It's time for Amendola to step up

[supafly]

Sup you know I have a lot of respect for you in fact as I have said to you before you’re one my favorite poster on the board so I don’t want this to result in any negative feelings towards each other. With that in mind I will attempt to respectfully respond to your post.

Now you see, THAT is something I would NEVER EVER even think of posting.


I LOVE the negative feelings. I embrace them. I bristle when anyone disagrees with MY opinions. Especially YOU, Mr. Sanguine Pats fan of the centuiry, Mr. Supa-diptera.

The internet is SERIOUS business, bud..and the sooner you realize that I am always right and my opinions equal to scientific certainty, the better off YOU will be in your haste to escape Joe Kerr's Mighty Swatter of Correction!

It sometimes takes awhile to get fully used to someone's personality and intent, Joker.

You are...how do I say? An "acquired" taste

Knowledgeable and smart as all hell, but "acquired."

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

I'm confused by this he had a 100+ receptions, 1000+ receiving yards and 5+ touchdowns this season. How are you finding no issue with Amendola being paid what he makes but think a team would need their head examined if they paid Edelman that same amount, Amendola has never achieved anything close to the type of season Edelman has.

Edelman also was very productive as a rookie and last season in his opportunities he had decent numbers for the teams 5th or 6th option in just 9 games.

Amendola played 12 games, Vereen played 8 and Gronkowski played 7, plus the rookies. We had options, not mention a lack of options world mean Edelman faced more coverage and still succeeded.

If gronk was good for the entire season, his #s wouldn't have been as high. If gronk plays 16...dobson 16 ect and he still puts up that? Then yes pay him

 

[Joker]

The Fly Assassin Is Not A Toy

sounds like a country/western tune...

yeah Sup...I freely admit...I'm not quite right....:wacko::der:

 

[supafly]

If the reports are true, we offered Greg Jennings about 6 million per year (average annual) in free agency last year. Of course we don't know the specifics about what kind of length the term was, etc. I would personally find it insanely difficult to believe that we would pay Julian Edelman 6 million per year (average annual) myself, especially after just making the decision with Welker and Amendola the year before.

Now, anything is possible and you never know when some team with 40 million in cap space may overpay for a guy like Edelman, but even then I would doubt it to be that high.

I think that if any of us realistically expect Edelman to stay here in N.England, we may need to drop those projections a bit. Hopefully Belichick will make fair and reasonable offers to both Talib and Edelman, as they are without doubt our 2 most important players to try and retain. Next would probably come Blount, and then Fletcher (in my opinion).

 

[Joker]

If Manning plays another year he'll insist the Donks sign Edelman...right after he throws Weklah under the bus

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Narcissistic? Are you in the mental health profession? If not since I am not a doctor and cant diagnose Amendola’s groin I don’t think you can diagnose me with a mental health disorder by what you read in a sports forum.
.

Narcissism is not the same thing as Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He is not asserting you have a mental disorder. It is something to consider, though, as you hammer away at your 300th post describing the exact same thing. You don't like how much Amendola is paid relative to his statistical production. You don't feel he should be expected to produce better statistics based on his history. You feel his groin injury is being overblown. WE GET IT.

You post more about Danny Amendola than any poster on this message board has ever posted about a single subject or player, ever. That does not make you a narcissist, it does not make you obsessive compulsive. It does not make you dumb or a bad person. But it is friggin weird dude. It's very weird.

Let's enjoy the AFC Title Game, and I couldn't care less what Amendola's stats are (clearly the only possible measure of his contributions, STATS STATS STATS STATS STATS). I only care about beating the Denver Broncos on Sunday, surviving and advancing. That's all that matters.

 

[supafly]

I think you're beating a dead horse a bit, but sometimes that happens and I and many others have been guilty of the same thing at times.

Narcissism is not the same thing as Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He is not asserting you have a mental disorder. It is something to consider, though, as you hammer away at your 300th post describing the exact same thing. You don't like how much Amendola is paid relative to his statistical production. You don't feel he should be expected to produce better statistics based on his history. You feel his groin injury is being overblown. WE GET IT.

You post more about Danny Amendola than any poster on this message board has ever posted about a single subject or player, ever. That does not make you a narcissist, it does not make you obsessive compulsive. It does not make you dumb or a bad person. But it is friggin weird dude. It's very weird.

H.Rockefeller doesn't beat around the bush like I do

 

[Brady6]

1) You seem not to consider sunk cost. Amendola will cost us a bit more than $1M of new money for his services in 2014. It is reasonable to say that we shouldn't have paid him so much to sign him, but I thought the Welker debates were over. It is almost never right to pay a player a high salary when he is injured for much of the season.

As I said in a previous post Amendola was paid $8,500,000 this season by the Patriots and will receive another $3,375,000 in 2014, that combines to for an average of about $5.9 in 2013 and 2014. Just because the salary cap implications show up different does not mean that isn’t what the Patriots are paying him.

2) The fact that we paid too much for Amendola in 2013 does not affect the market for Edelman in 2014. It probably doesn't even affect how much the patriots are willing to offer Edelman.

Amendola has a $4,575,000 cap hit in 2014 which is the 6th highest hit on the team behind Brady, Wilfork, Mankins, Mayo and Gronkowsk; that cap hit is more than Vereen, Dobson, Boyce, Thompkins and Moe combined. It is hard for me to believe that type of cap hit tied up in 1 receiver that plays basically the same position as Edelman isn’t going to prevent what we can allocate to retaining Edelman.

3) IMHO, if Edelman had Amendola's 2013 injuries and Amendola was as healthy as Edelman was, then I would have expected that it would have been Amendola would had 100 receptions. Brady had Amendola ready for the season. Injuries intervened.

I respectfully disagree.

 

[Brady6]

I appreciate that, and it is one of the main reasons why I see no reason to go around in circles since we obviously have a differing viewpoint on the subject itself, which is to be expected at times. Like I said, my comments and responses are nothing more than a difference of opinions, so I don't mean to come off as snarky.

I think you're beating a dead horse a bit, but sometimes that happens and I and many others have been guilty of the same thing at times.

Narcissism is not the same thing as Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He is not asserting you have a mental disorder. It is something to consider, though, as you hammer away at your 300th post describing the exact same thing. You don't like how much Amendola is paid relative to his statistical production. You don't feel he should be expected to produce better statistics based on his history. You feel his groin injury is being overblown. WE GET IT.

You post more about Danny Amendola than any poster on this message board has ever posted about a single subject or player, ever. That does not make you a narcissist, it does not make you obsessive compulsive. It does not make you dumb or a bad person. But it is friggin weird dude. It's very weird.

Let's enjoy the AFC Title Game, and I couldn't care less what Amendola's stats are (clearly the only possible measure of his contributions, STATS STATS STATS STATS STATS). I only care about beating the Denver Broncos on Sunday, surviving and advancing. That's all that matters.

Honestly I use Tapatalk on my iPhone or iPad most times and when someone quotes one of my posts I get a notification and generally I respond to that post. I am not intentionally trying to beat a dead horse. My post count is high on Amendola because of the 5-6 posters who advocate and quote my posts with 30 different angles or excuses for why or how come. I respond to them and often times I reiterate my point because it appears they do not get it as you claim. An example would be his salary posters speak to his cap figure but that is like the equator, what is real is the money the Patriots gave Amendola and that was $8,500,000 in 2013.

I will attempt to try and be conscious of the perception of horse beating and not do so in the future.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Narcissism is not the same thing as Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He is not asserting you have a mental disorder. It is something to consider, though, as you hammer away at your 300th post describing the exact same thing. You don't like how much Amendola is paid relative to his statistical production. You don't feel he should be expected to produce better statistics based on his history. You feel his groin injury is being overblown. WE GET IT.

You post more about Danny Amendola than any poster on this message board has ever posted about a single subject or player, ever. That does not make you a narcissist, it does not make you obsessive compulsive. It does not make you dumb or a bad person. But it is friggin weird dude. It's very weird.

Let's enjoy the AFC Title Game, and I couldn't care less what Amendola's stats are (clearly the only possible measure of his contributions, STATS STATS STATS STATS STATS). I only care about beating the Denver Broncos on Sunday, surviving and advancing. That's all that matters.

Actually I called him narcissistic because of the "If Brady6 doesn't criticize Amendola then nobody should....." headline, which absolutely reeked of someone in love with their own opinion and themself. However obsessive compulsive would also work.


That said, on to the AFCCG, and hopefully this issue won't resurface until the end of next season, at which point it would actually be relevant as the Patriots would actually have a decision to make on the matter.

 

[Brady6]

Actually I called him narcissistic because of the "If Brady6 doesn't criticize Amendola then nobody should....." headline, which absolutely reeked of someone in love with their own opinion and themself. However obsessive compulsive would also work.


That said, on to the AFCCG, and hopefully this issue won't resurface until the end of next season, at which point it would actually be relevant as the Patriots would actually have a decision to make on the matter.

Nah man that’s not why I said that, I said it because I am considered to be one of Amendola’s biggest critics on this board so if anyone was going look for an opportunity to bash him it would have been someone like me but even as his critic often times I couldn’t find issue with him not making the catch at the end of the Dolphins game. It was not an attempt to express my love for myself it was actually an attempt to make a joke out of myself.

I do agree obsessive compulsive is a better description of me, because the obsessing over self-flaws and mistakes basically kills any self-love off

 

[Huckleberry1]

Narcissistic? Are you in the mental health profession? If not since I am not a doctor and cant diagnose Amendola’s groin I don’t think you can diagnose me with a mental health disorder by what you read in a sports forum.

Actually yes, I spent most of my life around it and worked in it for over a decade. And in case you forgot you did "diagnose" Amendola's groin injury repeatedly and claimed it was no big deal.


As for my responses to you they come from your kneejerk responses to player performances, which I hate, and your obsession with fantasy football statistically fixated arguments which imo are complete nonsense. Football is completely about context and nothing in it can be viewed solely through statistical arguments because none of it happens in a vacuum. Statistical arguments are more relevant in sports with 1-1 match ups, such as tennis or baseball, and to some degree a sport like basketball where you can look at a shooting percentage, however everything in football is interdependent and related to the specific situation. Reducing the game and performances to simplistic statistical arguments sells both the players and the game short and in no way reflects the reality of the situation. Stats have a role in the discussion but are not the sole basis of the discussion. I hate the fact that fantasy football is now being used as the basis for real football discussion and that has everything to do with what I don't like about your posts, so it isn't as much personal as it is a reflection of how each of us look at the game, and ultimately the only answer for me is going to be putting the fantasy football fixated on ignore.


You wanted to know where i was coming from and that's it, so I'm going to leave this here and just focus on the AFCCG.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

^^^^
I regret I have but one like to give that reply.

 

[Brady6]

I hate the fact that fantasy football is now being used as the basis for real football discussion and that has everything to do with what I don't like about your posts, so it isn't as much personal as it is a reflection of how each of us look at the game, and ultimately the only answer for me is going to be putting the fantasy football fixated on ignore.

Ivan I honestly have played fantasy football 1 time in my life during the 2006 NFL season. I don’t judge players on stats only but when I post about a player I try and provide context to support it and stats are really the only thing I can give other than my opinion, and since despite what you believe I am not overloaded with self-love I don’t think that me just saying something is the case is sufficient enough to post it without any supporting context. If I had access to stills and other things I would love to rely on that more than stats but the only thing truly accessible are the stats. I admit that relying on them is difficult because they can be misleading in certain situations, receivers however that’s a position that you can measure with statistics in most cases with the exception of blocking or receivers like Moss, Johnson, etc. who pull coverage.

Much of what I say about Amendola is based solely on what I see, which is a player that struggles getting open.

 

[Ring 6]

Actually yes, I spent most of my life around it and worked in it for over a decade. And in case you forgot you did "diagnose" Amendola's groin injury repeatedly and claimed it was no big deal.


As for my responses to you they come from your kneejerk responses to player performances, which I hate, and your obsession with fantasy football statistically fixated arguments which imo are complete nonsense. Football is completely about context and nothing in it can be viewed solely through statistical arguments because none of it happens in a vacuum. Statistical arguments are more relevant in sports with 1-1 match ups, such as tennis or baseball, and to some degree a sport like basketball where you can look at a shooting percentage, however everything in football is interdependent and related to the specific situation. Reducing the game and performances to simplistic statistical arguments sells both the players and the game short and in no way reflects the reality of the situation. Stats have a role in the discussion but are not the sole basis of the discussion. I hate the fact that fantasy football is now being used as the basis for real football discussion and that has everything to do with what I don't like about your posts, so it isn't as much personal as it is a reflection of how each of us look at the game, and ultimately the only answer for me is going to be putting the fantasy football fixated on ignore.


You wanted to know where i was coming from and that's it, so I'm going to leave this here and just focus on the AFCCG.

The bolded part is excellent stuff. IMO.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Much of what I say about Amendola is based solely on what I see, which is a player that struggles getting open.

I am going to say this one last time even though i have no delusion that it will sink in, Amendola is playing with a fully torn abductor muscle, and while he is able to run with this injury he is not able to stop and start quickly or make quick sharp cuts, and not once since suffering that injury have we seen him run a route that called for those quick sharp cuts and stops and starts. Prior to coming to NE that was what Amendola's game was based upon, and that was the reason for all of the comparisons to Welker, who was never lauded for his straight line speed but could shake any coverage because of those abilities. And despite the fact that I am one of the biggest Welker fans on this board i will say that had it been Welker in NE suffering from the exact same injury he would not have been able to produce at all and would have been IR'ed. Not because he isn't tough enough, because Welker is as tough as they come, but because Welker does not have the straight line speed that Amendola has, which is the only reason he is playing at all. Amendola and the Patriots knew they needed him out there and that his presence alone would enable other players to get open, and would occasionally provide opportunities for him to contribute, which is exactly what has happened. He should be lauded and applauded for playing with an injury that is as severe as the one he is playing with, and for finding ways to contribute despite obvious limitations that eliminate his greatest strength as a receiver. The knocks on him for not doing more are ridiculous and ignore the reality of what he has been dealing with all season, and the calls to release him when there is zero chance that will happen because of the structure of his contract are patently absurd. There will come a time when the Patriots will have to make a decision but that will not come until after next season, and everyone with even the most limited understanding of the salary cap knows that. The discussion of whether or not to keep Amendola will be relevant next offseason, it wasn't in the first 3rd of this season and that's one of the biggest reasons so many here, including myself, took such issue with both that and the endless hammering on the topic.

 

[primetime]

Here is something on adductor tears from a peer reviewed journal article: Success of nonoperative management of adduct... [Am J Sports Med. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

Note that 3 to 12 weeks is the 'return to play' range for nonsurgical recovery from an adductor tear, with the mean being 6.1 weeks and standard deviation being 3.1 weeks. Amendola returned in 4 weeks, which means that, on average, three-quarters of players who do not treat this injury with surgery will take longer than Amendola to return.

In addition, they use 'return to play' because they do not have a large enough sample size by position to measure reduced performance, though the author cites studies that have shown that similar injuries do tend to result in reduced performance for an extended time. Note too that the only other WR in the study took 8 weeks to return to action, while those with 3 or 4 week recoveries were linemen, and one safety who did not play another season in the NFL (may have been a special teamer).

There's also the fact that he's been getting open just fine. Unless, of course, we ignore those plays where he was open.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Yes it is!!! If he's going to be a factor this season next Sunday is it.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Nah man that’s not why I said that, I said it because I am considered to be one of Amendola’s biggest critics on this board so if anyone was going look for an opportunity to bash him it would have been someone like me but even as his critic often times I couldn’t find issue with him not making the catch at the end of the Dolphins game. It was not an attempt to express my love for myself it was actually an attempt to make a joke out of myself.

I do agree obsessive compulsive is a better description of me, because the obsessing over self-flaws and mistakes basically kills any self-love off

B6 nobody on this board would say you are a bad guy, and I'd be angry with someone who did. You are a passionate Pats fan, and the only reason any of us read here or write here is because we are as well.

Worrying about Bob Kraft's money is unnecessary, however. The only thing that matters when it comes to a fan's point of view should be the cap implications. If Amendola made a little more money this year than some would like, know that the team they put together is about to go in to Denver and rip their hearts out, and then get in to a fist fight for the Super Bowl. Next year his cap number becomes very team friendly, and there's a good chance he'll outperform it. The team should only get better because of that.

Go Pats!:singing::singing::rocker::singing:

 

[Brady6]

B6 nobody on this board would say you are a bad guy, and I'd be angry with someone who did. You are a passionate Pats fan, and the only reason any of us read here or write here is because we are as well.



Worrying about Bob Kraft's money is unnecessary, however. The only thing that matters when it comes to a fan's point of view should be the cap implications. If Amendola made a little more money this year than some would like, know that the team they put together is about to go in to Denver and rip their hearts out, and then get in to a fist fight for the Super Bowl. Next year his cap number becomes very team friendly, and there's a good chance he'll outperform it. The team should only get better because of that.



Go Pats!:singing::singing::rocker::singing:

Valid point and I appreciate the kind words, I will attempt to keep things in perspective. Thank you for the response it resonated.