PFF: The Pats OL is damn good

[Spiral]

Tackles: Outstanding
Guards: Average to slightly better than average (the Left one is vastly overpaid)
Center: Alarm bells

Is anyone else noticing a lack of communication or chemistry between Solder and Mankins? Seems like there are many mixups, especially in pass-pro, IMO.

WRT PFF, I respect the opinion of a number of posters on this site more highly than PFF.

 

[JackBauer]

Tackles: Outstanding
Guards: Average to slightly better than average (the Left one is vastly overpaid)
Center: Alarm bells

Mankins is a quality player. Not sure how his salary is relevant.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

And the reality is that elite DL almost always beat elite OL. It's not just the Patriots who struggle so mightily. And really, would we even be having this conversation if two years ago Welker holds onto that catch in the Super Bowl? All of a sudden the OL would go from a constant topic of complaints by fans into a non-discussion.

Yep, and with Brady's lack of mobility out of the pocket, I think its emphasized more during the game.

 

[patsfan-1982]

And the reality is that elite DL almost always beat elite OL. It's not just the Patriots who struggle so mightily. And really, would we even be having this conversation if two years ago Welker holds onto that catch in the Super Bowl? All of a sudden the OL would go from a constant topic of complaints by fans into a non-discussion.

I great pass rusher averages about 1 sack per game 16 per season on a average of about 30 pass att per game so he is rushing the QB 30 times a game and if he gets one he is Elite...so the reality is that even a bad OL wins almost always, its like baseball a guy batting 300 ( failing 70% of the time ) is a great hitter

 

[supafly]

Well, part of Denver's success is that they haven't faced a front like what we're talking about. Also, Welker was on the team when we played Seattle and San Francisco (I'll give him a pass since the Edelman experiment was at full tilt against BAL and ARI); we still had issues with protection.

I know a lot of people want to be upset about Welker, but maybe, just maybe, BB would have hurried to get Welker back in if his horoscope, at any point in February, said one of your best receivers is a sociopath and a murderer. I can't fault BB for not having a crystal ball, and the Welker-Amendola straight swap carried risks on both sides.

While I agree that DEN hasn't faced top notch defensive competition, one can see pretty easily that Manning is getting rid of the ball in a very quick timeframe.

I understand your argument against the unknown regarding Hernandez's situation prior to it happening, but one can also make a pretty strong argument that Belichick was well aware of the situation at the end of June. Not only that, he was also well aware of the fact that he probably wouldn't have Gronkowski for at least 1/4 or more of the season too.

Obtaining another receiving option prior to training camp starting would have gone a long way. Since it didn't happen, we can't complain too much, but it's certainly a notable criticism. Hopefully we can make some progress and possibly get to the comfort level that Manning is currently at with his offense by the end of the season. If this does indeed happen, we may actually have the upper hand if our defense continues on this path.

 

[cavtroop]

I great pass rusher averages about 1 sack per game 16 per season on a average of about 30 pass att per game so he is rushing the QB 30 times a game and if he gets one he is Elite...so the reality is that even a bad OL wins almost always, its like baseball a guy batting 300 ( failing 70% of the time ) is a great hitter

Playing devil's advocate here - say a team has an 'elite' DL - that's averaging 4 sacks a game, and another 4 hurries or so. Out of your 30 dropbacks, that's a 25% or better 'disruption' rate and that doesn't include DB/LB blitzes etc. Still holds up for your baseball analogy though.

 

[crawhammer]

The OL was hot garbage against the Bengals. Expect more of the same against the Saints. Between the OL, the inept receiving corps and McDaniels' play calling, Brady may be heading to the IR after this game.

 

[Harrisoned!]

This is completely wrong.

Oh, I'm glad you're provided some supporting evidence for your claim.

 

[Harrisoned!]

I great pass rusher averages about 1 sack per game 16 per season on a average of about 30 pass att per game so he is rushing the QB 30 times a game and if he gets one he is Elite...so the reality is that even a bad OL wins almost always, its like baseball a guy batting 300 ( failing 70% of the time ) is a great hitter

That's ridiculous. A pass rush doesn't fail if they do not sack the QB every play. Brady was only sacked 3 times against the Bengals - do you think they failed to do their job?

My point is that if you asked me to pick an all-time great DL or an all-time great OL, give me the defensive line 10 times out of 10.

 

[Deus Irae]

Oh, I'm glad you're provided some supporting evidence for your claim.

There really wasn't any need to. As others have pointed out, it's not as if the battles are even close. The OL wins far more often than the DL.

 

[Harrisoned!]

No, the problem is that PFF blows and you're citing it in a weak attempt to bolster your lousy argument.

• Brady's quick release has always aided the line's weakest links
• Brady needing to hold the ball longer is exposing the Wendell/Connolly duo, who are the weak links
• Connolly and Wendell are not starter quality players at their current positions but....
• Dante is such an excellent line coach that he makes non-starters capable of playing within the system until they reach the point of simply being overmatched
• Opponents know where the Patriots are weak and will continue to exploit that area

None of the above needs PFF's garbage to bolster it.

While Brady has a fairly quick release, it is not truly elite like Manning. That's not necessarily a bad thing - hanging in the pocket can open up plays downfield. You don't want a Roethlisberger/Bledsoe situation where they are holding it so long they get pummeled, but there is value in a balance.

That said, it's not just Brady getting it out quickly - for one, Brady had the benefit of Welker and Hernandez, maybe the two best short-area receivers in the NFL. And two, the OL gave him all kinds of time to throw last year - I cant find the link, but he led the NFL in number of pass plays where he had more than 3.5 seconds to throw. 4 seconds is an interminable amount of time in the NFL. It's not just Brady - it's the receivers and it's the OL.

As for Scarnecchia, he is a good coach but they guy is not a Jedi. He can't go out there and force a guy to win a one on one battle. And when it comes down to it, offensive line performance really comes down to beating the guy in front of you. Scar puts guys in positions to succeed, but they still must execute. By and large, the Pats linemen execute. Connolly and Wendell execute less often - not a surprise; there's a reason they were nobodies in the draft and Solder/Mankins/Vollmer were top 60 picks.

Your somewhat bizarre hatred of PFF is blinding the fact that this Patriots OL is very, very good. I am still waiting for a list of 5 lines that you'd take over the Patriots.

 

[Harrisoned!]

There really wasn't any need to. As others have pointed out, it's not as if the battles are even close. The OL wins far more often than the DL.

Of course they do. The fundamentalist, literalist view you are taking on my comment is ridiculous. My point is that when an elite OL faces an elite DL, more often the elite DL makes the elite OL play worse than they do on average. It's back to the old adage of defense winning championships. That's not a fluke.

 

[captain stone]

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2013 OFFENSIVE LINES

Strange, the Pats OL ranks 5th in runs inside/over the Guards, but is below-average
in runs outside the Tackles and over RT. This might be partly explained by the lack
of anything resembling outside speed by our current RBs.