College Football Star Michael Sam Says He Is Gay; May Become First Publicly G...

[Hercules Rockefeller]

It sure beats the way Manti Te'o publicly announced his straightness by giving interview after interview talking about his fake girlfriend, huh? Or how about Gronk posing shirtless with porn stars?

We straight people make big public statements about our sexual orientation ALL THE TIME, in good ways and bad. (Heck, I even married a man!) We just never have to label it an annoucement of orientation because being straight is the default. It's what people assume unless informed otherwise. So gay people, including gay football players, have to inform them otherwise. Seems reasonable to me.

Just wanted to point out that, as always, Patchick is absolutely killing it in this thread. The Moderatrix is one of my favorite posters and I want to publicly applaud her intellect and her reason. I always look forward to what you have to say Patchick!

 

[RI Patriots fan]

I don't even care to get into the rest of the ignorant nonsense that you posted, but the bolded portion is just objectively wrong. Lots of us have openly gay members of our families, and I can assure you that we feel no shame or 'tragedy' about it. Maybe you can't fathom being proud of someone for being secure in who they are despite being constantly told that they shouldn't be, but your views don't reflect on the rest of us who are actually living in the 21st century.

And please, for once, stop trying to excuse your bigotry as sincere religious belief. The Bible says that homosexuality is a sin in exactly the same way that cutting your facial hair and wearing clothes of multiple fabrics are. Your incredibly selective memory re: the Old Testament betrays your homophobia. You're a bigot, plain and simple.

Christian tradition (Old Testament, New Testament, Oral Tradition) is quite clear in it's condemnation of homosexual acts as being highly immoral.

That being said, it is also clear that same sex acts are not exclusive to those with same sex inclinations and the Christian prohibition against same sex acts does not condemn someone just because they have a same sex inclination.

 

[condon84]

I love it.

People who are preaching tolerance, but can't tolerate people with different views!

Awesome

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

True that.
Thus the word sarcastically was applied to that statement.

It was also said he should help his loved ones. But that was omitted in your retort.

Oh Well.

You are right. I am talking about a very liberal topic in this state. What was I thinking?

I say I am Christian and admitted a sinner, but say the Christians are slammed for Christmas etc. and I am a bigot.

Next thing ya know I will get a phone call from Lizzy Warren. HA!

DW Toys

I'm neither a liberal nor a conservative. I think labeling oneself either way makes one a damn fool. Consider the issue, don't decide before you even hear it or have someone decide for you. That's my stance (hat tip Chris Rock), and not a comment on yours.

My view on this subject is based on logic and reason and compassion for humans. For all of that I'm sorry if I have offended you. I just think you couldn't be more misguided in your beliefs and your attempts to say you are not judging couldn't sound more judgmental, all while you cherry pick what is and isn't right according to someone else's ideas rather than your own.

I hope Michael Sam has a long and productive career, not to smite anyone or rub anything in anyone's faces but because he is a good player who made what I consider a brave choice. If you disagree with all of that, that is certainly your right. I just think it's pretty clear that you'd have been bothered by it whether he announced it or whether somebody decided to announce it for him, which was going to happen in the next few weeks.

Be well, Cousin, I'll see you in another topic!

 

[JackBauer]

I love it.

People who are preaching tolerance, but can't tolerate people with different views!

There's a difference between (in)tolerance and (well deserved) ridicule.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Political forum time for this thread.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

Well, this thread has seen me do something I thought I never would... agree with AndyJohnson. Thanks, DW Toys, I now have more respect for a bunch of people on this forum for believing in compassion and love for their fellow man.

Didn't that Jesus fellow try preaching something like that?

 

[JackBauer]

Political forum time for this thread.

Well, if that ain't the death knell I don't know what is.

 

[Ring 6]

Well, if that ain't the death knell I don't know what is.

If any thread ever deserved an execution.....

 

[RI Patriots fan]

Funny that you should bring the bible and it's interpretation into this. I suggest you read this book:

Misquoting Jesus

We all know the lesson of "broken telephone" or "pass the message" where you whisper a statement to one person and it gets passed down the line and the last person to get it, very rarely gets the correct message.

When you consider that for 1,500 years the bible was orally transmitted and copied by hand, you should hopefully realize the inherent danger of taking the bible too literally.

After all, you wouldn't want to cut your hand or foot off if either causes you to stumble, or pluck your eye out for that matter (Mark 9:42-47).

"Broken telephone" is a game played with one person telling another person something and so on. It's one on one.

Christian tradtion was passed on "thousands to thousands" thus guaranteeing a complete and accurate representation over the centuries.
We have evidence of this as early as the very early 2nd century to confirm that the scriptures that we have today are the scriptures that the early christians had and then gave to the next generation.


Papyrus 66 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Papyrus 75 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[DW Toys]

I don't know what half of this is supposed to mean, and you and your family are certainly entitled to their views (however anachronistic they may be), but how can you, knowing nothing about Sam personally or his family, call this a tragedy? In fact, I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts this revelation (assuming they didn't already know, which is unlikely) probably won't change their views of him one whit. I know I've had friends who I never suspected come out and I was plenty happy for them. If your views of a person shift that substantially based on something relatively trivial like their sexual orientation, that's probably a reflection of your own deep-seated issues.

Jack. How true and you are probably Right. Good post. I love all those few members in my family. But this is not a Thanksgiving day open discussion when we visit.


My deep-seated issue would be if we are all honest (doesn't look that way from the posts) we could see them with life being a little easier on them if they were straight. That is my feeling. I can't say for the rest of my family. It's my opinion.

If people are prejudiced to my opinion, so be it.

My whole point is I do not need to or prefer to know and I am getting piled on.

There are two sets of standards versus tolerance that I have described and I get a lesson in religion from someone else's point of view.

If Sam gets drafted I am happy for both he and his family. If his family is so happy he is gay. Great. I still don't want to know. None of my business.


DW Toys

 

[upstater1]

"Broken telephone" is a game played with one person telling another person something and so on. It's one on one.

Christian tradtion was passed on "thousands to thousands" thus guaranteeing a complete and accurate representation over the centuries.
We have evidence of this as early as the very early 2nd century to confirm that the scriptures that we have today are the scriptures that the early christians had and then gave to the next generation.


Papyrus 66 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Papyrus 75 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Stop this nonsense right now before this turns into a real reading of homosexuality in the Bible. You don't really want to address Lot offering his daughters to be gang-raped, do you?

 

[DW Toys]

"Broken telephone" is a game played with one person telling another person something and so on. It's one on one.

Christian tradtion was passed on "thousands to thousands" thus guaranteeing a complete and accurate representation over the centuries.
We have evidence of this as early as the very early 2nd century to confirm that the scriptures that we have today are the scriptures that the early christians had and then gave to the next generation.


Papyrus 66 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Papyrus 75 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bravo to you sir but me saying it ain't helping you today.
DW Toys

 

[condon84]

There's a difference between tolerance and (well deserved) ridicule.

I don't see anything DW posted that deserves ridicule. Nothing extreme like what we're hearing from Putin or any other psycho out there. His honesty about how some people might wish for their family member to be straight when they are gay is probably shared with over 50% of the population. ANd that's a conservative number. Might be close to 100% for dads who's sons end up being gay. Mind you, a lot of dads are not going to disown their sons and will always be proud of them no matter what, but you must be kidding me if you don't think these dads would have preferred for their sons to be straight if given the choice.

 

[Ring 6]

Jack. How true and you are probably Right. Good post. I love all those few members in my family. But this is not a Thanksgiving day open discussion when we visit.


My deep-seated issue would be if we are all honest (doesn't look that way from the posts) we could see them with life being a little easier on them if they were straight. That is my feeling. I can't say for the rest of my family. It's my opinion.

If people are prejudiced to my opinion, so be it.

My whole point is I do not need to or prefer to know and I am getting piled on.

There are two sets of standards versus tolerance that I have described and I get a lesson in religion from someone else's point of view.

If Sam gets drafted I am happy for both he and his family. If his family is so happy he is gay. Great. I still don't want to know. None of my business.


DW Toys

I call BS. You are not saying you wish they were straight because it makes their life easier, you are saying it because you think they are morally wrong, and find homosexuality reprehensible. At least be honest.

 

[JackBauer]

I don't see anything DW posted that deserves ridicule. Nothing extreme like what we're hearing from Putin or any other psycho out there. His honesty about how some people might wish for their family member to be straight when they are gay is probably shared with over 50% of the population. ANd that's a conservative number. Might be close to 100% for dads who's sons end up being gay. Mind you, a lot of dads are not going to disown their sons and will always be proud of them no matter what, but you must be kidding me if you don't think these dads would have preferred for their sons to be straight if given the choice.

I'm sorry, but this:

Regardless of how his family portrays this, you have to feel sorry for them. This is a family tragedy. We all know someone either family or friends that this has happened to and no one is happy regardless of the impression of how proud they all are.

...is as deserving of a heaping pile of scorn and derision as anything I've read on this board.

DW is entitled to his opinion, and he is certainly entitled to express it (tolerance), but don't expect an anodyne response to this Westboro Baptist-esque nonsense.

 

[DW Toys]

I'm neither a liberal nor a conservative. I think labeling oneself either way makes one a damn fool. Consider the issue, don't decide before you even hear it or have someone decide for you. That's my stance (hat tip Chris Rock), and not a comment on yours.

My view on this subject is based on logic and reason and compassion for humans. For all of that I'm sorry if I have offended you. I just think you couldn't be more misguided in your beliefs and your attempts to say you are not judging couldn't sound more judgmental, all while you cherry pick what is and isn't right according to someone else's ideas rather than your own.

I hope Michael Sam has a long and productive career, not to smite anyone or rub anything in anyone's faces but because he is a good player who made what I consider a brave choice. If you disagree with all of that, that is certainly your right. I just think it's pretty clear that you'd have been bothered by it whether he announced it or whether somebody decided to announce it for him, which was going to happen in the next few weeks.

Be well, Cousin, I'll see you in another topic!

Thank you. I hope so. I can't get any work done.
DW Toys

 

[SalemPats]

I think in the NFL being gay won't be a big issue in the dressing room. These are men who are professionals. I think at the lower levels it's probably more difficult because kids are more immature

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

Stop this nonsense right now before this turns into a real reading of homosexuality in the Bible. You don't really want to address Lot offering his daughters to be gang-raped, do you?

Geeeeshh I didn't know they had co-ed locker rooms way back then. </kennyb>

 

[RI Patriots fan]

Stop this nonsense right now before this turns into a real reading of homosexuality in the Bible. You don't really want to address Lot offering his daughters to be gang-raped, do you?

I'll gladly address any question you would like to offer....I certainly have no fear of that whatsoever...lol.

But let me warn you, I am not an Evangelical Christian who takes the Bible "literally" (or so they say). I am a Roman Catholic who understands that the Bible needs to be interpreted in the light of the entirety of tradition and not looked at as a "one off". A proper exegesis needs to be done which addresses the text itself, the original audience, place within tradition, among a host of other things.