Steve Gregory released

[patsinthesnow]

Ah, I would rather see:
McCourty
Calvin Pryor
Harmon
Exum

I'm not sold on Pryor as a 1st rounder. You would want two rookies in our safety core, along with using a 1st + 4th on it in the process?

I think a safety like Clemons or Abdullah would be a better player in the short term and wouldn't require a 1st in a very deep draft.

 

[Deus Irae]

What Reiss is saying essentially is what I said: there already was an understanding that Gregory, going into his ninth year in the league, wouldn't consider a pay cut.

No, what Reiss is saying is that he is of the understanding that the Patriots did not contact Gregory in an attempt to renegotiate the deal, which is what I said. After saying that, Reiss opines as to why that may have played out that way. He did not say that there was an understanding:

I'd file it into the category of them not wanting to disrespect a veteran player like Gregory (8 seasons) because any reduction would likely be closer to the veteran minimum.

Reiss may be right, and he may be wrong, but other veterans like Gregory (i.e. Rodney Harrison/Brandon Lloyd) have been approached about a pay cut.

What BB did was weigh the option of saving significantly on the cap with banking on Harmon playing "at least" as well as Gregory next season. So however you want to characterize it he let a starting player go over money, not necessarily with an eye on significantly upgrading the position.

We don't know, with certainty, why Gregory was released. We do know that McCourty, with a higher salary, hasn't been released. We do know that both Milloy and Harrison have been approached with the 'opportunity' to take a pay cut in order to remain as Patriots. As I said

BB wouldn't be cutting a quality safety over this money. It's less than McCourty will be making, for crying out loud.

I wasn't personally invested in "falling back" on anything, just thought I'd share that nugget of information. So it appears you're not that high on Harmon either. Hopefully he won't be an even bigger "liability" in Gregory's place.

PFF sucks, and I won't use it or respect it until/unless they completely overhaul it. And, no, I'm not high on Harmon. Hopefully, he'll show much better this season than what I saw from him last season.

 

[Tunescribe]

Yes "LMAO" and "lol" because thats what Im doing to anybody that thinks Gregory wasn't a liability. Maybe they weren't "miscommunications", I put it in parenthesis for a reason. It was probably Gregory being late once again. You don't need a "big playmaker at the safety position" but you need a lot more than gregory bought the last two seasons. Here lets compromise, he's an absolute 100% liability in run support and what he does in coverage doesn't warrant him starting for this team. Lets see what kind of offers this underwhelming safety gets on the open market.

You might as well call BB stupid for starting the guy for two years.

I'm not interested in compromising with your inaccurate assessment of a two-year starter who had a career high in tackles (in 14 games with a broken thumb) being a "100-percent liability in run support." He was not. Did he get beat on occasion because he's not the second coming of Rodney Harrison? Certainly. Let's cross our fingers that Harmon will be at least as good as Gregory this coming season. That apparently is the plan.

 

[shmessy]

I'll be very upset if we cut Vrabel, I like him a lot.

I'd also be confused. Probably more confused than anything. Yeah, definitely more confused.

I still don't know why they wasted a 6th round pick on the gawky slow QB from Michigan when Michael Bishop is ready for stardom NOW!

 

[Tunescribe]

No, what Reiss is saying is that he is of the understanding that the Patriots did not contact Gregory in an attempt to renegotiate the deal, which is what I said. After saying that, Reiss opines as to why that may have played out that way. He did not say that there was an understanding:



Reiss may be right, and he may be wrong, but other veterans like Gregory (i.e. Rodney Harrison/Brandon Lloyd) have been approached about a pay cut.



We don't know, with certainty, why Gregory was released. We do know that McCourty, with a higher salary, hasn't been released. We do know that both Milloy and Harrison have been approached with the 'opportunity' to take a pay cut in order to remain as Patriots.

FWIW I haven't suggested that Gregory is a premier starting safety, just that he was serviceable (average) and not the wretched dog so many here claim. If Harmon is the successor I'm not sure he'll be an improvement. So again, BB apparently figured he's close enough to Gregory's overall skill level that the $3 million cap savings was worth the tradeoff.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I wanted to like Gregory a lot .. but then his play on the field pretty much put and end to that....

Same here - and I don't hold anything against Gregory as a player - his talent just wasn't up to the job

I have to think that Belichick is looking to upgrade this position beyond Harmon

I think the release rather than renegotiation/pay cut really just comes down to Belichick deciding he's seen enough of Gregory to know he can't play the role he needs him to - and thus someone else gets his roster spot.

I don't overthink it.

 

[ausbacker]

FWIW I haven't suggested that Gregory is a premier starting safety, just that he was serviceable (average) and not the wretched dog so many here claim. If Harmon is the successor I'm not sure he'll be an improvement. So again, BB apparently figured he's close enough to Gregory's overall skill level that the $3 million cap savings was worth the tradeoff.

There D has been filled with too many serviceable players in recent times. That needs to change.

 

[ATippett56]

I'm not sold on Pryor as a 1st rounder. You would want two rookies in our safety core, along with using a 1st + 4th on it in the process?

I think a safety like Clemons or Abdullah would be a better player in the short term and wouldn't require a 1st in a very deep draft.

If you draft Pryor in the first, there would be no need to draft another safety:

McCourty, Devin
Harmon, Duron
Wilson, Tavon
Ebner, Nate
Davis, Kanorris

 

[Tunescribe]

There D has been filled with too many serviceable players in recent times. That needs to change.

But EVERY defense (or offense) is going to have a few guys of middlin' ability. That's just the way it is. The important thing is they're smart players who don't make costly mental errors.

 

[ATippett56]

FWIW I haven't suggested that Gregory is a premier starting safety, just that he was serviceable (average) and not the wretched dog so many here claim.

Bill Belichick disagrees. Actions speak louder than words.

If Harmon is the successor I'm not sure he'll be an improvement.

NFL Free Agency commences March 11, 2014. The 2014 NFL Draft commences May 8, 2014.

So again, BB apparently figured he's close enough to Gregory's overall skill level that the $3 million cap savings was worth the tradeoff.

.... in the best interest of the team.

 

[ATippett56]

There D has been filled with too many serviceable players in recent times. That needs to change.

Welcome to the salary cap era.

Unless, that is, you are criticizing Bill Belichick's recent draft selections at the safety position:

Harmon, Duron
Wilson, Tavon
Ebner, Nate
Chung, Patrick

 

[ausbacker]

But EVERY defense (or offense) is going to have a few guys of middlin' ability. That's just the way it is. The important thing is they're smart players who don't make costly mental errors.

Not that I disagree but I don't see too many middle of the road guys with Seattle, San Francisco, Carolina etc. Brady's greatness can only take the Patriots so far. He needs help not just serviceable.

 

[ausbacker]

Welcome to the salary cap era.

Unless, that is, you are criticizing Bill Belichick's recent draft selections at the safety position:

Harmon, Duron
Wilson, Tavon
Ebner, Nate
Chung, Patrick

The Patriots hit and miss like the other 31 teams. I understand why Belichick drafts the way he does and he's got all the runs on the board. That doesn't mean we have to agree with everything, because many don't.

FTR, I think Harmon can become a pretty good player however, with T.J. Ward and Thomas DeCoud potentially available, well...

 

[ATippett56]

FTR, I think Harmon can become a pretty good player however, with T.J. Ward and Thomas DeCoud potentially available, well...

Thomas DeCoud is a free safety. The New England Patriots need an upgrade at strong safety.

Thomas DeCoud, FS for the Atlanta Falcons at NFL.com

 

[ripatsfan91]

Welcome to the salary cap era.

Unless, that is, you are criticizing Bill Belichick's recent draft selections at the safety position:

Harmon, Duron
Wilson, Tavon
Ebner, Nate
Chung, Patrick

I don't think Ebner was picked in the 6th round with the idea that he would develop into a starting safety on defense. He was picked to be a core special teamer because he is extremely athletic, has the fearless attitude to play special teams, and is a good leader/great lockerroom guy.

 

[JMC00]

You might as well call BB stupid for starting the guy for two years.

I'm not interested in compromising with your inaccurate assessment of a two-year starter who had a career high in tackles (in 14 games with a broken thumb) being a "100-percent liability in run support." He was not. Did he get beat on occasion because he's not the second coming of Rodney Harrison? Certainly. Let's cross our fingers that Harmon will be at least as good as Gregory this coming season. That apparently is the plan.

Gregory sucks. Plain and simple. One of his bad angles cost the Pats home field in the AFC. He's an ok 3rd or 4th Safety.

Ya BB was stupid for not offering Dashon Goldson more than 1 year/$2 million in 2011 which one has to wonder if he was more aggressive going after Goldson maybe the Pats win that SB that year. But he didn't which caused him to have to sign a Safety in a free agency year that was very weak on good Safeties.

But he's owning up to his mistake of signing Gregory by cutting him. Which by doing so says to me that Belichick thinks of him as a back-up Safety, which he has in Harmon and Wilson on rookie contracts for.

Also how can you say that Belichick's plan is for Harmon to be the starter when Free Agency hasn't even started and it's still over two months away from the draft?

 

[supafly]

Ya BB was stupid for not offering Dashon Goldson more than 1 year/$2 million in 2011 which one has to wonder if he was more aggressive going after Goldson maybe the Pats win that SB that year.

While I agree with most of what you are saying JMC00, keep in mind that Dashon Goldson didn't break out to be a fraction of the player that he is now until after he had come and gone from his tryout in Foxborough.

Belichick's 1 year/2 million dollar was more than fair for Goldson's body of work up to that point, so it's hard to blame him. It's easy to be pissed on his choice now, but I can't hold someone accountable for not realizing that a player would suddenly break out the next season.

 

[supafly]

FWIW I haven't suggested that Gregory is a premier starting safety, just that he was serviceable (average) and not the wretched dog so many here claim. If Harmon is the successor I'm not sure he'll be an improvement. So again, BB apparently figured he's close enough to Gregory's overall skill level that the $3 million cap savings was worth the tradeoff.

For what it's worth to you, I find your analysis to be quite reasonable re: Gregory. He wasn't a good starter, but he may have been an adequate 3rd safety, and definitely a decent 4th safety. Not too many in the league would have had someone like that, who was so far down on the depth chart.

Unfortunately, they couldn't work something out to keep him here for a million or so less (or simply didn't want to).

There D has been filled with too many serviceable players in recent times. That needs to change.

This is probably the best assessment of the situation that I've seen. Hopefully we aren't bit in the ass with the move without having a better starter again, but there's a decent possibility (in my opinion) that we'll be addressing it in free agency and/or the draft in a bigger way than some think.

In other words, I doubt we'll be heading into the season with some "meh" type moves where we add a guy for 1 million dollars or a 6th round pick. Just my opinion though.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Not that I disagree but I don't see too many middle of the road guys with Seattle, San Francisco, Carolina etc. Brady's greatness can only take the Patriots so far. He needs help not just serviceable.

It's a difficult judgment when speaking about how the Patriots do business. Do the Patriots put a lot into one specific year(s) and accept the certain cap problems/losing it will eventually bring? Or do they continue to put themselves with each year's small circle of teams that has a chance at the SB via a sustainable cap spending plan (though this means they aren't likely to be dominant in any given year)?

While there are specific times of the season I'll strongly wish they would have spent more for those couple of difference making players, I believe the Patriots are doing the right thing. In the Past 6 or 7 years we've been an iota away from 2 SB victories along with 2 AFCCGs. It's been a LONG time since the Patriots season has been over by week 14 or 15 -- certaintly no where near back to back years of late season futility (a la Buffalo or Miami or NYJ). In that same 6 or 7 years span, Patriot fans have been treated to about 3/4 of a season of additional football at the very best time to be a fan, playoff football. That's quite a bit to potentially give up for one victory in January when it will have all but faded by December.

 

[supafly]

It's a difficult judgment when speaking about how the Patriots do business. Do the Patriots put a lot into one specific year(s) and accept the certain cap problems/losing it will eventually bring? Or do they continue to put themselves with each year's small circle of teams that has a chance at the SB via a sustainable cap spending plan (though this means they aren't likely to be dominant in any given year)?

While there are specific times of the season I'll strongly wish they would have spent more for those couple of difference making players, I believe the Patriots are doing the right thing. In the Past 6 or 7 years we've been an iota away from 2 SB victories along with 2 AFCCGs. It's been a LONG time since the Patriots season has been over by week 14 or 15 -- certaintly no where near back to back years of late season futility (a la Buffalo or Miami or NYJ). In that same 6 or 7 years span, Patriot fans have been treated to about 3/4 of a season of additional football at the very best time to be a fan, playoff football. That's quite a bit to potentially give up for one victory in January when it will have all but faded by December.

Agreed, TBS.

Knowing ausbacker, I can guarantee you that he's not wanting to sacrifice the future for the present, or stray from the current business model.

I think it's more of a hope that the money we save from dumping some of these "mediocre" or "serviceable" players, can be used to reel in some better talent--along with the upcoming draft. On top of that, we all would prefer it to be spent on certain positions of obvious weakness, and many would point to the WR position as one of those positions. We really should attempt to get Brady a bit of help at the position, at least in my opinion anyway.