrelevant, it changes every season, it changes with every contract. It's not something set in stone, it's ever evolving.

If we cut Wilfork and someone paid him $20,000,000/yr, he'd be worth it, because that team said so.

A team "overpaying" for a player DOES equal the market, because now other players have all of the leverage in the world, unless all 32 teams united and said "no", but that will never happen, because the types of players we're talking about, the kind that are good enough to discuss "what their market is", will always have a suitor, someone will always offer more than another team.


The only way McCourty plays for New England next season without making top dollar is if he chooses a hometown discount, which he very well may, he is, at least from the outside perspective, a great team player. It's always about the team and not himself from everything we see, however, the fact that he does everything the team asks also can backfire and make him even MORE valuable.

 

[strngplyr]

If you think the "rest of the world" thinks Dmac is elite, you are one blind ass homer. Ed Reed in his prime was elite, Dmac ain't no Ed Reed. He is very good, but he isn't a every game changing player that teams fear. He is an impact player, no bout though.

Ed Reed is a future Hall of Fame'r, so you're saying that unless you're guaranteed a spot in Canton 5 years after you retire you cannot be elite?

Because it sounds like you're saying that unless you're the next Ed Reed you aren't elite.

 

[ausbacker]

Dmac isn't even elite in the current crop.

Players better than Dmac
Weddle 2x Pro bowl, 4x all pro
Byrd 3x Pro bowl, 3x All pro

He ain't getting Byrd or Weddle money. If you were an admin, I'd do a permaban bet that he doesn't get an offer from the pats that crosses into the 8mill, hell even more than 7.5.

McCourty is an elite Safety. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge this and point to All-Pro selections and awarded contracts is the failure in your rationale. I generally consider the elite player at a position the top 3. Earl Thomas is the clear 1 with McCourty behind him at 2 because he's equally proficient playing deep or coming up to defend the run if necessary. Who you choose to put at 3 is preference.

Before 2014 I didn't consider Josh Gordon elite. His 2013 performance necessitated a change in that opinion.

 

[deters]

Given that it wasn't just one isolated event, your argument is completely meaningless. You also are continuing in your failure to understand how markets work, since you're now moving on to worth.

One need only take a look at the price of that candy bar in a movie theater to understand the problem with your position.

I don't understand? Weird because I just asked two people with Masters degrees in business who spent 30+ years in banking, and referred to a macroeconomics textbook and both back up my claims. I could also ask my professor who has an MBA if you like?

Market value = worth. Market value is what the purchaser pays for what he deems an items worth that a seller agrees on.

Movie theater controls the candy bar. Just like at a stadium with beer. They set the price because they control it. If you chose to buy a $7 beer, that's the market value (worth) to you, however, not to others who chose not to purchase it who see it's market value as less.

See, the Patriots are the buyer. They determine the market value and worth of Dmac. If he doesn't like their given value, he then can choose someone who sees his value as higher.

You will find out what his worth is to the NEP when they release an offer. Until then, don't even bother responding to me.

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't understand? Weird because I just asked two people with Masters degrees in business who spent 30+ years in banking, and referred to a macroeconomics textbook and both back up my claims. I could also ask my professor who has an MBA if you like?

Market value = worth. Market value is what the purchaser pays for what he deems an items worth that a seller agrees on.

Movie theater controls the candy bar. Just like at a stadium with beer. They set the price because they control it. If you chose to buy a $7 beer, that's the market value (worth) to you, however, not to others who chose not to purchase it who see it's market value as less.

See, the Patriots are the buyer. They determine the market value and worth of Dmac. If he doesn't like their given value, he then can choose someone who sees his value as higher.

You will find out what his worth is to the NEP when they release an offer.

Wait, are you playing the appeal to authority card again, after that nonsense you tried with Gronk?

 

[ausbacker]

I don't understand? Weird because I just asked two people with Masters degrees in business who spent 30+ years in banking, and referred to a macroeconomics textbook and both back up my claims. I could also ask my professor who has an MBA if you like?

Market value = worth. Market value is what the purchaser pays for what he deems an items worth that a seller agrees on.

Movie theater controls the candy bar. Just like at a stadium with beer. They set the price because they control it. If you chose to buy a $7 beer, that's the market value (worth) to you, however, not to others who chose not to purchase it who see it's market value as less.

See, the Patriots are the buyer. They determine the market value and worth of Dmac. If he doesn't like their given value, he then can choose someone who sees his value as higher.

You will find out what his worth is to the NEP when they release an offer. Until then, don't even bother responding to me.

That's all well and good but the Patriots don't determine the market for McCourty, the market does that. McCourty's representation will reference deals given to Free Safeties and make their pitch to the Patriots who will counter with their own valuation. The Patriots will offer a contract to McCourty according to their valuation of the position and his performance. If neither party is satisfied, McCourty will head to the open market. This appears to be your fundamental misunderstanding of the situation. An isolated factor is not the totality of factors.

The Patriots are one component of the market as a buyer, they are not the market.