So, @RapSheet tells us Julian Edelman could be worth $7M/year on the open market

[BradyFTW!]

Antonio Brown

Antonio Brown is miles more talented than Edelman or Garcon. He's a top-tier receiver.

Amendola was the healthiest he was all season against the Broncos and couldn’t get open if he was in a paper bag.

Amendola wasn't even close to healthy against the Broncos. No less an authority than Brady himself said as much. The fact that he was equally unhealthy the rest of the season means nothing.

To be clear I do not want to pay Edelman $7 million my point is only that if we were willing to pay Amendola $5.7 million on average than Edelman is worth $1.3 million more in theory.

So there's literally no point to anything that you've posted on this thread, except to acknowledge that sunk costs mean nothing to your point.

 

[BelichicksHoodie]

It's not bashing anything, I do not think that the Patriots made that offer to Amendola out of the goodness of their hearts. I think that the interest for Amendola on the UFA market prompted the deal. If Amendola's performance prompted one of the most conservative teams in the NFL for UFA spending to offer him $5,700,000 I would expect that Edelman's performance would amount to at least $1,300,000 more than that. It's simple economics if house A sells for $X a year later house B which is a nicer house in the same area with the same demographic should sell for $X more than house A did previously. Unless you're anticipating a crash in the slot receiver market which I have know reason to anticipate personally.

You cannot compare NFL free agency to the housing market. Contracts given vary year to year at such an unbelievable rate, they don't consistently rise unless you're the cream of the crop. Edelmen is not a seven million dollar a year receiver and will never get that. Who's on the market and what teams are in need of receivers will dictate his going rate. You have to imagine Decker will get around 8 million a year annually, then you have a whole clump of receivers like Sanders, Edelman, Cooper, etc who will probably be around 5-6 at absolute most.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I remember a ton of people pointing out that the Pats were overly reliant on Welker from 2009-2012. You can make a pretty strong case that it was the #1 culprit for why the offense fizzled out in the playoffs the way that it consistently did. Welker also consistently put up stronger numbers than what Edelman had this year.

Well the interesting thing about the Welker phenomenon is that he was putting up those numbers and getting that kind of attention from Brady when we had basically the best TE duo in the entire NFL. And yet his usage percentage in our offense was extremely high. Inordinately high.

The interesting thing about Julian Edelman is that he produced a 1,000 yard season with 6 TDs when he was basically the only receiver worth throwing to, and everybody else on the other team KNEW IT. Usually in those types of circumstances the other team game plans to shut down your best, or in this case arguably, your only offensive weapon.

Yet JE kept motoring along and producing, in fact his production got better in the SECOND HALF than the first. And that is surprising because teams would have had plenty of game film on him by then to conclude that he would be Brady's go to guy, because well, he was our ONLY guy outside of a trio of unproven rookies.

JE's punt return prowess is just gravy on top of that. Welker used to be a very good punt returner for us, but it got to the point where you'd expect more often than not that he'd automatically call a fair catch instead of trying to run it back. JE didn't have that drawback as a PR. He was a dynamic field position weapon for us.

Losing JE essentially means we would be losing two positions at once, a 1,000 yard receiver plus a top 3 Punt Returner in the league. Yes, he was #1, but even with a slight regression of numbers, at his age, I'd expect him to still be at least a top 3 guy next year.

And let's just hypothesize that JE leaves, who fills that vacuum? I'm not a firm believer in DA at this point. And as we have seen, some very talented receivers have come into our system and just don't 'get it' regardless of physical gifts. That's the risk that we take by signing a replacement. Can they immediately come in, 'get' our complicated read offense system, gain Brady's trust, and produce to at least JE 2013 levels?

 

[Brady6]

Nobody in their right mind would think that it's sensible to argue what you're arguing in the first paragraph. You could extrapolate comparable stat lines with far worse QBs from the best stretches of Amendola's career (look at his start to 2012), which would prove nothing just like your argument proves nothing. At this point you're just arguing nonsense, and there's really no point in continuing to indulge you.

Ok I looked at it, Amendola had one good game in week two in which he had 15 catches, and Amendola had two career games with 100+ yards prior to this season, Edelman had three in his final eight games so just stop you sound ridiculous with you silly unjustified assertions. Find me one stretch in Amendola’s career that is similar is similar to Edelman’s final eight games, I can tell you considering he had better numbers in those eight games than Amendola has ever had in an entire SEASON, so you will not.

 

[Brady6]

Antonio Brown is miles more talented than Edelman or Garcon. He's a top-tier receiver.

Really?

Antonio Brown
• Height: 5101
• Weight: 186
• 40 Yard Dash: 4.56
• 20 Yard Dash: 2.61
• 10 Yard Dash: 1.56
• 225 Lb. Bench Reps: 13
• Vertical Jump: 33 1/2
• Broad Jump: 08'09"
• 20 Yard Shuttle: 4.18
• 3-Cone Drill: 6.98
Edelman
• Height: 5103
• Weight: 195
• 40 Yard Dash: 4.52
• 20 Yard Dash: 2.58
• 10 Yard Dash: 1.52
• 225 Lb. Bench Reps: 14
• Vertical Jump: 36 1/2
• Broad Jump: 10'03"
• 20 Yard Shuttle: 3.92
• 3-Cone Drill: 6.62

Edelman is bigger, faster, stronger, more agile, and can jump longer/further.

Amendola wasn't even close to healthy against the Broncos. No less an authority than Brady himself said as much. The fact that he was equally unhealthy the rest of the season means nothing.

Says who you? Last I heard from Amendola was on 9/25/13 when he told reporters he was close to 100%. Apparently you know more about Danny’s groin than he does…

So there's literally no point to anything that you've posted on this thread, except to acknowledge that sunk costs mean nothing to your point.

:lol: you clearly didn’t major in economic or finance. You think Amendola is so good and one breath and then refer to his contract as a sunk cost in the next breath.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

But I think the point here is that Welker put up those numbers with a lot of talented players around him while Edelman put up a lot of his with a ragtag crew surrounding him.

I'm not knocking Edelman, but we have to accept that in many cases when he was being thrown to the offense wasn't exactly rolling and they were not the kind of passes Brady is throwing if he has a better group out there getting open.

The question is: What could Edelman do, given "Welker's role," in an offense with better talent? Imagine what he can do with, say, GRONK and Dobson taking three or four defenders downfield.

 

[Brady6]

Now see, if you're not looking for people to get mad at you, why would you post that? It's also crap. Amendola was wide open on the bomb to Slater.

Yes, he was wide open once the ball was in the air and the defenders broke off him. Outside of that, he was unable to get open, if that makes people mad to hear I do not know what to tell them except they should learn to accept reality.

 

[SalemPats]

Cutting Amendola would be stupid, plain and simple.
There is no doubt that he can play, that he's willing to play through pain (Reiss has been all over this) and that when healthy, he's got a ton of talent. Yeah, I know, the "when healthy" is the kicker - but could anyone say anything different of JE until last year?

If DA was so great, how come he had 0 catches against a porous Broncos secondary. I know you are a DA lover, but everyone can admit that Edelman is much better

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Michael Giardi ?@MikeGiardi 50m

For Edelman's sake, I hope he gets more money than I think is out there for him but if someone if willing to go deep on yrs and $$, bye bye

Michael Giardi ?@MikeGiardi 50m

Amendola caught 42 of his passes out of the slot. Edelman 54. DA missed how many games?

Michael Giardi ?@MikeGiardi 1h

Researching the slot position. Harvin got 6/67 mil from Sea. Vic Cruz got 5/43 mil. Colston 5/40. No other slot comes close

I think someone will be willing to spend and go deep in terms of years..hope it's the pats but not at 7M

 

[Deus Irae]

56% of his routes came out of the slot.

https://twitter.com/MikeGiardi/status/431997389826953216

Amendola caught 42 of his passes out of the slot. Edelman 54. DA missed how many games?

https://twitter.com/MikeGiardi/status/431998985642196992


This is what I've been trying to get across to some of the people here. Edelman is not Welker, and he's not the Welker replacement.

 

[mgteich]

So, we choose who to spend $7M based on their combine numbers?

Really?

Antonio Brown
• Height: 5101
• Weight: 186
• 40 Yard Dash: 4.56
• 20 Yard Dash: 2.61
• 10 Yard Dash: 1.56
• 225 Lb. Bench Reps: 13
• Vertical Jump: 33 1/2
• Broad Jump: 08'09"
• 20 Yard Shuttle: 4.18
• 3-Cone Drill: 6.98
Edelman
• Height: 5103
• Weight: 195
• 40 Yard Dash: 4.52
• 20 Yard Dash: 2.58
• 10 Yard Dash: 1.52
• 225 Lb. Bench Reps: 14
• Vertical Jump: 36 1/2
• Broad Jump: 10'03"
• 20 Yard Shuttle: 3.92
• 3-Cone Drill: 6.62

 

[SteelersCanada]

Really?

Edelman is bigger, faster, stronger, more agile, and can jump longer/further.

I didn't quote the statistics, because that would've been spam. That being said, are you really comparing guys' measurables? Even you have to recognize how silly that is. AB is a two time Pro Bowl, All Pro receiver and Edelman is... a receiver under Tom Brady.

To put things in perspective, I think should Emmanuel Sanders join the Patriots, he would become the best WR on your guys' roster. AB is head and shoulders above Manny and has shown the potential to be a top 5 receiver in the NFL.

I think you should be worried about production and not combine measureables.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I didn't quote the statistics, because that would've been spam. That being said, are you really comparing guys' measurables? Even you have to recognize how silly that is. AB is a two time Pro Bowl, All Pro receiver and Edelman is... a receiver under Tom Brady.

To put things in perspective, I think should Emmanuel Sanders join the Patriots, he would become the best WR on your guys' roster. AB is head and shoulders above Manny and has shown the potential to be a top 5 receiver in the NFL.

I think you should be worried about production and not combine measureables.

He has been told more than once that combine numbers don't matter when you are talking about veteran players looking for deals, he just doesn't care and makes the same arguments over and over.

What matters for veteran players is their production and career trajectory, not how many times they lifted 225 at the combine.

Edelman played lights out for the Patriots this season so I don't see Sanders producing much more than he did this season, but a repeat of that performance by either would be welcome regardless of who did it. If the patriots can't sign Edelman then Sanders is clearly at the top of their list, but they won't overpay for either. Matter of fact they probably won't even be willing to pay market value.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I didn't quote the statistics, because that would've been spam. That being said, are you really comparing guys' measurables? Even you have to recognize how silly that is. AB is a two time Pro Bowl, All Pro receiver and Edelman is... a receiver under Tom Brady.

To put things in perspective, I think should Emmanuel Sanders join the Patriots, he would become the best WR on your guys' roster. AB is head and shoulders above Manny and has shown the potential to be a top 5 receiver in the NFL.

I think you should be worried about production and not combine measureables.

LMAO-I basically ignore Brady6 and didn't realize until a moment ago that he was actually comparing Antonio Brown and Edelman, I just assumed it was Sanders. Unfortunately i have to admit that I agree with him, it is not how you play in the NFL it is your 3 cone 4 years earlier that really matters.

 

[Brady6]

So, we choose who to spend $7M based on their combine numbers?

I wish I got a dollar every time you ignored context and responded to content only.

FTW said that Brown is miles more talented than Edelman or Garcon; I showed the combine #s to show that is untrue. I do not think they would have the NFL combine if that was not used to assess talent.

I didn't quote the statistics, because that would've been spam. That being said, are you really comparing guys' measurables? Even you have to recognize how silly that is. AB is a two time Pro Bowl, All Pro receiver and Edelman is... a receiver under Tom Brady.

To put things in perspective, I think should Emmanuel Sanders join the Patriots, he would become the best WR on your guys' roster. AB is head and shoulders above Manny and has shown the potential to be a top 5 receiver in the NFL.

I think you should be worried about production and not combine measureables.

Spam?

I don’t know who Manny is.

As I said above the poster said, Brown was a mile more talented than Edelman was which is untrue. Production relies heavily on opportunity and Antonio Brown has had the opportunity over the past 3 years, Edelman has not until this year.

 

[Brady6]

https://twitter.com/MikeGiardi/status/431997389826953216



https://twitter.com/MikeGiardi/status/431998985642196992


This is what I've been trying to get across to some of the people here. Edelman is not Welker, and he's not the Welker replacement.

Where is Giardi getting these numbers? Is he counting them himself?

Amendola had 24 catches, 357 yards, and 1 touchdown in 3 games (week 1, week 9, and week 15). In his other regular season games, he had 30 catches, 276 yards, and 1 touchdown. He is too inconsistent to be our #1 slot receiver and he has been his entire career, last season 26 of his 63 catches and 262 of his 666 yards came in 2 of his games. He has big games and then he has really small games, the slot position on the Patriots requires consistency.

 

[Kontradiction]

Where is Giardi getting these numbers? Is he counting them himself?

Amendola had 24 catches, 357 yards, and 1 touchdown in 3 games (week 1, week 9, and week 15). In his other regular season games, he had 30 catches, 276 yards, and 1 touchdown. He is too inconsistent to be our #1 slot receiver and he has been his entire career, last season 26 of his 63 catches and 262 of his 666 yards came in 2 of his games. He has big games and then he has really small games, the slot position on the Patriots requires consistency.

Edelman had some big games followed by smaller games, as well. Have to remember that Amendola was injured, Edelman had four more years experience in this offense with Brady, and their difference in play might have been game plan specific.

The main problem with Amendola isn't whether or not he can be productive in this offense. He proved that he can be. No, his issue is that he gets injured every... single... year. With the contract he was given, that's the issue.

 

[50-yard-line]

Yes, he was wide open once the ball was in the air and the defenders broke off him. Outside of that, he was unable to get open, if that makes people mad to hear I do not know what to tell them except they should learn to accept reality.

Okay, so we've come to the point of absurdity. On that play, there were two Pats underneath who were in much better position to make the first down. One was Amndola, as was noted by a couple of sportswriters, who was wide open.

You have coach's tape? Yet you're claiming he was unable to get open?

By the way, he's also rated as the best blocking receiver on the Pats. he's going to need to have a better year next year to stick around in 2015, no doubt, but to cut him now, as I said at the beginning of this thread, is STUPID.

And yes, it's very possible that he'll be our #1 WR this year, depending on the market. Deal with it.

 

[Brady6]

Edelman had some big games followed by smaller games, as well. Have to remember that Amendola was injured, Edelman had four more years experience in this offense with Brady, and their difference in play might have been game plan specific.

The main problem with Amendola isn't whether or not he can be productive in this offense. He proved that he can be. No, his issue is that he gets injured every... single... year. With the contract he was given, that's the issue.

To be fair they can move away from Amendola after 2014 without any major implications, for that reason Amendola does not really influence the Edelman situation in my opinion. If they want to resign Edelman, they just have to structure the deal to have a low cap hit this season and then increase in 2015 when they are clear of Amendola.

 

[Brady6]

Okay, so we've come to the point of absurdity. On that play, there were two Pats underneath who were in much better position to make the first down. One was Amndola, as was noted by a couple of sportswriters, who was wide open.

You have coach's tape? Yet you're claiming he was unable to get open?

You’re right, he was open on 1 play actually and Brady threw him the ball but he dropped it.

By the way, he's also rated as the best blocking receiver on the Pats. he's going to need to have a better year next year to stick around in 2015, no doubt, but to cut him now, as I said at the beginning of this thread, is STUPID.

Where did you find this run blocking rating? Do you have a link or the rankings? Amendola is not that good of a run blocker; he is not even used in running situations most times.

If you look at posts #176 and #190 in this thread you will see that I stated in both that, I would not cut Amendola and I do not think the Patriots should cut Amendola.

And yes, it's very possible that he'll be our #1 WR this year, depending on the market. Deal with it.

If he is our #1 WR we will have major problems, let me remind you of something when Amendola was signed we had Aaron Hernandez on the team and Rob Gronkowski was healing up from a forearm injury. This year Hernandez is in jail and Gronkowski is recovering from a major knee injury, Belichick is the greatest coach of all-time if you really believe he would put his trust into Amendola to be the #1 target in this offense you are out of your freaking mind.

I am not sure why you're turning this thread into an Amendola defense thread anyway, he is relevant only in comparing contracts of recently signed slot WRs. His presence is not going to affect the decision to keep Edelman; they do not think Danny Amendola is a better player than Edelman if they did Edelman would not have been the starter.