Dont'a Hightower at DE?

[Ring 6]

When he was drafted BB was looking for a in the box SS, and a possible Rover/SS/hybrid LB, with a smidgeon more coverage ability than that job description. Then BB was forced by circumstances and had to use him as a deep cover S. Tavon did poorly in that role. He went into the doghouse. He has partially dug himself out and earning a place on the team by good play on ST.

Circumstances are such now, that the job and role for which he was drafted, may be re-opening.

First, I disagree. Part of the plusses on Wilson was that he played a lot of corner in college. He is not a huge in the box safety. He really wasn't playing 'deep cover safety' either, he was playing safety for the Patriots which requires you handle all the duties of a safety. BB has always required interchangable safeties and has never played a strong and free safety concept.
In any event, if your assumption were correct, thats not a good sign because we haven't had anyone who could do what you describe since he got here, so we went without rather than use him.

 

[AzPatsFan]

First, I disagree. Part of the plusses on Wilson was that he played a lot of corner in college. He is not a huge in the box safety. He really wasn't playing 'deep cover safety' either, he was playing safety for the Patriots which requires you handle all the duties of a safety. BB has always required interchangable safeties and has never played a strong and free safety concept.
In any event, if your assumption were correct, that's not a good sign because we haven't had anyone who could do what you describe since he got here, so we went without rather than use him.

You are correct that the Pats play RS, LS . But usually the LS is the majority of the time lined up against the TE. Occasionally it reverses,when the TE shifts outside the LOT.

When Tavon played as a rookie, BB was still groping for Safeties and Chung who was drafted as a more of a SS type was playing LS. So by default Tavon was assigned the RS which a majority of the time had deep FS responsibilities. That was a year before McCourty moved to RS full time, and Chung was let go to sign with the Eagles.

Since Tavon had played some CB in college, it was thought to inidcate a skosh more coverage ability than the typical 215-220# SS type,which he is.

The situation has change with Revis and Browner being more man CBs. and we will plaly more Cover 1 with DMAC deep. Tavon can go back to SS/Hybrid LB/ Rover back with hsi coverage responsibilities being TEs and RBs.

 

[mayoclinic]

I read somewhere this offseason that the Pats are considering using Hightower at DE at times in sub packages this coming season. With the addition of Anderson, he is even more of the odd man out at LB in sub packages.

He has played with his hand in the dirt for Bama at times and been successful at it (see videos below). I mean if the Pats are looking to get faster on defense, a sub package of Jones and Hightower at DE, Easley and Chris Jones inside, and Collins and Anderson at LBs would definitely achieve that goal.

He gets a sack at DE here


At the :18 market he plays DE in two plays in a row. Gets a pressure on the first and bats down the ball in the second. At the 2:20 mark he plays OLB and makes a good rush off the edge and pressures the QB. At the 3:04 mark, he rushes from the outside and gets a QB hit.

Looking back at Hightower's pre-draft numbers from 2012, I'm struck by 2 numbers in particular:

1. A 1.58 10 yard split. That suggests tremendous burst for a 6' 2 1/4" 265# guy. Compare that with Ryan Shazier (1.56), Von Miller (1.57), Jamie Collins (1.58), Jadeveon Clowney (1.59), Mario Williams (1.60), Robert Quinn (1.61), Jason Pierre-Paul (1.65), Chandler Jones (1.66) and Aldon Smith (1.66).

2. A 7.55 3-cone. That's abysmally bad - worse than OLs Joel Bitonio (7.37), Taylor Lewan (7.39), Nate Solder (7.44), Sebastian Vollmer (7.51) and Logan Mankins (7.54), and the same as John Urschel. The notoriously slow Brandon Spikes ran a 6.97 3-cone, in comparison. Hightower's 4.64 short shuttle was also ridiculously bad, and also worse than any of the OLs listed.

The simple interpretation: Hightower has terrific explosiveness and burst, and terrible lateral agility. That pretty much mirrors what I see on the field. To me, that suggests that he'd be much more effective as an edge rusher than playing in space, whether as a MLB or an OLB. Obviously, numbers don't tell the entire story (Jerod Mayo had a 1.50 10 yard split and a 7.31 3-cone in 2008), but in Hightower's case I think they are strikingly good/bad, and are consistent with his play on the field.

 

[Brady6]

Looking back at Hightower's pre-draft numbers from 2012, I'm struck by 2 numbers in particular:

1. A 1.58 10 yard split. That suggests tremendous burst for a 6' 2 1/4" 265# guy. Compare that with Ryan Shazier (1.56), Von Miller (1.57), Jamie Collins (1.58), Jadeveon Clowney (1.59), Mario Williams (1.60), Robert Quinn (1.61), Jason Pierre-Paul (1.65), Chandler Jones (1.66) and Aldon Smith (1.66).

2. A 7.55 3-cone. That's abysmally bad - worse than OLs Joel Bitonio (7.37), Taylor Lewan (7.39), Nate Solder (7.44), Sebastian Vollmer (7.51) and Logan Mankins (7.54), and the same as John Urschel. The notoriously slow Brandon Spikes ran a 6.97 3-cone, in comparison. Hightower's 4.64 short shuttle was also ridiculously bad, and also worse than any of the OLs listed.

The simple interpretation: Hightower has terrific explosiveness and burst, and terrible lateral agility. That pretty much mirrors what I see on the field. To me, that suggests that he'd be much more effective as an edge rusher than playing in space, whether as a MLB or an OLB. Obviously, numbers don't tell the entire story (Jerod Mayo had a 1.50 10 yard split and a 7.31 3-cone in 2008), but in Hightower's case I think they are strikingly good/bad, and are consistent with his play on the field.

Hightower is the complete opposite of Brandon Spikes who had a 1.75 10-yard split and a 6.97 3-cone time. I do not thing Hightower is as poor laterally as his 3-cone indicates however, I think that was a poor time, he ran it at his pro day; he did not do that drill at the combine. That aside I do agree that Hightower is probably best suited off the edge, I am not sure that is as a DE however, I really think his best position is a 4-3 SAM.

 

[Brady6]

You are correct that the Pats play RS, LS . But usually the LS is the majority of the time lined up against the TE. Occasionally it reverses,when the TE shifts outside the LOT.

When Tavon played as a rookie, BB was still groping for Safeties and Chung who was drafted as a more of a SS type was playing LS. So by default Tavon was assigned the RS which a majority of the time had deep FS responsibilities. That was a year before McCourty moved to RS full time, and Chung was let go to sign with the Eagles.

Since Tavon had played some CB in college, it was thought to inidcate a skosh more coverage ability than the typical 215-220# SS type,which he is.

The situation has change with Revis and Browner being more man CBs. and we will plaly more Cover 1 with DMAC deep. Tavon can go back to SS/Hybrid LB/ Rover back with hsi coverage responsibilities being TEs and RBs.

Tavon Wilson is not as bad as the masses describe him to be. The problem is that he was taken too early in the draft, if not for that people would not be leaving him off the roster in lieu of UDFA. He was injured and buried in the doghouse last season, but as a rookie, he had some moments when he played very well, particularly when paired with Devin McCourty, or in the “money” position. The two plays that people hang onto are the one in the Rams game and the Seahawks game. Both plays were on bootlegs with the QB out of the pocket and the WR running double moves, not surprising to see a rookie get beat on those types of plays. He still has a very good skillset and a knack for locating the football.

I actually like Tavon Wilson to beat out Harmon and Chung for the safety spot opposite McCourty on early downs.

 

[mayoclinic]

Hightower is the complete opposite of Brandon Spikes who had a 1.75 10-yard split and a 6.97 3-cone time. I do not thing Hightower is as poor laterally as his 3-cone indicates however, I think that was a poor time, he ran it at his pro day; he did not do that drill at the combine. That aside I do agree that Hightower is probably best suited off the edge, I am not sure that is as a DE however, I really think his best position is a 4-3 SAM.

You are probably right to some extent - those time are so ridiculously bad as to almost be absurd (hence the comparison with offensive linemen). But even so, they are consistent with Hightower's lack of lateral mobility and movement skills in space, which are clearly a major weakness in his game. I personally think at 255# he might be a bit more suited to playing SAM, but at 270# he is really too lumbering and needs to be a DE.

 

[Brady6]

You are probably right to some extent - those time are so ridiculously bad as to almost be absurd (hence the comparison with offensive linemen). But even so, they are consistent with Hightower's lack of lateral mobility and movement skills in space, which are clearly a major weakness in his game. I personally think at 255# he might be a bit more suited to playing SAM, but at 270# he is really too lumbering and needs to be a DE.

When he was drafted, I saw him in a role similar to Rob Ninkovich long term, sort of that hybrid 4-3 LE/3-4 LOLB. I have always felt the most comparable player to Hightower is Brooks out in SF. I completely agree that his lateral movement is a weakness in his game, I like the idea of him playing SAM in a 4-3 under lined up just off the line on the shoulder of the TE. This allows him to set the edge and rush the passer, last season playing the Will LB was not a good fit for him, but he did fill in admirably.

 

[Huckleberry1]

It is obviously very difficult to gauge where a player is at from clips from practices and interviews but going on that limited information the clips i saw of Hightower at OTA's and the interview with Curran he looked much leaner and faster and really looked like a true LB and not a DL conversion project. he still has the build to go to 275-280 if he wants or they ask him to but he may well be much better off (as well as the Patriots) staying at LB full time and I really think he is in for a big season. Overall this LB corps is as good as we have seen in a long time and I can't wait to see how their back 7 works in concert with each other. Smart talented football players all over this defense, this is going to be fun to watch. I am going to be really interested to see how Belichick sets these LB's up.

 

[Huckleberry1]

You are probably right to some extent - those time are so ridiculously bad as to almost be absurd (hence the comparison with offensive linemen). But even so, they are consistent with Hightower's lack of lateral mobility and movement skills in space, which are clearly a major weakness in his game. I personally think at 255# he might be a bit more suited to playing SAM, but at 270# he is really too lumbering and needs to be a DE.

I basically agree, he needs to be in the 255-260 range to be quick enough at LB, but from what I saw of him recently he really looks much leaner and he was moving really well. He did not look like he was anywhere near 275 from what I saw.

 

[willard]

I think we need Hightower at linebacker much more than DE. Not sure if he has the moves and the lean angle to be an effective rush DE.

 

[Marqui]

I basically agree, he needs to be in the 255-260 range to be quick enough at LB, but from what I saw of him recently he really looks much leaner and he was moving really well. He did not look like he was anywhere near 275 from what I saw.

Hey, you're right

I think we need Hightower at linebacker much more than DE. Not sure if he has the moves and the lean angle to be an effective rush DE.

Yeah, there's nothing DE about Hightower other than his size.

 

[mayoclinic]

I basically agree, he needs to be in the 255-260 range to be quick enough at LB, but from what I saw of him recently he really looks much leaner and he was moving really well. He did not look like he was anywhere near 275 from what I saw.

I would be thrilled with a sleeker, leaner Hightower who can move better in space and play LB, both attacking and dropping into zone coverage. I also agree that he looks a bit leaner in photos, though it's hard to tell without pads on. In the past, Hightower has said that the team wanted him at 270#, and that seems too heavy to be effective playing in space. I'll reserve judgment until training camp.

 

[Marqui]

In the past, Hightower has said that the team wanted him at 270#, and that seems too heavy to be effective playing in space. I'll reserve judgment until training camp.

I remember that too but after last year, that dream they had of him being the second coming of Adalius Thomas and moving like a gazelle even at 270 is clearly over. BB would need his head examined if he still wanted Hightower at 270 after how he looked in space last year.

 

[The Scrizz]

I basically agree, he needs to be in the 255-260 range to be quick enough at LB, but from what I saw of him recently he really looks much leaner and he was moving really well. He did not look like he was anywhere near 275 from what I saw.

Obviously Gymrat has been hired by the Pats and is working player by player to take off 10-15 lbs of fat and add 10-15 lbs of muscle.

 

[Brady6]

I would be thrilled with a sleeker, leaner Hightower who can move better in space and play LB, both attacking and dropping into zone coverage. I also agree that he looks a bit leaner in photos, though it's hard to tell without pads on. In the past, Hightower has said that the team wanted him at 270#, and that seems too heavy to be effective playing in space. I'll reserve judgment until training camp.

Buck(Leo)-Ninkovich
3-Tech-Easley
1-Tech-Wilfork
DE-Jones
Sam-Hightower
Mike-Mayo
Will-Collins

If we run a 4-3 over with this alignment I think that Hightower would be very effective coming down hill at the “40” 1-Gap between the 3-Tech and the Leo. He is very explosive and fast straight ahead.


Also I like the idea of Collins and Jones coming off the right side together.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

Reiss mentioned today that Hightower has lined up at the end of the line and rushed more often during OTAs.

 

[mayoclinic]

Reiss mentioned today that Hightower has lined up at the end of the line and rushed more often during OTAs.

Specifically:

2. Patriots 2012 first-round pick Dont’a Hightower, who is bigger than most linebackers at 6-foot-3 and 270 pounds, can sometimes seem out of place when chasing running backs downfield. He said as much Thursday, noting that organized team activities (a.k.a. passing camp) aren’t tailored to what he does best – getting physical when the pads come on. “I’m not a 7-on-7 [drills] person; I don’t like to chase [running back] Shane Vereen around.” So we took note during Thursday’s practice that Hightower was playing a bit more on the line of scrimmage, sometimes rushing off the right edge. When considering a starting linebacker trio of Jerod Mayo, Jamie Collins and Hightower in the base defense, I’ve previously projected Hightower to the middle in aBrandon Spikes-type downhill thumper role. But the Patriots coaches might see it differently, preferring to keep signal-caller Mayo in the middle, flanked by Collins and Hightower. That would give Hightower a chance to play on the line of scrimmage at times in an outside linebacker/defensive end-type role, and potentially rush the passer more. That could be best suited to his skill set, even though we haven’t seen Hightower do much of that the past two years.

Quick-hit thoughts around NFL & Pats - espnBoston

 

[pencilneckgeek]

I had gone along with Reiss that Hightower would be at the Mike until somebody sharper than me suggested that he would fit better at the Sam. I like the look of the defense with Hightower off Nink's inside shoulder. Those two and Tommy Kelly would make for some tough sledding on strong-side runs. How they get incorporated into the sub defense remains an open question and should make for some interesting viewing.