My Blueprint for the Defense

[mayoclinic]

With pro days about to start tomorrow, my current top 10 defensive prospect ranking for the Pats looks something like this:

1. Aaron Donald, DT, Pittsburgh (worth a trade up).
2a. Khalil Mack, DE/OLB, Buffalo.
2b. Jadeveon Clowney, DE, South Carolina.
4. Ryan Shazier, LB, Ohio St.
5a. Anthony Barr, DE/OLB, UCLA.
5b. Ra'Shede Hageman, DT, Minnesota.
7. Kony Ealy, DE, Missouri. Other than Clowney, the only guy in this class who has the potential to rush form either side, play inside, or drop into coverage. The problem is, he has as much chance of becoming Jamal Anderson as he does Greg Hardy.
8a. Calvin Pryor, S, Louisville.
8b. Kyle Fuller, DB, Virginia Tech.
10. Dominique Easley, DT, Florida. He'd be top 5 on this list if not for coming off an injury.

My current top ten for the Patriots on defense goes like this:

1) Aaron Donald DL - Interior pressure on the D-line may be the most critical piece for their defense going forward and there is not a better prospect to give them this dimension.

2) Anthony Barr LB - I love Barr's upside and think he could well turn out to be the best LB in this draft.

3) K. Mack LB - A close call with Barr but another LB i would love to see in NE but he won't be available.

4) Jadaveon Clowney DE - I have major reservations about Clowney and think he could be a spectacular bust if drafted high, I don't believe he has the work ethic but it would be impossible to pass on the physical talent if he did a nose dive to them.

5) CJ Mosely LB -Mosley can play anywhere at LB and would be able to contribute immediately.

6) Louis Nix DT - I have concerns about Nix health but with all the questions regarding Wilfork he would provide them with a talented young DT to fill that hole if Wilfork doesn't return to form.

7) Calvin Pryor - Clinton-Dix is the better cover guy but Pryor is the hitter we all want in the middle of their secondary.

8) Darqueze Dennard - CB is not the priority but if Talib leaves then it will be more of a need.

9) Kony Ealy DL - Ealy is more of a 4-3 DE than some of the other prospects but he could fit in this defense as a rotational player with Jones and Ninkovich.

10) Justin Gilbert CB - Like with Dennard I am not high on a CB in the first but this is where Gilbert fits for me.


Off The Board for me: Ryan Shazier and Ra'Shede Hagemann. Shazier is simply not a fit for the Patriots imo, he's too small too even play LB for them imo, and I wouldn't spend a 1st on a DL with a seriously questionable motor, and Hagemann is just that from all I hear, great when he feels like playing but that is rare.

So we agree on Donald as the top prospect who could impact the Pats, we both have Clowney/Mack/Barr in the top 5, and and we both have Calvin Pryor and Kony Ealy in the 2nd 5. We disagree about Shazier/Hageman/Fuller (me) and Nix/Mosley (you). I take Hageman's athleticism and versatility over Nix's run stopping, even though he has risk; and I take Shazier's explosiveness, athleticism and versatility over Mosley's smarts and field generalship (especially with rumors of possible medical concerns).

I personally didn't include pure CBs like Dennard and Gilbert, who would get consideration if Talib leaves and isn't replaced. Kyle Fuller has the versatility to play either CB or safety.

 

[manxman2601]

7) Calvin Pryor - Clinton-Dix is the better cover guy but Pryor is the hitter we all want in the middle of their secondary.

So a return to the Brandon Meriweather/Patrick Chung days.

 

[everlong]

4) Jadaveon Clowney DE - I have major reservations about Clowney and think he could be a spectacular bust if drafted high, I don't believe he has the work ethic but it would be impossible to pass on the physical talent if he did a nose dive to them.

I think he's going to be like another Houston first overall pick Mario Williams. He'll flash, he'll tease with spectacular plays but he'll be overrated. He'll probably even get a huge second contract from a team like the Bills trying to make a splash. You give Tedy Bruschi that body and he becomes the Jerry Rice of defensive ends where the production is so great nobody else is in the conversation for the GOAT.

 

[everlong]

So a return to the Brandon Meriweather/Patrick Chung days.

I've come around to your view on Pryor. He's flashy and I think that's why a lot people like him.

 

[Huckleberry1]

So we agree on Donald as the top prospect who could impact the Pats, we both have Clowney/Mack/Barr in the top 5, and and we both have Calvin Pryor and Kony Ealy in the 2nd 5. We disagree about Shazier/Hageman/Fuller (me) and Nix/Mosley (you). I take Hageman's athleticism and versatility over Nix's run stopping, even though he has risk; and I take Shazier's explosiveness, athleticism and versatility over Mosley's smarts and field generalship (especially with rumors of possible medical concerns).

I personally didn't include pure CBs like Dennard and Gilbert, who would get consideration if Talib leaves and isn't replaced. Kyle Fuller has the versatility to play either CB or safety.

Yep, that pretty much sums it up. Donald has been the big surprise for me, i didn't have him in the first round a month ago and now I have him as the top defensive player in the draft for them. I would have concerns with his ability to handle the really big OL but he is almost unstoppable as an inside pass rusher and i covet that over everything else.

As corners go the one who causes me the most confusion is Verrett, he is off the charts athletically but i am really tired of small corners, however when you watch him at the combine he is an absolute freak athletically. Depending upon how the first falls i can see him getting some consideration.


I love the topic though, as it starts to give a real sense of who they can actually take in the first. they aren't getting 1-5 but depending upon the list they could conceivably be in a position to get one of the player's we have after that, and it is always interesting to lock down the choices. At this point that is how i would take them defensively but i am sure that will change some going forward.

 

[Huckleberry1]

So a return to the Brandon Meriweather/Patrick Chung days.

If you are going to equate being a hitter with sucking then I guess so Manx, Up until now i really hadn't heard that Pryor sucked. On the other hand I suppose i could equate taking Shazier with Gary Guyton and get the same result. If you don't like him that's fine but i doubt everyone feels he is going to suck.

 

[manxman2601]

If you are going to equate being a hitter with sucking then I guess so Manx, Up until now i really hadn't heard that Pryor sucked. On the other hand I suppose i could equate taking Shazier with Gary Guyton and get the same result. If you don't like him that's fine but i doubt everyone feels he is going to suck.

That's the type of player I think he is. He's just OK. No great range in coverage, misses tackles too often, too interested in making the hit and not breaking up the pass. He's OK as a second rounder but I really don't like him in the first.

 

[Huckleberry1]

That's the type of player I think he is. He's just OK. No great range in coverage, misses tackles too often, too interested in making the hit and not breaking up the pass. He's OK as a second rounder but I really don't like him in the first.

I have no problem with that manx and it could be that with further information i come to the same conclusion but right now that's how my list comes out and i wasn't looking to argue about just to put it out there when i told mayo that my list would look different than his, at which point i felt i should post one rather than just throw that without taking any position. That is pretty much the same way i feel about Shazier, i think he is a poor fit for the patriots and a second round talent.

 

[mayoclinic]

Profile on Lamarr Houston from Big Cat Country:

Jaguars free agency 2014: Lamarr Houston profile - Big Cat Country

While Houston would be an upgrade over Tyson Alualu, I'm not sure it would be significant enough to warrant the $$$, but you never know. But I like Houston for the Pats. He could share time with Rob Ninkovich at the LDE position (with Ninkovich also getting some snaps at RDE) and could kick inside. He's a consistent player who is strong against the run and generates a lot of pressure. He wouldn't be a flashy as Michael Johnson, but he would be more versatile and would probably be a good fit. Tommy Kelly might be a selling point in terms of convincing him that life would be better with the Pats than on a team like Jacksonville.

Oakland apparently will not tag Houston:

Raiders not expected to tag Lamarr Houston | ProFootballTalk

I think he'd be a great fit.

 

[zimmy]

Could Houston play the 5 tech in the 3-4? He'd be a DE in the 4-3? Would he hold up at DT? He's kind of a tweener.

I do like him though. Offers some position versatility.

 

[patfanken]

Now, now. I don't think it was meant that way.

But it's always funny when someone waltzes in and preaches an idea which has been discussed for ages. It was in the OP from 4 weeks ago, but I've been suggesting it for much longer.

Some comments on the some of the comments made on my comment.

1. Mea Culpa to OTG for spending too much time for the start of this off season on the main board. I should have known better that the more reasonable among us would be found on the Draft board. I should have know that what seemed so obvious about Wilfolk's contractual future to me, would be equally obvious to the astute minds here. The comment that offended OTG was meant for the children of the big board. I simply forgot that my audience here would be the adults

2.I know its been a few days, but I wanted to continue the discussion with Mayo about how differently we evaluate Dante Hightower. I think we both agree that his lack of explosiveness has been an issue for both of us. Its something we've both commented on several times over the last 2 years. He's never shown the same explosiveness I saw in his highlight tape. However were you don't see an upside, I still do. Here's why.

a. At 270lb, Hightower ran a 4.7 40 and had a 32" vertical. Those are explosive numbers for a big man

b. In his first year, it was clear (at least to me) that playing a new position, in a new defense, using a new language, while making the jump from college to the NFL, affected his play in his rookie year. I think he played much more cautiously, and had a lot fewer opportunities to simply cut loose and be explosive.

c. In his second year, I thought when he was forced to take on the duties of calling the adjustments, it really affected his play negatively. I thought the fact that he was moved from the outside to the inside often, also affected him.

d. I think with both Collins and Mayo set to play OLB, and him projected to play the Mike from the get go, to go along with this being his 3rd year in the system; Hightower will find a comfort and confidence level that will allow more his "explosive" potential to become more apparent.

e. I think we can all agree that the level of Hightower's play drastically improved over the last quarter of the season. Personally I think there is a good chance that he will up his level of play to an even higher level this season, and be the player we both thought he would be when he was drafted.

That could be just me being optimistic, but I'm basing it on more than "just a feeling"

3. I'd like to keep the discussion going on my thoughts of using Jamie Collins, less as a situational edge rusher, and more of the "hybrid S/LB" that's being discussed. who could be used as your "big hitter" in the secondary. An exception DB-like blitzer in certain coverages as well as just a cover LB.

That will allow the Pats to keep form flopping their S's and better disguise their defenses. Besides in today's NFL it seems like one dimensional SS's are a thing of the past.

4. Assuming the Pats are going to get at least one comp pick, we are going to have 8 picks in this draft. We were the 2nd youngest team in the NFL last season, so I don't feel we need, nor is there room for 8 more rookie bodies. That's not to mention that our success in finding quality UDFA's means it's likely that at least one will make the roster every year.

To that end, I repeat the call for us to find a DT who can be good enough to start. Find a TE who can be good enough get regular snaps. Find an offensive lineman who can start within 3 years and be a quality back up right now. And find a speed LB who can play special teams and be developed into someone who can play in situational defenses down the road.

As far as the rest of those picks go, I want to use them to either move up to fill those 4 areas mentioned above, or used to grab high risk/reward players at any position.

5. Except at TE where we really need to add at least one vet FA TE (ie Scott Chandler), adding a quality FA DE or DT or LB will mitigate the needs mentioned in the draft. IMHO DT is the most critical need in the Pats draft. As the off season goes on, we have about 60 days to discuss the dual questions of which DT best fits what the Pats need, and who will be there at 29.

 

[mayoclinic]

He will join us or die.

My Lord, I feel a great disturbance in the Force:

Browns use transition tag on center Alex Mack | ProFootballTalk

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

My Lord, I feel a great disturbance in the Force:

Browns use transition tag on center Alex Mack | ProFootballTalk

I think Lord Vader made it clear where he stands on this issue. It's likely Ray Farmer is being Force Choked right now.

 

[mayoclinic]

Some comments on the some of the comments made on my comment.

1. Mea Culpa to OTG for spending too much time for the start of this off season on the main board. I should have known better that the more reasonable among us would be found on the Draft board. I should have know that what seemed so obvious about Wilfolk's contractual future to me, would be equally obvious to the astute minds here. The comment that offended OTG was meant for the children of the big board. I simply forgot that my audience here would be the adults

No mea culpas necessary. Always happy to have your insights.

2.I know its been a few days, but I wanted to continue the discussion with Mayo about how differently we evaluate Dante Hightower. I think we both agree that his lack of explosiveness has been an issue for both of us. Its something we've both commented on several times over the last 2 years. He's never shown the same explosiveness I saw in his highlight tape. However were you don't see an upside, I still do. Here's why.

a. At 270lb, Hightower ran a 4.7 40 and had a 32" vertical. Those are explosive numbers for a big man

b. In his first year, it was clear (at least to me) that playing a new position, in a new defense, using a new language, while making the jump from college to the NFL, affected his play in his rookie year. I think he played much more cautiously, and had a lot fewer opportunities to simply cut loose and be explosive.

c. In his second year, I thought when he was forced to take on the duties of calling the adjustments, it really affected his play negatively. I thought the fact that he was moved from the outside to the inside often, also affected him.

d. I think with both Collins and Mayo set to play OLB, and him projected to play the Mike from the get go, to go along with this being his 3rd year in the system; Hightower will find a comfort and confidence level that will allow more his "explosive" potential to become more apparent.

e. I think we can all agree that the level of Hightower's play drastically improved over the last quarter of the season. Personally I think there is a good chance that he will up his level of play to an even higher level this season, and be the player we both thought he would be when he was drafted.

That could be just me being optimistic, but I'm basing it on more than "just a feeling"

I'm not against Hightower, and I pretty much agree with everything you say. He had a learning curve year 1, and he was hurt part of the season; year 2 he was thrown way too early into the leadership role, and played horribly out of position at WILL. He improved considerably when he moved to MIKE, which is a much better position for him.

I think Hightower will be a solid player for us, and he showed decent zone coverage ability. However, I don't think he is terribly explosive, I don't think he is terribly mobile (the 40 time doesn't mean much to me) and I don't think his ceiling is very high. His vertical of 33" and his broad jump of 9'9" aren't particularly indicative of an explosive player - not bad numbers but not particularly impressive. Those numbers aren't always indicative, but I don't see particular explosiveness in Hightower's game. I hope he'll prove me wrong.

3. I'd like to keep the discussion going on my thoughts of using Jamie Collins, less as a situational edge rusher, and more of the "hybrid S/LB" that's being discussed. who could be used as your "big hitter" in the secondary. An exception DB-like blitzer in certain coverages as well as just a cover LB.

That will allow the Pats to keep form flopping their S's and better disguise their defenses. Besides in today's NFL it seems like one dimensional SS's are a thing of the past.

I think Jamie Collins is a mismatch wherever he lines up. His most natural position is 4-3 SAM, but I hope he gets used both in a LEO/sub rusher role and as a hybrid LB/S as well. I think that he could be even more effective in this role if we had another player at the second level who could also do some of this (Ryan Shazier or Christian Jones, for example). Then it would be very difficult for opposing defenses to figure out how to match up. I'd personally rather see Mayo back at MLB and have Shazier/Jones at WILL instead of Hightower; but that's JMO.

4. Assuming the Pats are going to get at least one comp pick, we are going to have 8 picks in this draft. We were the 2nd youngest team in the NFL last season, so I don't feel we need, nor is there room for 8 more rookie bodies. That's not to mention that our success in finding quality UDFA's means it's likely that at least one will make the roster every year.

To that end, I repeat the call for us to find a DT who can be good enough to start. Find a TE who can be good enough get regular snaps. Find an offensive lineman who can start within 3 years and be a quality back up right now. And find a speed LB who can play special teams and be developed into someone who can play in situational defenses down the road.

As far as the rest of those picks go, I want to use them to either move up to fill those 4 areas mentioned above, or used to grab high risk/reward players at any position.

I wouldn't make any judgments about how many rookies we can fit on the roster. The league is getting younger, partly because the demands of the salary cap make it more cost effective to swap JAG veterans for less highly paid guys on their rookie contract. I think you draft all the talent you can that fits your team and your plan, and then work from there. The position battles will sort themselves out.

Your position targets are reasonable ones for now, depending on what we do in FA.

5. Except at TE where we really need to add at least one vet FA TE (ie Scott Chandler), adding a quality FA DE or DT or LB will mitigate the needs mentioned in the draft. IMHO DT is the most critical need in the Pats draft. As the off season goes on, we have about 60 days to discuss the dual questions of which DT best fits what the Pats need, and who will be there at 29.

As I've said, what we do in FA will have a big impact on the draft. Besides our own key players to resign, I'd like to see at least one UFA DL signed - either a DT like Linval Joseph, a DE/DT like Lamarr Houston or Corey Wootton, or a DE like Michael Johnson (other options are obviously available, depending on the price range). I would be happy to see a FA TE or interior lineman added as well.

Things should get clearer in the next 2-3 weeks.

 

[Off The Grid]

He will join us or die.

Vader is back!! Yes!! :rocker:

 

[Off The Grid]

Oakland apparently will not tag Houston:

Raiders not expected to tag Lamarr Houston | ProFootballTalk

I think he'd be a great fit.

I don't advocate signing FA's except at Discount, but that is one signing that wouldn't make me cringe. :thumb:

 

[Off The Grid]

I should have known better that the more reasonable among us would be found on the Draft board. I should have know that what seemed so obvious about Wilfolk's contractual future to me, would be equally obvious to the astute minds here.

A truly classy ~ and amusing because true ~ statement. Props, Brother Ken!!

The General Population of any Board can poison anyone's perception of mankind!! Beware, Brothers!!

 

[mayoclinic]

Oliver Thomas of NEPatriotsDraft has recent profiles on Ra'Shede Hageman and Stephon Tuitt, 2 scheme-diverse guys who could fit for the Pats at 29:

2014 NFL Draft Close-Up: Minnesota Defensive Tackle Ra?Shede Hageman | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2014 NFL Draft

2014 NFL Draft Close-Up: Notre Dame Defensive Lineman Stephon Tuitt | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2014 NFL Draft

Tuitt certainly comes across sounding like the more prototypical BB 1st round draft pick, though Hageman probably has a higher ceiling.

 

[ATippett56]

Fixed it...

When is Tom Brady's funeral scheduled?

 

[manxman2601]

When is Tom Brady's funeral scheduled?

Hopefully after the draft we'll be able to say that BB "fixed it".