The problem with the Patriots is lack of top end talent

[chasa]

... the 'big' part of FA was mostly a bust, half the team's on the shelf, and their best WR is playing for Denver this year.

Once again, since you seem to ignore facts, Julian has better numbers the Wes, ANd the broncos have had a cupcake season.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I agree, on account of the injuries. They're just not a very talented team right now. Who do they have right now that's top-10 at their position in the NFL and healthy? It's basically just Brady, McCourty, Talib (and Talib isn't playing like a top-10 guy since he came back from injury), and Jones. You could make a pretty solid case for Mankins, and an outside case for Ridley/Vereen, but that's just not enough. It's what happens when you lose Wilfork, Mayo, Gronk, Hernandez, and Voller. There isn't a team in the league that can weather that kind of attrition without the end result being that you have a team with average-at-best talent remaining.

The fact that they've won as much as they have is a testament to the quarterbacking, coaching and overall discipline of the team. They're playing exceptionally well for the talent that's on the field, but the talent on the field just isn't good enough to take them deep into the playoffs, from the looks of it.

 

[ralmat55]

Pass defense, pass defense and pass defense. Players have come and gone but the problem remains the same as it has for the last several years. This team can't slow even mediocre quarterbacks and can't get off the field on 3rd down to save their life.

Don't blame Donta Hightower for not being able to cover a RB who weighs 80 lbs less than him one on one; blame the coaches who continually put him and other defenders in similar impossible matchups. Don't blame Chandler Jones for being an inconsistent rusher when in nickel and dime packages he's inside hand fighting with OGs who outweigh him by 60 lbs. rather than attacking off the edge which he does best.

Pass defense is STILL the problem.

 

[Deus Irae]

Welker's position in this offense has not been the issue.

Of course it has. You apparently haven't watched most of the season.

 

[Deus Irae]

Once again, since you seem to ignore facts, Julian has better numbers the Wes, ANd the broncos have had a cupcake season.

You should probably avoid making really silly statements like this. By your metric, Calvin Johnson is not currently one of the ten best receivers in the NFL.

 

[BradyManny]

Of course it has. You apparently haven't watched most of the season.

You got me. I decided to take the year off and haven't seen a game yet. Hope I haven't missed anything exciting.

Deus - Amendola and Edelman have, together, manned Welker's spot. Admittedly, without going back and rewatching games, and seeing who lined up where in which groupings, it's impossible to break down exactly who is responsible for how much production in Welker's position, and to compare that to Welker's production last season. Based on the snaps of late, Edelman has largely taken over the role, and I think you would be hard pressed to argue that we have missed Welker in light of Edelman's play.

There's about 8 million problems this team has faced this year, off the top of my head I can list the following that are far, far, far more pressing than the play at Z-WR:

- Interior OLine play has been awful at times
- OTs have been banged up, or playing poorly
- Move TE in prison
- In line TE (and 2nd best player on the whole squad) out for most of the season, now on IR
- Both starting DTs on IR
- Star LB on IR, the play of his teammates at the position has dipped in his absence
- CB1, 2 & 3 battling injuries
- SS battling injuries

In light of all that, and in light of the combined 1500 yards, 140 yards & 8TDs that Amendola and Edelman have accrued, why would you say losing Welker is the reason for what shortcomings we've had this year?

 

[chasa]

You should probably avoid making really silly statements like this. By your metric, Calvin Johnson is not currently one of the ten best receivers in the NFL.

By my metric Calvin johnson would currently be ranked second behind josh gordon.

I'm kind of confused how you turned Julian having 200 yards more on the season then wes into, that means calvin johnson isnt a top ten reciever.

By my Metric, Julian is 23rd and Welker is 30th. Julian This year is better then wes this year.

Those are facts, not opinions, FACTS his numbers are better Fact. His contract is smaller FACT. who has missed more games this year? welker. recorded drops this year?

Welker: 10
Minitron: 6

Welker was a good slot reciever, but if anything has been proven this year, its that Welker was not some irreplaceable player, as Edelman has replaced him just fine.

If you would like to point out some facts to point to welker being better THIS year, id love to see them

 

[Rob0729]

... the 'big' part of FA was mostly a bust, half the team's on the shelf, and their best WR is playing for Denver this year.

And yet the Pats haven't really missed their best receiver residing in Denver for most of the season.

Now that we are through 14 games, we really can't say that the loss of Welker really impacted this team all that much. He was pretty much replaced. The surprising thing was who replaced him, but Edelman (especially in the last month) has replaced the production of Welker. Maybe Welker play the position slightly better, but Edelman has made his loss almost negligible.

The Pats did not have a great free agency. Granted their second biggest acquisition is on the IR (Tommy Kelly) after leading a relatively injury free career. But the Pats weren't exactly big players in free agency.

Amendola has been a disappointment, but is starting to rebound. But Edelman has replaced Welker anyway.

 

[Rob0729]

You should probably avoid making really silly statements like this. By your metric, Calvin Johnson is not currently one of the ten best receivers in the NFL.

Who cares who is actually the better receiver? This year, there isn't a huge difference between Welker and Edelman. Edelman is putting up about the same numbers you would expect from Wes if he was here. So say he is 95% of what Welker would be, is that all that big of a deal. If what he has done the last month is what he gives for the rest of the season and the playoff, he is giving the Pats 100% of what Welker would give.

I don't really care about who is the actual better WR. Welker wins that one. All I care about is whether Welker's production is replaced with him gone. Edelman is providing that production.

 

[Kontradiction]

Amendola had 10 catches for 131 yards, he was not the problem yesterday.

people need to fudging get over the fact that welker walked away. Holy christ, what a bunch of whiney babies.

Welker this year: 73 catches, 778 yards, 10.7 per 10 tds
Minitron this year: 89 catches, 914 yards, 10.3 per catch, 6 tds

You know why Welker has 4 more Td's and Minitron? Because peyton mannings had the same offensive players the whole ******* season. Plain and simple hes had thomas, decker, welker, and His tight ends all season, healthy. The patriots are playing with their THIRD STRING guys right now.

Austin Collie 3rd/4th string
at the start of the season 3rd string
Missing half the offensive line.


"well if we had welker..."

no just stop Welker was not and is not the long term solution, or answer to our problems.

Badluck, injuries, and some inconsistent pass interference calls this season.

I must have missed the part where I blamed the loss on Amendola. Re-read the post I responded to and try this thing called "thinking" this time around.

 

[chasa]

I must have missed the part where I blamed the loss on Amendola. Re-read the post I responded to and try this thing called "thinking" this time around.

and you must of missed the part where amendola had 130 yards of offense and was smothered on the potential game winning pass. Thats not amendolas fault, thats good defense, and a bad play call.

If you are going to blame one person you might as well blame someone who took points off the board, our kicker. a missed field goal is 3 points we didn't have at the end of the game, and the only person you came blame for it is him.

but yeah blame the dude who moved the chains all day.

 

[Deus Irae]

By my metric Calvin johnson would currently be ranked second behind josh gordon.

I'm kind of confused how you turned Julian having 200 yards more on the season then wes into, that means calvin johnson isnt a top ten reciever.

By my Metric, Julian is 23rd and Welker is 30th. Julian This year is better then wes this year.

Those are facts, not opinions, FACTS his numbers are better Fact. His contract is smaller FACT. who has missed more games this year? welker. recorded drops this year?

Welker: 10
Minitron: 6

Welker was a good slot reciever, but if anything has been proven this year, its that Welker was not some irreplaceable player, as Edelman has replaced him just fine.

If you would like to point out some facts to point to welker being better THIS year, id love to see them

1.) Drops are subjective, as you should know. Edelman, for example, clearly has more than 6 actual drops.

2.) Megatron isn't in the top 10 in receptions. As a receiver, that's the metric. He's clearly not a top 10 receiver, using your ridiculous logic.

3.) You ignore coverages, game plans, injuries and the like in your claim, yet you talk about others ignoring facts.


There's more, but you didn't bother to think your position through before posting, so this is likely to go nowhere. Therefore, this isn't worth continuing. Have a nice day.

 

[chasa]

1.) Drops are subjective, as you should know. Edelman, for example, clearly has more than 6 actual drops.

2.) Megatron isn't in the top 10 in receptions. As a receiver, that's the metric. He's clearly not a top 10 receiver, using your ridiculous logic.

3.) You ignore coverages, game plans, injuries and the like in your claim, yet you talk about others ignoring facts.


There's more, but you didn't bother to think your position through before posting, so this is likely to go nowhere. Therefore, this isn't worth continuing. Have a nice day.

Who said my metric was catches? Why are you telling me what my metric is, when you obviously dont even understand whats being discussed.

Its yards captain oblivious as stated multiple times, Welker has 700, Edelman has 900, Johnson is well over 1100.

So please, again since you seem to ignore facts and just spout nonsense, Point out how Welker this season would be better then edelman?

Oh thats right you cant, Classic douche Makes bold statements, gets proven wrong, instead of fighting for his point says "this is pointless, im right and i dont care about facts, i'm leaving"

 

[Kontradiction]

and you must of missed the part where amendola had 130 yards of offense and was smothered on the potential game winning pass. Thats not amendolas fault, thats good defense, and a bad play call.

If you are going to blame one person you might as well blame someone who took points off the board, our kicker. a missed field goal is 3 points we didn't have at the end of the game, and the only person you came blame for it is him.

but yeah blame the dude who moved the chains all day.

I see you're still not thinking. Let me highlight it for you...

A) Thread topic is "The problem with the Patriots is..."

B) letekro posts that the issue is injuries.

C) I respond by listing key players that have had injuries, which includes Amendola.

I said absolutely nothing about the loss being Amendola's fault. If you believe I did, then you're more than welcome to point it out for me.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

the real problem is gronk shopping in a scooter

 

[chasa]

I see you're still not thinking. Let me highlight it for you...

A) Thread topic is "The problem with the Patriots is..."

B) letekro posts that the issue is injuries.

C) I respond by listing key players that have had injuries, which includes Amendola.

I said absolutely nothing about the loss being Amendola's fault. If you believe I did, then you're more than welcome to point it out for me.

a.) The patriots are 10-4 even if amendola didn't get hurt the team would still be 10-4, at not point this season has amendola cost the patriots a win

b.) the issue is injuries, thats the only issue.

c.) you called amendola out in your first sentence. "The problem is letting Welker go and replacing him with Amendola who then got injured, unfortunately" I went ahead and bolded your own words there, Letting welker go was NOT a problem that has hurt this team. Welker has missed more games this season than edelman, and with the way this season has gone for the patriots had welker stayed he would have gotten a torn something or other.

 

[Deus Irae]

Who said my metric was catches? Why are you telling me what my metric is, when you obviously dont even understand whats being discussed.

Its yards captain oblivious as stated multiple times, Welker has 700, Edelman has 900, Johnson is well over 1100.

So please, again since you seem to ignore facts and just spout nonsense, Point out how Welker this season would be better then edelman?

Oh thats right you cant, Classic douche Makes bold statements, gets proven wrong, instead of fighting for his point says "this is pointless, im right and i dont care about facts, i'm leaving"

Dude, seriously, I tried to end this, because it's a waste of time to continue with someone who's not thinking before posting, as seems to be the case with you. I pointed out some obvious failings on your part. Welker's missed an entire game and significant parts of 2 others because of injury, yet you were claiming the numbers favor Edelman. Well, you must be pointing to raw receiving numbers, because Welker's averaging a higher ypc than Edelman, to go along with his higher TD numbers, and that means that your metric is basically just compiling stats (catches/yards), which obviously don't tell the tale. That's why I noted the Calvin Johnson situation with his reception totals: it highlights the failure of your position.

Just let it go. My original post was innocuous, and was only debatable by people who are insane homers or who conveniently ignored the start of the season. You didn't think before posting, and it killed pretty much every argument you made. Your follow up made it worse. I'm not hanging around for strike three.

 

[manxman2601]

When do Patriot fans get over Welker?

 

[Rob0729]

When do Patriot fans get over Welker?

Based on past history. Around 2017.

 

[chasa]

Dude, seriously, I tried to end this, because it's a waste of time to continue with someone who's not thinking before posting, as seems to be the case with you. I pointed out some obvious failings on your part. Welker's missed an entire game and significant parts of 2 others because of injury, yet you were claiming the numbers favor Edelman. Well, you must be pointing to raw receiving numbers, because Welker's averaging a higher ypc than Edelman, to go along with his higher TD numbers, and that means that your metric is basically just compiling stats (catches/yards), which obviously don't tell the tale. That's why I noted the Calvin Johnson situation with his reception totals: it highlights the failure of your position.

Just let it go. My original post was innocuous, and was only debatable by people who are insane homers or who conveniently ignored the start of the season. You didn't think before posting, and it killed pretty much every argument you made. Your follow up made it worse. I'm not hanging around for strike three.

I'll let it go once everyone stops complaining and saying we let welker go when he chose to leave. Edelman's numbers are comparable and better in every catagory, at less than half the cost.