The OFFICIAL Patriots vs. Saints Post-Game Thread

[Ring 6]

Right that's why it's a defensive penalty. And the purpose of calling the other variety on the OL is to prevent them moving just for the sake of drawing a penalty.

No. Defenders can move, there is no rule against that. If the offensive player moves it is a penalty.
If the official believes he moved in order to protect himself from a defensive player coming at him, then the penalty is charged to the defense.
If the offensive player jumps because seeing the defender move triggered him to move, its an offensive penalty.

Lets put it a different way. It used to be that the defender can move as much and as often as they want and unless they made contact there was no defensive penalty for encroachment. (If they were offsides at the snap the play continues and it is offsides). If an offensive player move the play is dead and it is illegal proceedure.

The rule change was because the offensive player was a sitting duck. A defender could come across and hit him and he couldn't move to defend himself.
The rule change simply allows him to defend himself and since his movement causes a penalty, in that instance alone it is a defensive penalty.
If the LB on the offensive right jumps across and the G on the offensive left moves, it is illegal proceedure on the offense.
Whether the player was protecting himself is the judgment call.
We had one go against us earlier this year when Connolly tried to get one by purposley jumping just because a guy on D did, and the official saw through it.

 

[Ring 6]

The Ex-Ref is referring to the ability to get back prior to the snap as long as contact is not made and there's not a clear path to the QB. That's not applicable here, though, because of the OL movement in response to the Patriots movement.

In YOUR opinion, but not in the opinion of the official.

 

[WhoaDirty]

EDIT: Nevermind, I found a replay.

 

[FoxWhiskey]

The snap is irrelevant, because it's the OL movement that triggered the call. That official should know that.

Right. It was a wrong call.

Mike Pereira ?@MikePereira 21h
Should have been a neutral zone infraction in New England.

Mike Pereira ?@MikePereira 21h
NZI rule. Defense jumps in NZ causing a reaction by the offense.

 

[Deus Irae]

Mike Pereira ?@MikePereira 21h
NZI rule. Defense jumps in NZ causing a reaction by the offense.

Yup.... once that's the issue in question, getting back before the snap doesn't matter.

 

[BradyFTW!]

In YOUR opinion, but not in the opinion of the official.

It's also Pereira's opinion, and it's the correct one. It should be pretty clear to any unbiased observer that the Pats got away with with a neutral zone infraction on that play. Sometimes bad calls benefit you, and we were lucky to get a really beneficial one there.

 

[robbomango]

Well, you missed the replay. Clearly hit the ground.

Either way coaches can challenge those calls, if it was that obvious Payton should'v challenged it.

EDIT: I actually missed the play and caught the replay, looked like the ball was on Hooman's shoe but I'm watching a crapy stream so not always so clear.

 

[BradyFTW!]

No. Defenders can move, there is no rule against that. If the offensive player moves it is a penalty.
If the official believes he moved in order to protect himself from a defensive player coming at him, then the penalty is charged to the defense.
If the offensive player jumps because seeing the defender move triggered him to move, its an offensive penalty.

Lets put it a different way. It used to be that the defender can move as much and as often as they want and unless they made contact there was no defensive penalty for encroachment. (If they were offsides at the snap the play continues and it is offsides). If an offensive player move the play is dead and it is illegal proceedure.

The rule change was because the offensive player was a sitting duck. A defender could come across and hit him and he couldn't move to defend himself.
The rule change simply allows him to defend himself and since his movement causes a penalty, in that instance alone it is a defensive penalty.
If the LB on the offensive right jumps across and the G on the offensive left moves, it is illegal proceedure on the offense.
Whether the player was protecting himself is the judgment call.
We had one go against us earlier this year when Connolly tried to get one by purposley jumping just because a guy on D did, and the official saw through it.

The exact text can be found in Rule 7, Section 4, Article 4 of the rulebook:



You're right that that's the rule, but that's exactly what happened in the game:

Saints vs. Patriots 10-13-2013 - Bad False Start Call (just one of many bad calls) - YouTube

That's pretty much textbook NFI. Vellano going into the neutral zone induced Evans to move, and it appeared that it was in response to impending contact. The refs made the wrong call, and, since Saints fans have a collective persecution complex that's rivaled only by Ravens and Jets fans, they latched onto missed call that hurt them as proof that the league is out to get them. That's ridiculous, but let's not overreact to it by trying to rewrite history and claim that we didn't benefit from any bad calls. We did, and they did too.

 

[DaBruinz]

This post looks like something someone who had gave up on his team would post. McDaniels really needs to stop abandoning the parts of the game plan that work. Line the RUNNING GAME. Ridley was doing excellent and, instead of running the ball during when they were down by 1, they went with 4 straight passing attempts and got nothing. Also, the passing plays that they gave Brady stunk during that drive.

Mayo, Talib and Amendola getting hurt isn't good. The play where Amendola received the concussion, Bush should have been flagged because he led with his helmet and hit, helmet to helmet, which is against the rules this year.

The pass-blocking for Brady was bad and got worse when Cannon went in. Not sure what the deal was with him but he blew one so badly that it led directly to the Brady sack. The game was NOT over at the point. You STARTED the tread and this was your second post. ******* bandwagoner. Your type of fans make me sick, enjoy the Pats win.

Bandwagoner? *ROFLMAO* I've been following this team since you were in diapers, but I a bandwagoner now? because I put up some comments that were fresh on my mind while I was AT MY COMPUTER WATCHING THE GAME??

Seriously, That post was nothing more than simple comments on the game. If you are so pessimistic that you took it as me giving up on the team then YOU are the issue, not me.

Do yourself a favor and learn the difference between giving up on the team and people just making comments on the game. It would help you actually be a decent poster instead of some schmuck who spews off like an imbecile.

 

[DaBruinz]

So they got away with a delay of game and that is somehow something that favors the Patriots? It was hiked when he went to do the TO anyway if you look at it. The attempted TO was after the clock ran out.

A delay of game call would have over-road the interception. Are you really complaining?

 

[DaBruinz]

Off the top of my head, they didn't give Brees a TO that he was clearly calling for, they gave Hooman a catch that clearly hit the ground, and they called a false start on a pivotal 4th and 1 that was pretty clearly a NFI against the Pats. But again, that's just part of the game. Every team has games where they get the calls and games where they get screwed, and there isn't much of anything that the team can do about it. Hopefully Pats fans remember this game next time a couple calls go against us, and refrain from claiming some cast anti-Pats conspiracy exists.

They didn't call Foster for lining up in the Neutral Zone on the play where he took down Bolden on the 3rd and 4 call from the New Orleans 4. It's why he was able to blow by the TE and OT so easily..

The catch by Hoomanawanui sure looked like it was off the top of his shoe.

I agree with you on the False start call against N.O. the Refs got it wrong.

That being said, New Orleans also didn't get called for the OPI on the 14 yard completion early in the 2nd where Stills clearly had two hands on Arrington preventing Arrington from getting into position to make the play..

 

[DaBruinz]

Pretty sure it was before that play, in fact I think it was the first play from scrimmage. Was the game already in progress when your affiliate switched over? If so, you probably missed it.

Yes. it was in progress.. And if he legitimately dropped that one, then I apologize.

 

[DaBruinz]

Pretty sure you're right - he had a sack earlier in the game, then I thought he had another on 3rd and 7 to get the pats the ball back

It only counts as a sack if the QB is still inside the tackle box. Otherwise, it just goes down as a tackle for loss.

 

[DaBruinz]

The Brees non-TO was not an officiating blunder. The false start was, though, no question. The officials also got the call/non calls correct on the "hit to the head" plays.

No they didn't. Replay clearly showed Amendola getting hit in the side of the helmet by Bush's helmet. Amendola had lowered his shoulder and turned his head in an attempt to take the hit on his shoulder, but Bush lowered his helmet hit Amendola in the side of the head. The new rules for this year flatly state that the defender can't do that.

 

[DaBruinz]

The question was how many drops are acceptable not how many he dropped. I don't think any drops are acceptable and there's no doubt that both Dobson and Thompkins have dropped balls they should have caught.

But I'm not ready to say it's time to talk Deion Branch out of his Florida retirement community over it.

People seem to forget that Deion Branch and David Givens both needed a full season with Brady to get over the "drops" and earn his confidence.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

I want to ask here: Didn't we sign Adrian Wilson, the aging safety who was solid in ARI?

Is he IR, cut, or buried in the chart? I know we constantly move guys around and he is old, but outside of some few hits and picks Steve Gregory isn't anything special IMO.

 

[manxman2601]

People seem to forget that Deion Branch and David Givens both needed a full season with Brady to get over the "drops" and earn his confidence.

I have to think the ball gets to you a little bit quicker when Brady's throwing you the ball than whomever the Marshall QB is. Have to think that, if nothing else, muscle memory needs some time to adjust.

 

[manxman2601]

I want to ask here: Didn't we sign Adrian Wilson, the aging safety who was solid in ARI?

Is he IR, cut, or buried in the chart? I know we constantly move guys around and he is old, but outside of some few hits and picks Steve Gregory isn't anything special IMO.

He's on IR.

 

[BradyFTW!]

They didn't call Foster for lining up in the Neutral Zone on the play where he took down Bolden on the 3rd and 4 call from the New Orleans 4. It's why he was able to blow by the TE and OT so easily..

The catch by Hoomanawanui sure looked like it was off the top of his shoe.

I agree with you on the False start call against N.O. the Refs got it wrong.

That being said, New Orleans also didn't get called for the OPI on the 14 yard completion early in the 2nd where Stills clearly had two hands on Arrington preventing Arrington from getting into position to make the play..

Oh yeah, there were definitely bad calls both ways. We got more of them, but it's never as one-sided as the losing team would have you believe. They could've called OPI on Stills several times, including on the go-ahead touchdown.

Has anyone seen a screenshot of the Hoomanawanui? I was 100% sure that it bounced off the turf when I watched it, but enough people are sure that it was a legit catch that I'm becoming curious.

 

[BradyFTW!]

No they didn't. Replay clearly showed Amendola getting hit in the side of the helmet by Bush's helmet. Amendola had lowered his shoulder and turned his head in an attempt to take the hit on his shoulder, but Bush lowered his helmet hit Amendola in the side of the head. The new rules for this year flatly state that the defender can't do that.

It's only a foul if Bush hits Amendola with the crown of his helmet, I believe (which he didn't do).