My Blueprint for the Defense

[All22PatsFan]

I've been watching a ton of Harmon film recently, so I will share some of my thoughts.
- Good tackler hitter, He rarley misses and tackles low
- Fits 2 Deep safety role or cover 2 mold well
- Doesn't have the quickness of Gregory to play in a robber role
- Average Man coverage ability
- Provides decent run support
- He doesn't have great closing speeds but he gets to the ball on time
- Calm player
- Good at recognizing plays

I think he should be the starter next year, he doesn't do anything great but he won't be a liability. I am guessing the Pats play more 2 deep safety looks. Harmon could play man in Cover-1 looks, but he doesn't have the quickness and cod to play as a robber. He will be an upgrade over Gregory in Cover-2 looks though. It would be nice to see Tavon Wilson play some dime LB aswell, he matches up with TEs very nicely. I don't see Safety as a need, however they could use a 5th-6th rounder as a backup.

 

[patfanken]

I've been watching a ton of Harmon film recently, so I will share some of my thoughts.
- Good tackler hitter, He rarley misses and tackles low
- Fits 2 Deep safety role or cover 2 mold well
- Doesn't have the quickness of Gregory to play in a robber role
- Average Man coverage ability
- Provides decent run support
- He doesn't have great closing speeds but he gets to the ball on time
- Calm player
- Good at recognizing plays

I think he should be the starter next year, he doesn't do anything great but he won't be a liability. I am guessing the Pats play more 2 deep safety looks. Harmon could play man in Cover-1 looks, but he doesn't have the quickness and cod to play as a robber. He will be an upgrade over Gregory in Cover-2 looks though. It would be nice to see Tavon Wilson play some dime LB aswell, he matches up with TEs very nicely. I don't see Safety as a need, however they could use a 5th-6th rounder as a backup.

This is a good read on Harmon. Thank you. The comment that I highlighted is the reason I responded, because that is precisely the kind of player that every winning team needs.

As much as everyone wants, and some people demand, you can't have 'all pros' at every position, or even half of them for that matter. Having a lot of guys like Harmon who "won't be a liability" are critically important to good teams. I never understood why solid but not great payers, are constantly being raked over the coals here for not being exceptional.

 

[Huckleberry1]

What part about "NASCAR line" do you not understand? It's not a base defense.

The post made no mention about it as a sub package and the discussion overall has been about getting a faster and more aggressive defense. Either way I wouldn't want Collins and Shazier going up against tackles.

 

[mayoclinic]

The post made no mention about it as a sub package and the discussion overall has been about getting a faster and more aggressive defense. Either way I wouldn't want Collins and Shazier going up against tackles.

The post most certainly did:

I could get on board with this. A nascar line of Collins -- Chandler Jones -- Donald -- Shazier would be pure havoc.

The term "NASCAR package" was coined by the Giants' defensive line in 2011 and refers specifically to a sub package in which you attempt to maximize speed - as the name implies - on the defensive line for pass rushing purposes, usually by moving defensive ends inside and putting smaller speed rushers outside - pretty much what MHTK describes. By definition it's not a base defensive scheme, and it deliberately sacrifices run stopping ability for explosiveness in getting to the passer, so your original comment that it would be ineffective at stopping the run wasn't really applicable. Many teams have adopted and adapted NASCAR principles and approaches, including the Patriots - BB even used Kyle Arrington as a sub-rushing DE at times in 2011.

For a good description of the basic NASCAR principles and the Seahawk's adaptation of it (which they used extensively), see:

The Seahawks' NASCAR defensive package, part I - Field Gulls

Jamie Collins and Ryan Shazier would be hellish speed match ups for any offensive line to deal with on 3rd and long situations, especially with a combination like Chandler Jones and Aaron Donald inside. Maximal disruption and ability to get to the QB quickly. I assume that was MHTK's original point - that in addition to providing more speed in base packages, that adding Donald and Shazier would allow for a nasty NASCAR sub package as well.

 

[Huckleberry1]

The post most certainly did:



The term "NASCAR package" was coined by the Giants' defensive line in 2011 and refers specifically to a sub package in which you attempt to maximize speed - as the name implies - on the defensive line for pass rushing purposes, usually by moving defensive ends inside and putting smaller speed rushers outside - pretty much what MHTK describes. By definition it's not a base defensive scheme, and it deliberately sacrifices run stopping ability for explosiveness in getting to the passer, so your original comment that it would be ineffective at stopping the run wasn't really applicable. Many teams have adopted and adapted NASCAR principles and approaches, including the Patriots - BB even used Kyle Arrington as a sub-rushing DE at times in 2011.

For a good description of the basic NASCAR principles and the Seahawk's adaptation of it (which they used extensively), see:

The Seahawks' NASCAR defensive package, part I - Field Gulls

Jamie Collins and Ryan Shazier would be hellish speed match ups for any offensive line to deal with on 3rd and long situations, especially with a combination like Chandler Jones and Aaron Donald inside. Maximal disruption and ability to get to the QB quickly. I assume that was MHTK's original point - that in addition to providing more speed in base packages, that adding Donald and Shazier would allow for a nasty NASCAR sub package as well.

I am not going to waste time arguing semantics but as I said the post made no mention of it as a sub package, however you did, he simply said NASCAR line. I had heard the term used for the Patriots offense in 2013 but not for defense, which probably means I don't spend too much time reading about football.

That said I stand by what I said earlier, no way in hell would I want Collins and Shazier in particular at DE.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

I assume that was MHTK's original point - that in addition to providing more speed in base packages, that adding Donald and Shazier would allow for a nasty NASCAR sub package as well.

Your assumption is correct.

 

[Off The Grid]

"I am not going to waste time arguing semantics but as I said the post made no mention of it as a sub package, however you did, he simply said NASCAR line."



"He made no mention of Water, referring only to that wet stuff that the Oceans seem to have in abundance."

The NasCar is by definition a Sub Package.

 

[Huckleberry1]

"I am not going to waste time arguing semantics but as I said the post made no mention of it as a sub package, however you did, he simply said NASCAR line."



"He made no mention of Water, referring only to that wet stuff that the Oceans seem to have in abundance."

The NasCar is by definition a Sub Package.

And as i said Grid, i was not aware of that, the only prior reference I was aware of was that of the 2013 Patriots fast paced offense.

 

[Off The Grid]

Fair enough, Bro. I'll withdraw, now.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Fair enough, Bro. I'll withdraw, now.

It's all good Grid, I love what you bring to these forums and your views on the team and draft, I just don't pay as much attention to football as i once did.

 

[Huckleberry1]

The post most certainly did:



The term "NASCAR package" was coined by the Giants' defensive line in 2011 and refers specifically to a sub package in which you attempt to maximize speed - as the name implies - on the defensive line for pass rushing purposes, usually by moving defensive ends inside and putting smaller speed rushers outside - pretty much what MHTK describes. By definition it's not a base defensive scheme, and it deliberately sacrifices run stopping ability for explosiveness in getting to the passer, so your original comment that it would be ineffective at stopping the run wasn't really applicable. Many teams have adopted and adapted NASCAR principles and approaches, including the Patriots - BB even used Kyle Arrington as a sub-rushing DE at times in 2011.

For a good description of the basic NASCAR principles and the Seahawk's adaptation of it (which they used extensively), see:

The Seahawks' NASCAR defensive package, part I - Field Gulls

Jamie Collins and Ryan Shazier would be hellish speed match ups for any offensive line to deal with on 3rd and long situations, especially with a combination like Chandler Jones and Aaron Donald inside. Maximal disruption and ability to get to the QB quickly. I assume that was MHTK's original point - that in addition to providing more speed in base packages, that adding Donald and Shazier would allow for a nasty NASCAR sub package as well.

FTR I do appreciate the information mayo, I wasn't aware of that reference, and i think part of that stems from a long term self imposed refusal to watch, listen to, or read anything at all about the Giants, and i still turn away from any highlight that even remotely has to do with the Patriots two


I'm going to have to stop here




It's getting too emotional





I could ruin my laptop





not the girl

 

[mayoclinic]

With pro days about to start tomorrow, my current top 10 defensive prospect ranking for the Pats looks something like this:

1. Aaron Donald, DT, Pittsburgh (worth a trade up).
2a. Khalil Mack, DE/OLB, Buffalo.
2b. Jadeveon Clowney, DE, South Carolina.
4. Ryan Shazier, LB, Ohio St.
5a. Anthony Barr, DE/OLB, UCLA.
5b. Ra'Shede Hageman, DT, Minnesota.
7. Kony Ealy, DE, Missouri. Other than Clowney, the only guy in this class who has the potential to rush form either side, play inside, or drop into coverage. The problem is, he has as much chance of becoming Jamal Anderson as he does Greg Hardy.
8a. Calvin Pryor, S, Louisville.
8b. Kyle Fuller, DB, Virginia Tech.
10. Dominique Easley, DT, Florida. He'd be top 5 on this list if not for coming off an injury.

 

[everlong]

10. Dominique Easley, DT, Florida. He'd be top 5 if not for coming off an injury.

Y! SPORTS

 

[mayoclinic]

Thought of the day, from another poster on another thread in another forum:

The powerhouse 2003/4 SB champ Patriots were strong in the core, right through the middle. DL, LB and SS. Add OC to that list so that Brady has time to find whomever and that's where the 2014 Pats need to improve to beat playoff elite teams.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...fa-sign-beast-thread-page2.html#.UxOVCJGwPud (post #19)

Our defense this year was probably weakest up the middle with the injuries at DD and Gregory being adequate but not much more. In past years, safety play has been a huge weakness up the middle.

I also refer those interested to the following discussion:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...8-building-team-inside-out.html#.UxOVjJGwPuc

 

[mayoclinic]

Profile on Lamarr Houston from Big Cat Country:

Jaguars free agency 2014: Lamarr Houston profile - Big Cat Country

While Houston would be an upgrade over Tyson Alualu, I'm not sure it would be significant enough to warrant the $$$, but you never know. But I like Houston for the Pats. He could share time with Rob Ninkovich at the LDE position (with Ninkovich also getting some snaps at RDE) and could kick inside. He's a consistent player who is strong against the run and generates a lot of pressure. He wouldn't be a flashy as Michael Johnson, but he would be more versatile and would probably be a good fit. Tommy Kelly might be a selling point in terms of convincing him that life would be better with the Pats than on a team like Jacksonville.

 

[Huckleberry1]

With pro days about to start tomorrow, my current top 10 defensive prospect ranking for the Pats looks something like this:

1. Aaron Donald, DT, Pittsburgh (worth a trade up).
2a. Khalil Mack, DE/OLB, Buffalo.
2b. Jadeveon Clowney, DE, South Carolina.
4. Ryan Shazier, LB, Ohio St.
5a. Anthony Barr, DE/OLB, UCLA.
5b. Ra'Shede Hageman, DT, Minnesota.
7. Kony Ealy, DE, Missouri. Other than Clowney, the only guy in this class who has the potential to rush form either side, play inside, or drop into coverage. The problem is, he has as much chance of becoming Jamal Anderson as he does Greg Hardy.
8a. Calvin Pryor, S, Louisville.
8b. Kyle Fuller, DB, Virginia Tech.
10. Dominique Easley, DT, Florida. He'd be top 5 on this list if not for coming off an injury.

Mine would look different but that is an interesting topic in and of itself.

 

[Lord Vader]

I'm not very optimistic about signing Alex Mack, particularly given that the new Brown's regime wants him back. I think there's a decent chance he hits FA, but he will allow the Browns to match any offer, and a lot of teams would jump at the chance to get him. I'll dance a jig if it happens, but I doubt it.

He will join us or die.

 

[mayoclinic]

He will join us or die.

As you wish, Lord Vader.

 

[manxman2601]

He will join us or Tom Brady will die.

Fixed it...

 

[Huckleberry1]

My current top ten for the Patriots on defense goes like this:

1) Aaron Donald DL - Interior pressure on the D-line may be the most critical piece for their defense going forward and there is not a better prospect to give them this dimension.

2) Anthony Barr LB - I love Barr's upside and think he could well turn out to be the best LB in this draft.

3) K. Mack LB - A close call with Barr but another LB i would love to see in NE but he won't be available.

4) Jadaveon Clowney DE - I have major reservations about Clowney and think he could be a spectacular bust if drafted high, I don't believe he has the work ethic but it would be impossible to pass on the physical talent if he did a nose dive to them.

5) CJ Mosely LB -Mosley can play anywhere at LB and would be able to contribute immediately.

6) Louis Nix DT - I have concerns about Nix health but with all the questions regarding Wilfork he would provide them with a talented young DT to fill that hole if Wilfork doesn't return to form.

7) Calvin Pryor - Clinton-Dix is the better cover guy but Pryor is the hitter we all want in the middle of their secondary.

8) Darqueze Dennard - CB is not the priority but if Talib leaves then it will be more of a need.

9) Kony Ealy DL - Ealy is more of a 4-3 DE than some of the other prospects but he could fit in this defense as a rotational player with Jones and Ninkovich.

10) Justin Gilbert CB - Like with Dennard I am not high on a CB in the first but this is where Gilbert fits for me.


Off The Board for me: Ryan Shazier and Ra'Shede Hagemann. Shazier is simply not a fit for the Patriots imo, he's too small too even play LB for them imo, and I wouldn't spend a 1st on a DL with a seriously questionable motor, and Hagemann is just that from all I hear, great when he feels like playing but that is rare.