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The Official "You People Need to RELAX about the WR corps" thread

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Posts like this is why I don't come here as much anymore. I come to read exciting and positive opinions and all I get is nay-sayers and negative responses like yours!! By the way, what are your qualifications for saying the Pats overpaid for Welker?

Let me guess, you would've been happy if we gave up a 1st for Moss and maybe a 2nd or 3rd for Jerry Porter....

Bozo....

I can't tell if you're being serious or not. If you are, though - here goes:

I'm not being a naysayer by trying to be realistic about some of these moves.

What are my qualifications for saying the Pats overpaid for Welker???? They gave up a 2nd rounder for him. He's had one good year. He's not this huge "playmaker" everyone's touting him to be. Can he be the next Troy Brown? I hope so. He looks like he could have that kind of skill-set - and BB seems to think so, so I'm not totally pi$$ed about the trade, obviously the BB/Pioli stamp of approval gives me faith. That said, his exploits as a PR/KR are DEEPLY overpraised here. He averaged, what, 22+ per KR last year? That's not elite or anything. It's so-so.

But there's also the very real chance - backed up by his history of performance - that he's just a sort of hustling, dirt-dog little guy. Is that valuable? Sure. Worth a 2nd rounder? I don't know. Either way he's on the team, and I'm excited to see him TRY to become Troy Brown 2.0. I just think it's pretty clear we overpaid a bit - both in picks and $$$.
 
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Also, you're deeds so there's that whole "troll" factor to bear in mind.
 
Kevin Faulk out-averaged Wes Welker in PR's last year by a yard.
 
Why the hell is everyone making a big deal about a second rounder for Wes Welker when we have two (count 'em, TWO) first rounders.
 
Because 2nd rounders have value also. I think we all acknowledge that BB wanted Welker and he gave what it took to get him. I just think it's kind of a bummer. Not a big deal, but for me an overpay.
 
Because 2nd rounders have value also. I think we all acknowledge that BB wanted Welker and he gave what it took to get him. I just think it's kind of a bummer. Not a big deal, but for me an overpay.

Welker is proven in the NFL, though. A second rounder is not.
 
patsox, I haven't finished reading this thread but I'll add:

Competition is healthy. And healthy competition among these talented WR candidates is a well calculated plan. If they want to make the cut -- then earn the right to remain. They'll be shown how there's no room for poorly run routes, dropped passes, or half-hearted efforts. If so -- they'll be gone. The plus side for the Pats is, a few of these guys will really shine. And that's exactly the kind of capable and reliable WR corps that Brady needs to start the season.
 
Stallworth - on essentially a one-year deal. Had 38 catches last year. Potential is great, but so are the odds he gets hurt.


.

Cannot agree with you here - potential has been realized and he is one hell of a fine wide out......he is faster and has better stats in all categories except for one (total catches 266-233) when compared to Deion Branch.
 
Just a quick addition - Reche Caldwell did a great job for the Pats last season. While I still believe it's possible he or Gaffney don't make the team, I think he gets way too much flack here. He was our best WR and we almost went to the Super Bowl, and should have. I don't get the hate for Caldwell on this board AT ALL.

Hooray !! Someone else feels as well as I do that Caldwell played awfully well when he was a one man band at WR, with no help...

I hope that the Pats arange for Troy to become a shadow roster player this season. He should stay in shape and await the injury replacement phone call.
 
please.

patsox23 = clueless fool.

he'll catch up after the fact, for now just humor him.
 
Huh. I don't see how you can look at the Pats moves this offseason as anything but a complete overhaul of the Pats wide receivers corps. The Pats structured their contracts smartly so that if Stallworth or Washington don't pan out they can back out with minimal damage in the second year, but that doesn't mean that the new wideouts aren't valuable and needed guys that are looked at to make an impact on what was one of the weakest wide receiver groups in all of the NFL in 2006. By the Picks the Pats have dished out and the total monies it is clear that BB had on his mind a particular mission this offseason and went after it full bore - "Give Tom Brady Weapons."

And please don't turn this into a linebacker debate. Everyone knows that A. Thomas got the most money and everyone loves Thomas because of what he will bring to the D. But clearly the "offense wasn't broke" mantra that had been repeatedly chanted prior to this offseasons' transactions is starting to ring hollow in light of the front office moves.
 
I can't tell if you're being serious or not. If you are, though - here goes:

I'm not being a naysayer by trying to be realistic about some of these moves.

What are my qualifications for saying the Pats overpaid for Welker???? They gave up a 2nd rounder for him. He's had one good year. He's not this huge "playmaker" everyone's touting him to be. Can he be the next Troy Brown? I hope so. He looks like he could have that kind of skill-set - and BB seems to think so, so I'm not totally pi$$ed about the trade, obviously the BB/Pioli stamp of approval gives me faith. That said, his exploits as a PR/KR are DEEPLY overpraised here. He averaged, what, 22+ per KR last year? That's not elite or anything. It's so-so.

But there's also the very real chance - backed up by his history of performance - that he's just a sort of hustling, dirt-dog little guy. Is that valuable? Sure. Worth a 2nd rounder? I don't know. Either way he's on the team, and I'm excited to see him TRY to become Troy Brown 2.0. I just think it's pretty clear we overpaid a bit - both in picks and $$$.

While deeming Welker the next Troy Brown at this stage is certainly premature and overly optimistic, you're just as remiss in the opposite direction to suggest he's more like Tim Dwight, and that the Pats overpaid for him. First of all, Wes Welker has played 2 years at wide receiver, and in his 2nd year, caught significantly more passes than Dwight has caught in any season in his 9 year career.

More importantly, you're vastly overvaluing the worth of a late 2nd round draft pick. Any receiver who has top-end size, speed and athleticism and demonstrated good character, durability and who were production in college will be off the board by the 28th pick in the 2nd round. What will be left will be guys who lack a few of those characteristics. There will be receivers with good size and athleticism who for some reason didn't produce in college, there will be guys who were productive in college but don't have ideal NFL measurables, and there will be guys with injury concerns.

You don't want to roll the dice with good athletes who haven't proven themselves good football players w/ every draft pick after those with both have gone in the 1st round and a half. Unlike those kinds of "yeah but..." prospects, BB + SP have seen a lot of film of Wes Welker playing in an NFL offense vs. NFL defenses, and have seen him have good success as a slot receiver, an area of serious need for the Pats w/ Troy Brown likely retiring. Having caught 69 passes in only his 2nd year as a receiver, it's ridiculous to suggest he doesn't have as good potential as anybody you could want to pick in the late 2nd round, and unlike most, he's got some evidence to suggest he might realize that potential.

As for his salary... $3.4 mil a year is entirely reasonable, and will only get more so as the cap expands. The $10 mil in guarantees might seem a bit high, but if BB is willing to gamble that Welker will be around for a few years, I trust him on that one.
 
Because 2nd rounders have value also. I think we all acknowledge that BB wanted Welker and he gave what it took to get him. I just think it's kind of a bummer. Not a big deal, but for me an overpay.

BB not only traded a 2nd rounder but guaranteed him $10.75M. That tells me BB thinks he knows more than you do about Wes Welker and the value of draft picks patsox23. And that makes perfect sense to me since he should. I'd rather have Wes Welker than the next Chad Jackson or Marquise Hill or Eugene Wilson or even Deion Branch given his limited early contribution and missed time which a team without some football equivalent of dirtdogs might not have survived and then of course there is the way he left. Light was a good pickup but that was eons ago. In 2005 they traded out of the second round because it didn't represent value after they used the first on Mankins.

People get hung up on things they think they know, like draft picks are valuable. They are, but not just in the draft. They are currency, and Bill obviously felt Welker would provide greater value in 2007 and going forward than anything he could get at WR/KR in the 2007 draft.

Your assessment of the Welker acquisition isn't any more valid that Solman getting wound up on thinking he's got the cap philosophy and pro player personnel scouting all figured out and wanting to boot Caldwell before we even determine whether kicking Washington's tires pans out or whether CJ can ever get on the field in a highly productive role and stay there.
 
Washington is worth a shot - all potential at this point - but 6' 3" of potential

Welker isn't even into his prime yet and still caught 67 passes last season.

Stallworth, if healthy, keeps the opposing secondary wayyyy deeep - as 1 in 4 passes caught were over 20 yards (as opposed to what seem to be the fans prefernece for a lot of 12 ypc) helping all our TEs, WRs and RBs gain extra yardage as well as keeping Safeties off Brady's back.

That's a lot of reason for optimism.

Given all the "optimism" that people had for JUST having Caldwell and Gaffney return for a full season, I think you can understand why a lot of people are somewhat giddy over all this.

Where's NEM when you need him - for once, when he says this is the deepest WR corps the Patriots have ever had - and possibily in the NFL, he'd be right.
 
Welker is proven in the NFL, though. A second rounder is not.

Oh, okay. Then let's trade both our first rounders for Marlon McCree and Vincent Jackson.
 
BB not only traded a 2nd rounder but guaranteed him $10.75M. That tells me BB thinks he knows more than you do about Wes Welker and the value of draft picks patsox23. And that makes perfect sense to me since he should. I'd rather have Wes Welker than the next Chad Jackson or Marquise Hill or Eugene Wilson or even Deion Branch given his limited early contribution and missed time which a team without some football equivalent of dirtdogs might not have survived and then of course there is the way he left. Light was a good pickup but that was eons ago. In 2005 they traded out of the second round because it didn't represent value after they used the first on Mankins.

People get hung up on things they think they know, like draft picks are valuable. They are, but not just in the draft. They are currency, and Bill obviously felt Welker would provide greater value in 2007 and going forward than anything he could get at WR/KR in the 2007 draft.

Your assessment of the Welker acquisition isn't any more valid that Solman getting wound up on thinking he's got the cap philosophy and pro player personnel scouting all figured out and wanting to boot Caldwell before we even determine whether kicking Washington's tires pans out or whether CJ can ever get on the field in a highly productive role and stay there.

Sometimes I really tire of the short-sightedness here. OF COURSE Bill Belichick knows more than I do. I'm only offering my opinion - and my take on the wildly premature, "OUR OFFENSE IS SET!" attitude that has taken over this board.

I made it EXTREMELY clear in more than one post that that was my take - not to run down Wes Welker. Just to say people need to put on the breaks. If you're not going to READ the posts, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do.
 
Cannot agree with you here - potential has been realized and he is one hell of a fine wide out......he is faster and has better stats in all categories except for one (total catches 266-233) when compared to Deion Branch.


Think a record for catches in consecutive super bowls (22?) a SB MVP and two rings. Is Stallworth a big game player like Branch? To Be Determined net Jan/Feb.
 
Think a record for catches in consecutive super bowls (22?) a SB MVP and two rings. Is Stallworth a big game player like Branch? To Be Determined net Jan/Feb.

too limited a window....... Gaffney outperformed Harrison in the playoffs by a wide stretch last year, does that make him the better WR? Of course not.

Branch had TB throwing to him too and he's {generally} a pretty clutch player too. Besides, Stalworth has NEVER dropped a pass in the SB either, has Branch .

Stats are manipulatable, But I do agree with you, we will find out next Jan/Feb
 
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Sometimes I really tire of the short-sightedness here. OF COURSE Bill Belichick knows more than I do. I'm only offering my opinion - and my take on the wildly premature, "OUR OFFENSE IS SET!" attitude that has taken over this board.

I made it EXTREMELY clear in more than one post that that was my take - not to run down Wes Welker. Just to say people need to put on the breaks. If you're not going to READ the posts, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do.

The problem isn't that people didn't read your posts... it's that they did. While I understand the temptation to voice an oppositional opinion to those who think we're going to transform into the 2004 Colts with the addition of a few young guys who are promising but raw + possibly injury prone, in doing so you've made some statements that quite a few posters -- myself included -- take exception to.

You've said a few times that you think the Pats overpaid for Wes Welker. IF you don't want to defend this position, don't express it on a message board, and certainly don't get pissy with people who provide counterarguments to it.
 
It is funny how when people were bashing McDaniels this season, the WRs were fine. Now that we have acquired Stallworth, Welker, and Washington and Caldwell isn't even worth what is back up money in this market.

Great, great point. It really is pathetic how spoiled and entitled some posters here have become. And how short their memories are.

R
 
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