My Blueprint for the Defense

[manxman2601]

The exact opposite. I was dying at the thought that they'll add to an existing group that explosive when the Patriots won't draft one pure pass rusher.

We've drafted three pass rushers in the last two years.

 

[mayoclinic]

We've drafted three pass rushers in the last two years.

I'm not sure I would call Hightower a "pass rusher", and so far Collins hasn't been used in that role much. But you're point is taken.

 

[manxman2601]

I'm not sure I would call Hightower a "pass rusher", and so far Collins hasn't been used in that role much. But you're point is taken.

Jones, Bequette, Buchanan.


I'm not saying they've been successful but this notion that we don't invest in our defense needs to be dispelled. Including Talib, there were seven first rounders starting on our defense last year.

 

[mayoclinic]

Jones, Bequette, Buchanan.

I'm not saying they've been successful but this notion that we don't invest in our defense needs to be dispelled. Including Talib, there were seven first rounders starting on our defense last year.

Forgive me for not confusing Bequette with a "pass rusher". I thought you meant Hightower. My bad.

I certainly wouldn't say that we haven't invested in the defense. But that doesn't mean you don't go on investing, and you keep trying with unsuccessful picks until you succeed. That's true on offense as well as defense.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Unless Seattle loses Bennett, Donald would hardly see the field. They could take him as a future McDonald replacement, but that's not the best use of resources. That and if they do lose Bennett they'd be better off using their first on a replacement for him. If there is one.

 

[manxman2601]

Forgive me for not confusing Bequette with a "pass rusher". I thought you meant Hightower. My bad.

I certainly wouldn't say that we haven't invested in the defense. But that doesn't mean you don't go on investing, and you keep trying with unsuccessful picks until you succeed. That's true on offense as well as defense.

Everlong said "the Patriots won't draft one pure pass rusher". You might not say it, but it's certainly getting said.

 

[ashley]

Jones, Bequette, Buchanan.


I'm not saying they've been successful but this notion that we don't invest in our defense needs to be dispelled. Including Talib, there were seven first rounders starting on our defense last year.

Let's add another first rounder to our defense again this year, a nice defensive lineman in the first and top that off with a safety in the second or vice versa and then grab our tight ends in the 3rd and 4th round, maybe an offensive lineman and cornerback in the back of the draft.

 

[everlong]

Everlong said "the Patriots won't draft one pure pass rusher". You might not say it, but it's certainly getting said.

The key word being pure. I never said they don't invest in the defense. You did this in another thread and said people were trashing the defense. There's a difference between wanting a different type of player or a change in philosophy. The funny thing is you'll defend the scheme and the personell and yet you're higher on Donald than I am. So please tell me the last time the Patriots drafted a guy like Donald? A pure one gapper who's going to have one very special skill, to get in the backfield and cause chaos.

 

[manxman2601]

The key word being pure. I never said they don't invest in the defense. You did this in another thread and said people were trashing the defense. There's a difference between wanting a different type of player or a change in philosophy. The funny thing is you'll defend the scheme and the personell and yet you're higher on Donald than I am. So please tell me the last time the Patriots drafted a guy like Donald? A pure one gapper who's going to have one very special skill, to get in the backfield and cause chaos.

All I did was point out that the Patriots drafted three pure (by Patriots standards) pass rushers in the last two years.

 

[mayoclinic]

All I did was point out that the Patriots drafted three pure (by Patriots standards) pass rushers in the last two years.

Out of curiosity, would you call any of the following "pure pass rushers by Patriots standards":

- DT Aaron Donald
- DT Timmy Jernigan
- DT Ra'Shede Hageman
- DE/DT Stephon Tuitt
- DE Trent Murphy
- DE Aaron Lynch
- DE Taylor Hart
- DE/OLB Marcus Smith

I'm not arguing, just curious if any of these meets' your standard, or if you see them being drafted (or not) based on more diverse criteria.

 

[everlong]

.....this notion that we don't invest in our defense needs to be dispelled

Everlong said "the Patriots won't draft one pure pass rusher". You might not say it, but it's certainly getting said.

All I did was point out that the Patriots drafted three pure (by Patriots standards) pass rushers in the last two years.

It came off as more than that coupled with your comment in another thread that people need to stop trashing the defense. All I said was they haven't drafted a pure pass rusher. IMO they haven't I would like one. That doesn't mean I'm trashing the players or coaches.

So again do you think they'll actually even consider Donald?

 

[manxman2601]

Out of curiosity, would you call any of the following "pure pass rushers by Patriots standards":

- DT Aaron Donald
- DT Timmy Jernigan
- DT Ra'Shede Hageman
- DE/DT Stephon Tuitt
- DE Trent Murphy
- DE Aaron Lynch
- DE Taylor Hart
- DE/OLB Marcus Smith

I'm not arguing, just curious if any of these meets' your standard, or if you see them being drafted (or not) based on more diverse criteria.

Lynch certainly and possibly Murphy. Smith could be drafted as a pure pass rusher by someone but I see more potential for versatility than that. I don't think potential 3-4 DE can ever be considered as pure pass rushers. Donald is more questionable. He certainly could be a pure rusher but I see him ad a more generally disruptive force than that.

 

[everlong]

Out of curiosity, would you call any of the following "pure pass rushers by Patriots standards":

- DT Aaron Donald
- DT Timmy Jernigan
- DT Ra'Shede Hageman
- DE/DT Stephon Tuitt
- DE Trent Murphy
- DE Aaron Lynch
- DE Taylor Hart
- DE/OLB Marcus Smith

I'm not arguing, just curious if any of these meets' your standard, or if you see them being drafted (or not) based on more diverse criteria.

I'm not sure if you were asking me or Manx even though you quoted him. Of tha that group Donald and Jernigan are the two guys who if unleashed would be the best pass rushers. Hageman is the most complete of the group. I would put him in the Chandler Jones category of can rush the pass but will play the gaps and do his job. He's the most likely to be draft by Bill.

Tuitt to me is a Ty Warren type and Murphy a Vrabel type. They do there job and will get their by not quitting.

I don't like Taylor Hart.

Marcus Smith very well may end up in the first round with a good combine. He reminds me of Chandler Jones a bit and I think Bill would draft him. While not a pure pass rusher he and Jones would make excellent bookends.

Summary I'd love Jernigan but don't think Bill will take him. I don't think Donald is as complete as Jernigan but would love to have him and Bill won't draft him. Love Hageman Bill will take him. Love Smith Bill woudl take him. Only like Tuitt and Murphy but Bill would take them probably at the bottom of the second or definitely in the 3rd for the value.

Lynch is the one I left out because I think he has major potential but his work ethic is a question mark. I think he lights up the combine and somebody drafts him on potential long before Bill would and to be honest I can't blame him. Maybe at the end of the third I'd roll the dice but I believe he's gone by then.

 

[everlong]

Smith could be drafted as a pure pass rusher by someone but I see more potential for versatility than that.

I agree on the versatility. I think he could even drop as a 3-4 OLB in certain situations. I don't think he's a pure pass rusher though. Still I'd love to have him.

I think Van Noy translates into what the Patriots expected from Colvin before the hip injury. I think he could be really versatile and be a pure pass rusher. I would take him at 29.

 

[mayoclinic]

I agree on the versatility. I think he could even drop as a 3-4 OLB in certain situations. I don't think he's a pure pass rusher though. Still I'd love to have him.

I think Van Noy translates into what the Patriots expected from Colvin before the hip injury. I think he could be really versatile and be a pure pass rusher. I would take him at 29.

Van Noy and Christian Jones are on my short list along with Marcus Smith, and on my alternate list at 29 depending on who is available.

 

[everlong]

Van Noy and Christian Jones are on my short list along with Marcus Smith, and on my alternate list at 29 depending on who is available.

Of the players I would take at 29:

Will be gone

Jernigan
Donald
Pryor

Might Last

Hageman

Should be there

Van Noy
Jones
Smith
ASJ

Don't want if they fall that far

Amaro
Ealy

EDIT: Also predicting who's going to be there before the combine is a bit silly and will change but as of now.The interesting one for me would be all these guys blow away the combine and a guy like Nix falls. He's not what I want but the value would be great and you look at what Terrance Knighton did for the Broncos and he woudl be tough to pass-up.

 

[cstjohn17]

I think part of my hesitation in liking this guy is that it would take a pretty big divergence from drafting history for the Pats to pick this guy. I feel like I'm setting myself up to be disappointed.

If you are not in tears or kicking in your tv then you haven't watched too many Patriots drafts.

Great article by Kevin Rousseau from 2005
Friends Don't Let Friends Watch The Draft

 

[mayoclinic]

Of the players I would take at 29:

Will be gone

Jernigan
Donald
Pryor

Might Last

Hageman

Should be there

Van Noy
Jones
Smith
ASJ

Don't want if they fall that far

Amaro
Ealy

EDIT: Also predicting who's going to be there before the combine is a bit silly and will change but as of now.The interesting one for me would be all these guys blow away the combine and a guy like Nix falls. He's not what I want but the value would be great and you look at what Terrance Knighton did for the Broncos and he woudl be tough to pass-up.

This is a good list. I would move Donald to the "might last" group, because of his size. I think after the Combine Hageman may well move up.

Murphy is still on my list for now, though I understand the concerns about where he fits.

Does Nix figure into your list at all?

 

[everlong]

This is a good list. I would move Donald to the "might last" group, because of his size. I think after the Combine Hageman may well move up.

Murphy is still on my list for now, though I understand the concerns about where he fits.

Does Nix figure into your list at all?

I just think Donald is going to blow up the short area drills and have a fast 10 yard split on the 40 and he'll rise. Like I said in my edit until the combine either of us could be right. Once we see the numbers to go with the film we'll have a better idea. He just looks so fast off the snap.

Nix would be intesting if we knew Vince would return to form. You throw the two wide bodies in the middle and effectively play a 2-5-4 or 2-4-5 where the DE's are standing up a lot and you shift defensive fronts at will. You let those two eat up all the blockers in the run game and pick up some more speed at the LB position and let them make plays. But without knowing about Vince I'd rather one of the pass rushing DTs.

 

[everlong]

Also I'd be shocked if the Steelers don't take Nix.Their defense has become porous due to a lot of aging vets but for what they do Nix will give them that interior toughness and size they've lacked since Casey Hampton got old.